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Roleplaying the 3 Charisma Master Manipulator


Advice

51 to 100 of 150 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks Guy.

Okay, what I have so far:
Cold, dispassionate, and physically emotionless. Observant, and with calculated responses allowing him to speak the right words at the right time. Face and name forgettable, whilst impact of words felt long after.

Good so far?

Osirion

Cult of Vorg wrote:
Quiet and mumbly but insanely insightful. He'll shuffle around quietly, scratch himself uncouthly, then make beautifully mindblowing short statements or allegorical stories.

He's Lieuteanant Columbo!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Columbo is a bit too nice of guy.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Columbo is a bit too nice of guy.

While true. It is about presentation. The party talks with a dude, you stand back quietly, watching. The conversation wraps up, and you do the infamous, "just one more thing {roll absurd bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate check} (awesome statement of awesomeness)"


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Perhaps Rigoletto is a good example?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Perhaps Rigoletto is a good example?

Digging into Italian Operas, well, no one can accuse you of not thinking about your back story.

That could work, I would just do it with less Fail. :P


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It is my favorite Opera.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Only thing I could come up with, is being incredibly cold and emotionless, yet always having the right words to say.

If anyone has anything else, all is welcome.

Yeah, this sounds right. Also, people might think extremely little of the Manipulator, but still end up doing what he wants in the end. That's all I got, though. It's really kind of an iffy concept.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I like challenging RP PCs.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I am thinking I may run this as a female.

Qadira

blackbloodtroll wrote:


How do you roleplay a character with such dismal charisma, and yet great social skills?

It's not quite exactly the same, however:

When I was in college my algebra prof, admittedly a math genius, was so disgusting that I couldn't even pay attention in class! First off was his appearance (which I fully understand was a shallow response, however ...) He was emaciated with deeply hollow eyes and dark bags, pale grey waxy skin, and I swear he had eyebrows that had straggly hairs that had to be six inches long! He was a perfect living example of Simon Bar Sinister! When he would walk into the classroom at the beginning, he was surrounded by a miasma of rancid tobacco. Finally, when he talked, he would occasionally snort and grunt! I would quite literally recoil in my chair in abject fear of him!

What I see as a problem with this character is that you have two aspects so diametrically opposed, it may be hard to generate success. For example, was my algebra prof a brilliant instructor? I don't know, his habits and reek were so foul I simply couldn't learn. Best of luck playing this one!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I am looking for the proper meshing between the numbers and the flavor.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am looking for the proper meshing between the numbers and the flavor.

I like this

"Cold, dispassionate, and physically emotionless. Observant, and with calculated responses allowing him to speak the right words at the right time"

Now this
"Face and name forgettable, whilst impact of words felt long after."

Is a good option, the other is just the oposite. People look at you with great mistrust, your image is so strong that you cause a negative impact in peole yet when you speak your tone cautivate the most unwilling listener and your logic is undeniable (at least for the people you are speaking at)


Kuato from Total Recall
Splinter from TMNT
Egg Shen from Big Trouble in Little China

Wise to the point where people almost gravitate to what you say, but when it comes to people skills.... you sorely lack.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As gender is yet decided, I am going about in my mind whether to play female or not.
I am trying to come up with some good female examples, to help wrap my head around the character.

Can anyone think of any examples?


Velma from scooby doo!


T'pau.


I think the problem here is that charisma has no use by itself and that people are overthinking it.

Imagine that there was no strength check, but you had skills to utilize your strength (we ignore any other attributes linked to strength). Such as "lift (str)" and "push (str)". If you now had a class option that said "use your wisdom instead of strength on your all your skill checks with strength based skills"

What does it mean in practice? It means that this character could technically use str as a dump stat and max wisdom. Strength now becomes an irrelevant stat.

The question now is simple and the answer answers the question asked in the OP:

If this character has 3 in strength, is he physically weak?

