Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

First Level Retraining Question


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

51 to 96 of 96 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Woohoo though i don't have one its good to know if I ever get one.

Andoran **

Awesome, thank you for the info! :)

**

Awesome thanks mike!

Qadira **** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

Although I was arguing the other side of this, I'm actually happier with doing it this way. Thanks, Mike!

Shadow Lodge

As a new PFS player this option couldn't have come at a better time. I settled on a character I ended up feeling lukewarm about because I hadn't yet owned the right books to make what I was originally planning. Now I do, so it's nice not to have to start completely over so soon.

How do I make proper record of the changes made?

Does changing faction (as part of the retrain) reflect on the Sessions history for that character, or will he still provide points to Andoran for the First Steps scenarios played?

I'm not sure if that second one matters much to me overall, I've just been wondering.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

I had several new players that were quite happy to learn about the retraining ability. One was playing rogue pregen and mentioned he likes spell casters, but doesn't like having to prep spells, so I told him of the sorcerer and that really peaked his interest.

Qadira **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
CEBedford wrote:

As a new PFS player this option couldn't have come at a better time. I settled on a character I ended up feeling lukewarm about because I hadn't yet owned the right books to make what I was originally planning. Now I do, so it's nice not to have to start completely over so soon.

How do I make proper record of the changes made?

Does changing faction (as part of the retrain) reflect on the Sessions history for that character, or will he still provide points to Andoran for the First Steps scenarios played?

I'm not sure if that second one matters much to me overall, I've just been wondering.

It doesn't change automatically in the history, but you could email your venture caption with the event # and explain you've done a 1st level rebuild and ask him/her to change factions for you.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

Or you could just tell me and I can change it... ;) See ya Thursday Chris?

Qadira **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Or you could just tell me and I can change it... ;) See ya Thursday Chris?

Yep. That works, too. :)

Shadow Lodge

Yep, I will be there. :)

Grand Lodge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.

A question came up at a gameday yesterday on when 1st level reatraining can be used. My impression was that at it could occur at any point prior to playing a module as a second level character, but the opposing point of view was that once you had accumulated 3 XP (2nd level), you could no longer retrain. Can I take your post here to indicate that my interpretation is accurate?

Andoran ***

Per the retrain rules, you can retrain your PC as long as it has not acquired more than 3 XP (been played as a second level PC).

Qadira ****

kinevon wrote:
Per the retrain rules, you can retrain your PC as long as it has not acquired more than 3 XP (been played as a second level PC).

"has not acquired more than 3 XP"

and
"been played as a second level PC"

can be two different things.

For Example:
the PC plays First Steps 1&2 and as it's 3rd adventure plays Crypt of the Everflame. Result, it has never played as second level, and yet has 5XP (more than 3XP).

I THINK this character can still be re-built. IMHO.

Andoran ***

I would agree, since it meets the exact wording.

More problematical would be the "played the PC through First Steps, then GMed a bunch of games for credit which I also put on this PC." Talk about a PC in flux....

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

The guide says:

Quote:
Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number. Changes may only be made between adventures and before beginning play as a 2nd-level character.

...so a character that's gone from 2XP to 5XP by playing a module can be rebuilt before being played as a 2nd-level PC, even by the strictest reading of the rules.

GM credit shouldn't disallow the rebuild, as long as everything's finalised before the PC is played for the first time when above 1st-level. However, I'd make sure that the PC's faction was finalised before reporting any GM chronicles.

Andoran **

Michael Brock wrote:
Sell back the gear at full price and buy new gear.

What about chronicle purchases?

I can see this completely hosing up a character's chronicle info as far as gold goes... at least on their first few chronicles...

Is the assumption that really only the first chronicle at level 2 is permanent?

Basically should they list nothing on their chronicle until their first one at level 2 with their starting gold equal to all the gold they have earned up until that point?
That is a cool option... but it makes the paperwork messy... The rule in the guide does seem to be very specific about 'you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number.'

Andoran ***

Blackfoot wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Sell back the gear at full price and buy new gear.

What about chronicle purchases?

I can see this completely hosing up a character's chronicle info as far as gold goes... at least on their first few chronicles...

