Sikh temple shooting


Off-Topic Discussions

Liberty's Edge

we don't have a thread for this yet?

Did I miss it?

anyway it's pretty terrible like wow f$@*


It's sad, and also incomprehensible to me. In my experience, Sikhs are one of the least offensive religious groups around. Did the gunman think they were Muslims?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

This pisses me off to no end.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Did the gunman think they were Muslims?

Considering the fact that one of the derogatory epithets towards Muslims is "towelheads," one could easily see a link where some ignorant knucklehead could think just that, given the traditional Sikh head wear.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
Did the gunman think they were Muslims?

Until yesterday, a lot of reporters seemed to be under the impression that Sikhs=Muslims too.

Not that this in anyway condones violence against Muslims. Or any religious group.

Or people in general.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
Did the gunman think they were Muslims?

Probably, and it's bullshit. Not only are Sikhs not Muslim, it wouldn't make them the enemy if they were. Look at Indonesia. The biggest Muslim country around, and they haven't blown up any Americans, nor do they seem inclined to.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Sikhs are pretty bad-ass, when you look into their beliefs.
Pop culture reference, Captain nemo in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was portrayed as a Sikh.
It angers me greatly that an ignorant troubled wretch would go after folks, but even more so that he got thew wrong folks based on an assumption. They don't even look arabic!
They are also, Israelis aside, the last group on Earth I would want to decide to go after anyone to avenge a slight. They wouldn't, of course, but still.

Sovereign Court

I've met unpleasant sikhs; I think they're as diverse as every other religious/ethnic/whatever group.

I think it is one of the limitations of my imagination that I cannot even begin to understand choosing to kill other people, I find the idea of deliberately doing harm to others profoundly unsettling (although I do recognise that there are times when it might be necessary) and although I can begin to get into the mindset of bullies, fundamentalists and all kinds of unpleasant sorts... I just can't understand how a human being could cross that line and shoot/stab/detonate/whatever. Maybe that's why some commit suicide?

I guess this is one of those things we will have to wait for more information about.

Silver Crusade

Two temple goers and the first officer to arrive on the scene, who was shot while trying to help one of the wounded, are still in critical condition.


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If anyone would like to send a message to the Sikh community, you can do it here:

Sikh Solidarity

The organizer of Groundswell is a good pal of mine and will deliver the messages personally. I had the honor of scoring her film about hate crimes against Sikhs after 9/11. Yep, they are often, and sometimes tragically, mistaken for Muslims.

My experience with American Sikhs is that they are generally super nice and welcoming, and cook amazing food. Of course, no community is homogenous and it would be a disservice to generalize any group.

The Exchange

My beliefs are very close to theirs, i have considered converting.

Sikhs are an amazingly generous folk, they are not a large population near me but make serious charity donations to the community


Kirth Gersen wrote:
It's sad, and also incomprehensible to me. In my experience, Sikhs are one of the least offensive religious groups around. Did the gunman think they were Muslims?

Probably. You really don't expect people that crazy to put anything into knowledge: religion.


Apparently the shooter was quite involved in white supremacy groups.
Link


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Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Did the gunman think they were Muslims?
Probably, and it's b+*~$@~%. Not only are Sikhs not Muslim, it wouldn't make them the enemy if they were. Look at Indonesia. The biggest Muslim country around, and they haven't blown up any Americans, nor do they seem inclined to.

Agree that attacking Sikhs because thinking they are Muslims is BS

Agree that being Muslim does not make people our enemy.

Disagree on Indonesian Muslims not being inclined to kill Americans.

Remember the Bali bombing? Seven Americans dead at the hand of Muslim terrorists who bombed the night clubs to attack foreigners (i.e. Americans among others). This was related to Jemaah Islamiyah (terrorist group)

Just pointing out that there is some serious Islamic terrorism going on in that region. US work after the tsunami (Aceh held one of Jemaah Islamiyah's training camps) has done some to mitigate its spread, but it is still a terrorism hotbed.

But, reiterating again, Muslim or Sikh, makes no difference. No justification, this never should have happened.