My answer:

No. He is physically strong. Within the rules, and given the limitations I gave in the question, this is clearly a strong character because all "manifestations" of the strength stat are now covered by wisdom. Ie at any point where strength matters wisdom is used instead so strength by itself no longer matters.

The character in the OP is clearly socially competent (diplomacy, bluff, intimidate are high) and the remaining skills (perform, use magic device) are those not actually connected to your social skills at all. There are, as far as I know, no actual charisma checks, so the stat has been removed from the game as far as roleplaying is concerned.

Play him as a high charisma character.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

In a sense, playing him as a high charisma PC makes sense, but I am not a fan of disregarding a dump stat.
I don't like to dump a stat, unless it plays into the flavor of the character.

I want the great social skills to shine, but I also want the low charisma to mean something.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

In a sense, playing him as a high charisma PC makes sense, but I am not a fan of disregarding a dump stat.

I don't like to dump a stat, unless it plays into the flavor of the character.

I want the great social skills to shine, but I also want the low charisma to mean something.

If you really want to bother with this, you could see him as his charisma being a "facade". He's very skilled, but it's a result of a lot of work from his side.

This means that whenever he's not involved in anything he deems "important", he drops the facade. It's not a bluff, he just doesn't bother being "polite" unless necessary.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

One boon to this build, is a very high sense motive, which seems to be surprisingly lacking in other social builds.
This is one of the things that drew me in to the build.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

By the way, the AP has changed to Legacy of Fire.

The final stats are: Str:7 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 10 Wis: 19 Cha:3


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would say he's a bit like an older person, suspected to be a witch, lives outside of town because she's awkward and nobody likes her very much, but when the crops fail and the sheep die people know that she can help, but will shun her after she helped.
Of course you can manipulate while helping but if they don't feel that you personally have helped them, they are unlikely to want you close.

Also this feels like dirty munchkinism and you should be ashamed.
Good Luck nonetheless.

If you read Discworld novels, I would think of Granny Weatherhex when seeing those stats.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I know people didn't like it, but a sociopath really would work. Actually, I'm reminded of the Ltn. Leary series by David Drake. The main character, Lady Mundy of Chatsworth is an almost machine, who has learned to ape human behavior manners well enough that most people don't realize she has the emotional responses of a computer. Enough so that a complete sociopath attaches herself to Mundy, begging her to show her how to 'preted to be human', she see's through Mundy's act, and wants her to show her how to 'act human'. The bodyguard has all the emotional restraint of a ticked off rattlesnake who hasn't slept in a week. A character like that, who basically has no morals and no real concept of empathy would work for your Dwarf. Basically, he'd not really *believe* that other people matter, and people would get that vibe off him, like a snake's eyes looking at them. But he'd have all the right words and social graces to convince people that their initial reaction was off.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It is a weird build, but hardly powergamer/munchkin.

By the way, I do not like the Discworld Novels, and I know that saying that infuriates some. I also don't really like dogs, unless I am eating them.


I'd expect your GM to have your enemies use a lot of CHA-damage poison on that character, as soon as they get a good impression of what he is. Which, in this campaign, is more likely than in many others.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Duergar are immune to poison.

Why would the DM pick on me like that?


It could actually make sense to play the character as very "charismatic" in regards to learned behaviors.
Diplomacy: (S)He can make anybody his friend, and get past the freakish drugar appearance because he has a practiced understanding of how people work.
Bluff: since it's all a lie anyway, what's the difference between that and telling the truth? In fact lying is even easier sinde all you are doing is playing the mark.
Intimidate: (S)He gets people, gets how they think, and knows how to scare and hurt them as well.

Basically very clever and uses really well crafted manipulations for everything when interacting with people.

Handle Animal: Animals aren't affected by his(er) powers of manipulation, so -4 to handle animal.
Disguise: can't break pattern, so disguise is impossible, can't wing-it. easily.
Perform: no artistic talent whatsoever, no creative inspiration, no understanding of aesthetics or beauty. that can't really be learned. sure enough ranks and you can play like a Lv1 bard, but that's a LOT of practice
UMD: No real force of will to cajole a magic item, no real personal power.