Is the assumption that really only the first chronicle at level 2 is permanent?

Basically should they list nothing on their chronicle until their first one at level 2 with their starting gold equal to all the gold they have earned up until that point?
That is a cool option... but it makes the paperwork messy... The rule in the guide does seem to be very specific about 'you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number.'

Well, that's where a "special" Chronicle would come in handy.

Something like the blank sample Chronicle that used to live in the Guide a few iterations back, which you could then fill out a Chronicle X.5 (1.5, 2.5 and/or 3.5) to represent the retraining option, and log the changes to the PC, including showing any and all gear sold back at full price.

For me, at least, along with the PFS number for the PC, I will usually keep the name, faction, and anything bought using PP, like a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. Anything else will be subject to change without notice, as some purchase agreements run.

Heck, I am on one first level PC who is on his second build, and I am not sure I should keep it, First build was a sniper rogue. Ugh. Second build is a Strength-based longspear vanilla rogue using Gang Up. We had an ideal (for my rogue) group including two other melee types, so my rogue was getting the flank bonus almost every round, and adding his sneak attack when he hit. And his to-hit is not too far off of a fighter's at this point. +5/+7 to hit, 1d8+6+1d6 damage when he hit. At this level, that makes him not too far off the damage of that Power Attacking Barbarian...

I felt a bit guilty, since I was getting a significant portion of the killing blows during the game. Hard to judge, really, for me. I did ask, and everyone else seemed to think my rogue was okay. ::shrug::

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Blackfoot wrote:

What about chronicle purchases?

I can see this completely hosing up a character's chronicle info as far as gold goes... at least on their first few chronicles...

How so?

When doing a rebuild:
- Record any item being sold off in the 'items sold/conditions gained' box on the chronicle sheet, going on to the back of the sheet if you run out of space. Record the full total (NOT halved) in the small 'items sold' box in the 'GOLD' section of the sheet.

- Record any new purchases in the large 'items bought/conditions cleared' box on the chronicle sheet, going on to the back of the sheet if you run out of space. Record the total in the small 'items bought' box in the 'GOLD' section of the sheet as normal.

I don't see the issue.

Andoran **

Paz wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:

What about chronicle purchases?

I can see this completely hosing up a character's chronicle info as far as gold goes... at least on their first few chronicles...

How so?

When doing a rebuild:
- Record any item being sold off in the 'items sold/conditions gained' box on the chronicle sheet, going on to the back of the sheet if you run out of space. Record the full total (NOT halved) in the small 'items sold' box in the 'GOLD' section of the sheet.

- Record any new purchases in the large 'items bought/conditions cleared' box on the chronicle sheet, going on to the back of the sheet if you run out of space. Record the total in the small 'items bought' box in the 'GOLD' section of the sheet as normal.

I don't see the issue.

True enough. I suppose there won't be too many chronicles where they are clearing out a huge list of starting junk that they didn't realize they didn't actually need to purchase... or may that can be listed on the back with a total or something when it runs over the space available. :)

Actually.. I guess what items are sold doesn't really matter... it's just the total coin that's the issue so it could be listed as 'all starting gear retrained' and then the total amount or something.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I just wrote everything up on a piece of paper and wrote "see attached" on the third chronicle.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Jiggy wrote:
I just wrote everything up on a piece of paper and wrote "see attached" on the third chronicle.

Similarly, I did the same but wrote it in a post-it note and slapped that on the third chronicle.

*

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that since you're selling back equipment and buying it anew, if you bought any wands with PP, and especially if those wands had any charges used, you don't get to sell those back? So if your wizard/sorcerer got a wand of burning hands (for example) and then you decide "Hey, I want to be a Ranger, they sound cool!" you may be a ranger who has inherited a stick of "Anyone in the group know how to make this doo-hickey shoot fire?"

Andoran ***

1st-Level Character Retraining wrote:
Pathfinder Society is all about player choices and living with those choices once you’ve made them. However, at the start of a Pathfinder’s career, you are allowed to adjust your character before settling in for the long haul. Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number. Changes may only be made between adventures and before beginning play as a 2nd-level character. Any exceptions will be noted in the Pathfinder Society FAQ. You are able to keep all treasure, Prestige Points, special boons, and XP that you have earned and apply them to a character once you retrain as long as it meets the criteria above.