GentleGiant wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Did the gunman think they were Muslims?
Considering the fact that one of the derogatory epithets towards Muslims is "towelheads," one could easily see a link where some ignorant knucklehead could think just that, given the traditional Sikh head wear.

I copy/pasted this from a cnn article;

According to a man who described himself as an old Army buddy of Page's, the attacker talked about "racial holy war" when they served together in the 1990s. Christopher Robillard of Oregon, who said he lost contact with Page more than a decade ago, added that when Page would rant, "it would be about mostly any non-white person."

"He didn't seem like the type of person to go out and hurt people," Robillard said. "He would talk about it all the time, but it was more like he was waiting for the ... revolution to start."

here's the CNN story


also, from the same article;

The first person murdered in retaliation for the 9/11 attacks was a Sikh -- Balbir Singh Sodhi, a gas station owner in Mesa, Arizona. He was shot five times by aircraft mechanic Frank Roque on September 15, 2001. Roque is serving a life sentence.

In the intervening years, the Sikh Coalition, a New York-based advocacy group, reported more than 700 attacks or bias-related incidents.


My heart goes out to the families of the victims.

Its a bit too early to get a handle on a motive, let them bury their dead first.
In my opinion he knew the difference between Muslims and Sikhs.


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Whether he understood anything about their religion or not, he obviously targeted them on the basis of race, so religion is probably secondary. Another disturbed individual leaving tragedy in his wake.


Shadowborn wrote:
Whether he understood anything about their religion or not, he obviously targeted them on the basis of race, so religion is probably secondary. Another disturbed individual leaving tragedy in his wake.

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

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Aretas wrote:

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

He's a self-described white supremacist. He shot a bunch of non-white people at worship.

Where's the big mystery?


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Despite my lack of belief in the validity of the term "terrorism", I am glad this is being labeled as domestic terrorism.

The mass majority of acts that could be considered terrorist are committed by white Christians in the US, not Muslims, and the media needs to start making sure people know this so some of this crazy fear mongering can end.


Fleshgrinder wrote:
The mass majority of acts that could be considered terrorist are committed by white Christians in the US, not Muslims

True, but there are also a LOT more white christians in the US.


The guy is due a blindfold and a last cigarette.


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True, but the media glosses over most "terrorist" attacks not committed by people with brown skin.

It's nice to see a little equality in reporting this time.

Especially considering that this is an occasion where the brown skin people were the victims.

I can only hope this tragedy will also help educate the average American to the difference between Muslims and Sikhs, though that's not to say the shooting would have been any better had it been against Muslims.

It's just kind of double sickening to me to consider that he may have killed them thinking they were something they were not.

It's an example of hatred and total ignorance combined into one package.


Shifty wrote:
The guy is due a blindfold and a last cigarette.

The guy is already dead. Killed in the parking lot by the police.


Fleshgrinder wrote:

True, but the media glosses over most "terrorist" attacks not committed by people with brown skin.

It's nice to see a little equality in reporting this time.

Especially considering that this is an occasion where the brown skin people were the victims.

I can only hope this tragedy will also help educate the average American to the difference between Muslims and Sikhs, though that's not to say the shooting would have been any better had it been against Muslims.

It's just kind of double sickening to me to consider that he may have killed them thinking they were something they were not.

It's an example of hatred and total ignorance combined into one package.

He knew they weren't real Americans. What else mattered?


thejeff wrote:
The guy is already dead. Killed in the parking lot by the police.

Oh we didn't get all those details on our news in this country, only that there had been a shooting and who was being shot at. What a douche.

Liberty's Edge

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Aretas wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
Whether he understood anything about their religion or not, he obviously targeted them on the basis of race, so religion is probably secondary. Another disturbed individual leaving tragedy in his wake.

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

Take a moment to go back and look at things you've posted in the past and see if you can see the irony of you writing "I want more info before I start speculating."


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thejeff wrote:


He knew they weren't real Americans. What else mattered?

To fix the aberrant nature of some humans, we must understand it thoroughly, else how else will we modify it?

Before you can reprogram the computer you have to know what language it uses.