This character relies on a Mark doing the real work, and manipulating them, as opposed to convincing them based on the character's personal influence. Instead of convincing you to do what i want you to do, cause i want you to, I convince you that you want to do it.

Wow, i think i know this guy. he's actually really weird and awkward, but gets all kinda of action and has a lot of friends eating our of the palm of his hand cause he is an absolute master of manipulation! took me a while to realize what a reprehensible bastard he is!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If I go female, I think ice queen is the way to go.
I am actually leaning towards female now.

What do you think?


Bluff: Nobody has to like you for you to be a good liar.
Intimidate: Ice-Queens can be scary
Bad at other Cha skills, sure

Diplomacy (here's teh sticking point for me) Why/How is she good at it?
She may not be the best ever at it with a +15 (20cha sorc with a thrush, trait, & Skill Focus:Dip) but she's still able to take an indifferent NPC to Helpful at elast 25% of the time assuming a high Cha target, so there's got to be something about her.

People need to like her, or at least listen to her, and be willing to help her (effect of High Dip) even if she is lacking something.

Having that be a serious weakness could fit. She really does lack any sort of force of personality, and just uses her mastery of how people function to manipulate them, but without that sort of manipulation, she's crippled. Insecurity, anxiety, self-loathing, are what lie beneath the front she puts up. She'd fit into WoD pretty well, at least =P


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Duergar are immune to poison.

Why would the DM pick on me like that?

Because you are building a character with a super-obvious weakness? "But I do roleplay it!" goes only so far when you give GMs such an obvious route to taking out one member of the party during a fight.

I don't say that he has to do it every fight, but I'd expect him to to at least exploit that weakness every now and then. Otherwise it isn't a weakness, just min-maxing on your part. And Jade Regent gives the GM better explanations why opponents might come prepared than most other APs.


magnuskn wrote:
Because you are building a character with a super-obvious weakness? "But I do roleplay it!" goes only so far when you give GMs such an obvious route to taking out one member of the party during a fight.

Punitive GMing! Fun for ALL the kids!

*harrumphs in disgust*


Female example: GlaDOS! : )


Do the creep! Except it works!

But seriously, someone that no-one really notice or remembers. No force of personality, so a push over. It's just when you open your mouth or you bring your insight to bear that people take notice.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Duergar are immune to poison.

Why would the DM pick on me like that?

Because you are building a character with a super-obvious weakness? "But I do roleplay it!" goes only so far when you give GMs such an obvious route to taking out one member of the party during a fight.

I don't say that he has to do it every fight, but I'd expect him to to at least exploit that weakness every now and then. Otherwise it isn't a weakness, just min-maxing on your part. And Jade Regent gives the GM better explanations why opponents might come prepared than most other APs.

As I stated in an earlier post, the AP got switched to Legacy of Fire.

Also, not every PC with a low score is a min-maxed PC. This PC is in no way game breaking. The idea of a PC with really good Sense Motive and Perception to compliment high social skills appealed to me. Being a sociable Duergar appealed to me as well, and the Inquisitor allowed me to do that. Battle wise, I will be effective, but no where near powerful.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
If I go female, I think ice queen is the way to go.

While the character has great social skills, she still has no natural charisma. So I don't think anyone would think of her as a "queen", ice or otherwise.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
VRMH wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
If I go female, I think ice queen is the way to go.
While the character has great social skills, she still has no natural charisma. So I don't think anyone would think of her as a "queen", ice or otherwise.

So, more like actual members of royal families.


I have met some people who were awful to have around (screechy monotone voice, vague eerie feeling of insanity, pushy, sticklers for details, impossible to tell emotional state) who nevertheless were hard not to try to appease, mainly because I wanted to avoid prolonging the contact, and since they were at least formally reasonable, being rude did not feel like an option. Also, bureaucrats.