Since the only thing that is required to remain the same is the PFS PC number, that sounds like any PP purchases made before retraining can be retrained, as well.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
nosig wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Per the retrain rules, you can retrain your PC as long as it has not acquired more than 3 XP (been played as a second level PC).

"has not acquired more than 3 XP"

and
"been played as a second level PC"

can be two different things.

For Example:
the PC plays First Steps 1&2 and as it's 3rd adventure plays Crypt of the Everflame. Result, it has never played as second level, and yet has 5XP (more than 3XP).

I THINK this character can still be re-built. IMHO.

You are equating text inside parenthesis with text following the word "and". I have three issues with this:

1. It is my understanding that parenthesis qualify the contents as less important than the text outside them. Also, that the enclosed text is not required for the sentence to convey it's meaning, only that the text serves to clarify or explain what is meant by the primary text.

2. The word "and" is used to link two equal and required thoughts. So in using "and" one requires both conditions to be met. I believe the word you are looking for is "or" since your example (using "and") fails the first requirement (has not acquired more than 3 XP).

3. The actual rule you refer to is:

PFSOP Guide 4.2, page 10, 1st-Level Character Retraining wrote:
... Changes may only be made between adventures and before beginning play as a 2nd-level character. ...

There is no mention of having more than 3 XP. Based on this text, it is clear that playing through a module as a level 1 PC and having 4 or 5 XP before playing as a 2nd-level PC, retraining is still allowed.

Cheliax **

Suppose, then, that a PC receives his third point of XP. His next chronicle sheet is GM credit from a sanctioned module, granting his fourth, fifth and sixth points of XP. The PC is then played for the first time since being 1st level, now as a 3rd-level PC. Having not yet "[begun] play as a 2nd-level character" the PC is still allowed to retrain. The condition is still fulfilled at 4th level, 5th, and so on, since the PC has never been played as a 2nd-level character.

The PC can be retrained infinitely.

Obviously I mean none of this.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Grammar Nazi wrote:

Suppose, then, that a PC receives his third point of XP. His next chronicle sheet is GM credit from a sanctioned module, granting his fourth, fifth and sixth points of XP. The PC is then played for the first time since being 1st level, now as a 3rd-level PC. Having not yet "[begun] play as a 2nd-level character" the PC is still allowed to retrain. The condition is still fulfilled at 4th level, 5th, and so on, since the PC has never been played as a 2nd-level character.

The PC can be retrained infinitely.

Obviously I mean none of this.

Obviously "or higher" is implied in the sentence:

Changes may only be made between adventures and before beginning play as a 2nd-level (or higher) character.

EDIT: yeah, I noticed that after reading the post again and made the edit. I was kinda hoping no one had noticed yet.

Cheliax **

"Or higher."

Grand Lodge ****

kinevon wrote:
Since the only thing that is required to remain the same is the PFS PC number, that sounds like any PP purchases made before retraining can be retrained, as well.

If you've used any of the wand, the wand is yours. You can't sell a wand back with 33 charges left.

If you want to retrain, don't spend any of your Prestige of consumables before you do it.

Osirion

Seven ... Try thinking of it as that there is nothing being "sold". It is simply being changed. In a way, it's as it never happened. If a character buys something, it can be changed so that they never spent the PP.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I could be wrong, but I think it was already clarified that used (or partially-used) consumables couldn't be sold back. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Can't seem to find a link. Anyone have one?

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Don Walker wrote:
EDIT: yeah, I noticed that after reading the post again and made the edit. I was kinda hoping no one had noticed yet.

There is no escape from the Grammar Nazi.

Jiggy wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think it was already clarified that used (or partially-used) consumables couldn't be sold back. I'll see if I can find it.

I agree with your recollection Jiggy. I'll see if I can find it.

Plus, since the retrain rules say you get to "sell back for full value" all items, and items purchased with PP have no value, it would make sense you can't swap them.