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ciretose wrote:
Aretas wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
Whether he understood anything about their religion or not, he obviously targeted them on the basis of race, so religion is probably secondary. Another disturbed individual leaving tragedy in his wake.

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

Take a moment to go back and look at things you've posted in the past and see if you can see the irony of you writing "I want more info before I start speculating."

...Or even just two posts before. I mean, look, Aretas, whether I agree or disagree, you're entitled to your opinion, no argument there. However, once you start using the phrase "in my opinion", that's speculating.

Bickering aside, all I can say is that I was sad to hear what happened.


CNN wrote:
Romney, meanwhile, called the slayings "a senseless act of violence and a tragedy that should never befall any house of worship."

Ugh. This type of tragedy should never befall anywhere in the civilized world. Not in a house of worship, yeah, but equally, not in a high school, not in a movie theatre, not in a college lecture hall, not in a Luby's restaurant in Texas. Singling out "house of worship" is nothing but shameless god-pandering by would-be President Mitt.

The Exchange

Kirth Gersen wrote:
CNN wrote:
Romney, meanwhile, called the slayings "a senseless act of violence and a tragedy that should never befall any house of worship."
Ugh. This type of tragedy should never befall anywhere in the civilized world. Not in a house of worship, yeah, but equally, not in a high school, not in a movie theatre, not in a college lecture hall, not in a Luby's restaurant in Texas. Singling out "house of worship" is nothing but shameless god-pandering by would-be President Mitt.

Kirth:

Your right it should never befall anyone anywhere. However don't you think you are being overly sensitive. This tragedy did happen in a temple, so saying it should not happen in any house of worship is a bit apropos.

This is not to say Mittens isn't pandering. Mr. Usedcarsalesman panders unconsciously I believe.


CJ -- agree on both counts.


ciretose wrote:
Aretas wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
Whether he understood anything about their religion or not, he obviously targeted them on the basis of race, so religion is probably secondary. Another disturbed individual leaving tragedy in his wake.

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

Take a moment to go back and look at things you've posted in the past and see if you can see the irony of you writing "I want more info before I start speculating."

What are talking about? There was a question just before my remark whether it was racially or religiously motivated. Whats wrong with you?


A Man In Black wrote:
Aretas wrote:

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

He's a self-described white supremacist. He shot a bunch of non-white people at worship.

Where's the big mystery?

Whats up Man.

There is not mystery to the evil this guy brought down. I just didn't know any of the details from the investigators.
Later!

Liberty's Edge

Aretas wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Aretas wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
Whether he understood anything about their religion or not, he obviously targeted them on the basis of race, so religion is probably secondary. Another disturbed individual leaving tragedy in his wake.

Its not obvious. I want more info before I start speculating.

Take a moment to go back and look at things you've posted in the past and see if you can see the irony of you writing "I want more info before I start speculating."
What are talking about? There was a question just before my remark whether it was racially or religiously motivated. Whats wrong with you?

Look up the word irony. Look at the last post you made before your wrote "I want more info before I start speculating." where you speculated about the gunman.

If that doesn't help, maybe also look up the word "speculating". Then look up the words in the definition for speculating if that is also unclear...I don't know what to tell you if that doesn't work...


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Guys, I hate to be the one to say it, but there are plenty of other threads in which you can argue with Citizen Aretas. Let it go.


Burgomeister of Troll Town wrote:
Guys, I hate to be the one to say it, but there are plenty of other threads in which you can argue with Citizen Aretas. Let it go.

Who are you and what you did to our goblin?!

Spoiler:
But he is right.


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Burgomeister of Troll Town wrote:
Guys, I hate to be the one to say it, but there are plenty of other threads in which you can argue with Citizen Aretas. Let it go.

If you want to tell people to go to another thread to argue with Citizen Aretas, please start a new thread.


Burgomeister of Troll Town wrote:
Guys, I hate to be the one to say it, but there are plenty of other threads in which you can argue with Citizen Aretas. Let it go.

That's minus 500 troll points. Put forth a rational position like that again and you lose your burgomeister tag.

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