I would probably play someone who thinks that whatever he says and does it the "proper" way to do things. And whenever he tries to get someone to do something he wants, and that person doesn't after passing a sense motive check, then your character convinces himself that the NPC's reaction to your character's request was what your character wanted in the first place. So you could play someone who is arogant, but doesn't realize it (or refuses to believe it).


A "mother superior"?


Evil, wicked Bene Gesserit schoolmarm who guilt trips everyone.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Analysis wrote:
Evil, wicked Bene Gesserit schoolmarm who guilt trips everyone.

With the AP switched to Legacy of Fire, a Dune based example is fitting.

Alia Atreides may be a fine example, which, if works, would be awesome.

Also, the god has been switched to Irori. This is the end of changes to the build.


Not to be Mr. Disagreeable here, I would say that Alia actually has a pretty high charisma, not wisdom. Most likely a sorcerer considering how she got her powers. I mean her basic downfall is that she failed her will save. :P


Ravingdork wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Because you are building a character with a super-obvious weakness? "But I do roleplay it!" goes only so far when you give GMs such an obvious route to taking out one member of the party during a fight.

Punitive GMing! Fun for ALL the kids!

*harrumphs in disgust*

Munchkin min-maxing! Fun for ALL the table!

*harrumphs in disgust*

Hey, I can do finger-pointing and generalizations, too.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Can someone just be good at something, and bad at something else without all the Min-Max hoohah?

Obviously, this is not that kind of build.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Guy Kilmore wrote:
Not to be Mr. Disagreeable here, I would say that Alia actually has a pretty high charisma, not wisdom. Most likely a sorcerer considering how she got her powers. I mean her basic downfall is that she failed her will save. :P

Alia lacked any kind of deep personal identity, as she calls upon the combined ego and memories of all her female ancestors to form a personality, which she was born with, and had no real chance to develop her own. To me, that utter lack of personal identity marks her as a low charisma person, with a supernatural ability to manipulate others.

Besides, even the highest Will save PC, fails one, once in a while.


erm... I like the lie to me reference.

I know many people who I would say have low charisma in real life, and many who have high charisma. Charismatic people aren't necessarily attractive, or well dressed. They just have forceful personalities and a lot of self esteem.

If you play D&D, you likely know at least one person who is a mild example of this: smart (int), savvy (wis) but uncharismatic. Maybe they don't have any tact, or any self esteem, or are incredibly selfish and push people too far. Just take this to the extreem


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Can someone just be good at something, and bad at something else without all the Min-Max hoohah?

Obviously, this is not that kind of build.

Charisma 3 is not min-maxing? Really? With maxed social skills to try to circumvent the obvious penalties of building your character to such an extreme?

Hey, you know what else in the game has CHA 3? Plants and animals.

A GM targeting an deliberately extremely low attribute is just as legit as a player building such a character in the first place. You yourself made your character extremely vulnerable in that area to heighten other stats.

I am not even accusing you of munchkin'ing ( although you are clearly min-maxing, otherwise you wouldn't have gone with a 7 in CHA before racial adjustments ), since you obviously care about the roleplaying aspect. I was just using the term to point out to RD how ludicrous his comment was.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, unless I put a 10 in every stat, it's min-maxing?

I am now working with a 15 point buy, something is going to be low.
Also, Duergar have a -4 to charisma, so, without dumping everything else, it's going to be low.

In the end, not every dumped score is the sign of a powergamer.
It is simply prejudice, created by bad experiences.


A seven in one attribute is the maximum you can dump an attribute, to squeeze that extra one building point out of it. Choosing one of the very powerful player races with a -4 to the same attribute is squeezing it even harder.

Yes, it is min-maxing. Which is not inherently bad, but you got to live with the consequences. Which include GMs targeting that attribute sometimes, just as some players with an appropiate knowledge check would probably target a particularly low attribute of a monster with ability damage effects.

Also, it is a bit hard for me to get over the fact that the only monsters in the three Bestiaries with CHA 3 are belligerent animals and non-sentient plants, but that is probably just me. ^^

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