*

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Lord Goldhelm wrote:

Mike Brock wrote:
the Diviner wrote:


If I decide to change my synthesist into something other than an Summoner, am I capable of selling the wand I have used charges of?
No, it is partially used and that ship has sailed. I suggest saving it for use by fellow Pathfinders at your table.

This is on the comments to the blog post announcing Guide 4.2, which announced lvl 1 retrains, but also had a lot of hubbub regarding newly-restricted archetypes.

I'm fairly certain this applies to pre-2nd-level-play retrains as well.

Osirion

Well, there is a very distinct possibility that my previous post is fraught with conjecture, and that I am prone to wild inaccuracy.
;)

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
W. Kristoph Nolen wrote:

Seven ... Try thinking of it as that there is nothing being "sold". It is simply being changed. In a way, it's as it never happened. If a character buys something, it can be changed so that they never spent the PP.

Sorry, but even if there is nothing left of the old PC after a "1st-level retraining", they still have their XP, gold, and partially used items. The risks they've taken and the resources they've used to earn those things HAS happened and must be respected in the rebuild.

Osirion

Don ...I didn't say there was nothing left, I said there was nothing being sold.

But, I think at you're missing my point. I was drawing a correlation, which was solely referring to equipment and PP, and beyond that, in the post directly before yours I said that my post likely contained wild inaccuracy (because I was unaware the issue had been clarified elsewhere/else-when).

Grand Lodge *** Venture-Captain, Idaho—Twin Falls aka Rendrin

What about spent Prestige Points, are those spent refunded like money if you retrain before your 4th XP?

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

PP are definitely not refunded if they're spent on a service which has been used, or item which has been consumed (partially or totally).

I'm not sure what happens if the PP have been spent on an item which is still fully intact. Did you have an example in mind?

Grand Lodge *** Venture-Captain, Idaho—Twin Falls aka Rendrin

Well, I purchased a Wand of Cure Light Wounds for 2 PP; it still has all 50 charges. I then ran a scenario that let me purchase one with GP and I am wanting to use GP instead of PP for the WoCLW (needed more acronyms). Also, there are some things you buy with PP that are faction specific, such as titles.

Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.

Sorry to bring this back up, since it seemed like a simple answer. Does it matter if the race boon wasn't received until after the 3rd credit? (But before playing at second level)

****

thistledown wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.
Sorry to bring this back up, since it seemed like a simple answer. Does it matter if the race boon wasn't received until after the 3rd credit? (But before playing at second level)

That should be fine.

****

Mike Lindner wrote:
thistledown wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.
Sorry to bring this back up, since it seemed like a simple answer. Does it matter if the race boon wasn't received until after the 3rd credit? (But before playing at second level)
That should be fine.

For the sake of completeness, see the official ruling allowing this here.

This and many other questions can be answered by perusing the Compilation of message board clarifications for PFS Rulings thread.

Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's what led me to here.

Cheliax *

Michael Brock wrote:
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.

Can you rebuild "out" of a race boon? I'm not talking about removing it from the PFS Character #, just rebuilding into a different race. I have a Tengu I ran through Quest for Perfection way back when and I just wasn't feeling the character or playing a Tengu in general, so haven't played him since.

I'm fine with the Chronicle being nulled/wasted as part of this.


bdk86 wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.

Can you rebuild "out" of a race boon? I'm not talking about removing it from the PFS Character #, just rebuilding into a different race. I have a Tengu I ran through Quest for Perfection way back when and I just wasn't feeling the character or playing a Tengu in general, so haven't played him since.

I'm fine with the Chronicle being nulled/wasted as part of this.

Tengu is an available to all race so I don't see any problem.

Andoran **** Venture-Captain, Washington—Seattle aka The Great Rinaldo!

Considering that part of level 1 retraining includes changing race, I see no reason you can't retrain away from a race you had used a boon on if you just aren't feeling it.

As to whether you could take the boon back to use on a different character, I suspect the answer would be "no", but can't give you an official answer.

Qadira **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Tony Lindman wrote:
As to whether you could take the boon back to use on a different character, I suspect the answer would be "no", but can't give you an official answer.

Your suspicion is correct.

The official answer was given on Page 1.

51 to 96 of 96 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Society® / General Discussion / First Level Retraining Question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.