Shards of Sin
Curse of the Lady's Light
The Asylum Stone
Beyond the Doomsday Door
Into the Nightmare Rift
The Dead Heart of Xin

Krugulk Throatcaller p. 9
you only have base boggard hp and HD, you forgot to add in cleric HD and hp
should be hp 43; 6d8+9

the naming pool? Its mentioned, but no information about it that i can see..

So, the encounter with the three seugathi along the Halflight Path is brutal. I ran it for my gaming group today, and the party barely made it through in one piece. The party consists of a cleric, and abjurer, an Aldori swordlord, and a samurai. The only reason they survived was because the swordlord made his Will save against mind fog. The rest of the party was confused for pretty much the whole fight, and the swordlord was still confused for about 80% of it. They ended up killing poor Abra Lopati and nearly killing each other, as well. As it was, three of four PCs were left with permanent insanities. Three DC 20 Will saves each round versus the madness auras, a 15-foot-wide hallway so there's no room to get away from them...was this early encounter meant to be so brutal?

the naming pool? Its mentioned, but no information about it that i can see..

The Naming Pool is in the adventure itself, on page 48.

So, the encounter with the three seugathi along the Halflight Path is brutal. I ran it for my gaming group today, and the party barely made it through in one piece. The party consists of a cleric, and abjurer, an Aldori swordlord, and a samurai. The only reason they survived was because the swordlord made his Will save against mind fog. The rest of the party was confused for pretty much the whole fight, and the swordlord was still confused for about 80% of it. They ended up killing poor Abra Lopati and nearly killing each other, as well. As it was, three of four PCs were left with permanent insanities. Three DC 20 Will saves each round versus the madness auras, a 15-foot-wide hallway so there's no room to get away from them...was this early encounter meant to be so brutal?

Oh yeah, those guys are BREW-TALL! I was surprised that there was such a nasty "random encounter" right off the bat. I'm thinking running away and leaving the poor NPCs to die is probably the best tactic. Welcome to Kaer Maga, I guess!

I actually like the design there. It tells the players right away, "This adventure is going to have some nasty fights. Be careful." I think by the third chapter of an AP, we can start assuming that the players are fairly experienced and skilled, and it's time to up the difficulty a bit.

I actually like the design there. It tells the players right away, "This adventure is going to have some nasty fights. Be careful." I think by the third chapter of an AP, we can start assuming that the players are fairly experienced and skilled, and it's time to up the difficulty a bit.

True, but there's a fine line between "very difficult" and "Total Party Killer." My second group lost their rogue to the lone seugathi under the Lady's Light, and there was much griping about how ridiculously powerful the monster is already. I think I'll replace this encounter with three cloakers instead so my group doesn't walk out on my game in protest. :)

I do like a brutal encounter right off the bat to set the mood, just be warned that this one is very deadly!

After chatting with Jacobs (the developer for the adventure), the basic idea behind making the seugathi fight a "high 9" challenge rating is that it's probably the only fight you've got that day, plus you've got Abra with you, and you likely fought a seugathi in the previous adventure and thus have an idea of what they can do.

That said, if anyone who hasn't run the encounter yet is worried that it might be too brutal, you can always drop one of the seugathi and bring it down to a more manageable CR 8. It's primarily meant to be more a plot point, and a TPK that early would definitely be unsatisfying!

It's primarily meant to be more a plot point, and a TPK that early would definitely be unsatisfying!

That's true.

"Welcome to the city of Kaer Maga! It's filled with wonders, from self-eviscerating trolls to suspended cliffside manors. Truly, the most interesting city on Golarion! Also, here's three unstoppable giant worms. You're dead."

Actually, one of the great things about Suegathi is that even if they "kill" the entire party, they might just leave them all alive and unconscious -- and insane! -- for their own inscrutable reasons.

... and a TPK that early would definitely be unsatisfying!

Yeah, you should certainly wait until you are at least 3 or 4 sessions in before you TPK your players.

After chatting with Jacobs (the developer for the adventure), the basic idea behind making the seugathi fight a "high 9" challenge rating is that it's probably the only fight you've got that day, plus you've got Abra with you, and you likely fought a seugathi in the previous adventure and thus have an idea of what they can do.

Putting a melee NPC with Will as his lowest save with the group for an encounter where you have to repeatedly save vs. confusion just makes it more difficult (IMO), since he's as likely to attack a party member as a bad guy. :P

James Sutter wrote:

After chatting with Jacobs (the developer for the adventure), the basic idea behind making the seugathi fight a "high 9" challenge rating is that it's probably the only fight you've got that day, plus you've got Abra with you, and you likely fought a seugathi in the previous adventure and thus have an idea of what they can do.

Putting a melee NPC with Will as his lowest save with the group for an encounter where you have to repeatedly save vs. confusion just makes it more difficult (IMO), since he's as likely to attack a party member as a bad guy. :P

Yeah, when I ran it, Abra immediately blew his Will save against the mind fog, which means the only way he could have possibly acted normally would have been to roll 3 natural 20's in a row--a situation the party samurai found himself in as well.

And speaking of mind fog, I'm pretty sure these seugathi should be rated as a higher CR. They've got comparable HP, AC, and saves for a CR 6, but then you add in the fast healing, madness aura, powerful spell-like abilities with high DCs (mind fog, phantasmal killer, oh, and they can cast confusion just in case you make those saves against their madness aura), and the confusion command ability, and they become rather impressive adversaries, especially when fighting more than one at a time.

Seugathi math, for those that care

Basically: overlapping auras make saving very, very tough. This doesn't matter as much when it is a bunch of Troglodytes, but a madness aura combined with spells is basically a death sentence for anyone but a highly optimized, high Will, high Wisdom character. For GMs, skipping or altering this encounter would probably be a very good idea.

Although, this DOES make me feel bad for complaining that the last two levels of Shards of Sin were too easy. Can't wait until I get a chance to check this adventure out!

On P.32 the book references 2 Cloaks of Protection +2. Are these supposed to be Cloaks of Resistance +2 or are they referring to a cloak that provides a deflection bonus?

I suspect they are the latter but I'd like some clarification if possible.

On P.32 the book references 2 Cloaks of Protection +2. Are these supposed to be Cloaks of Resistance +2 or are they referring to a cloak that provides a deflection bonus?

I suspect they are the latter but I'd like some clarification if possible.

They're supposed to be cloaks of resistance +2.

Now and then, edition creep slips in (they were known as cloaks of protection back in the old days...).

Just an observation but it wasn't until I read through the adventure that I came to realize that it wasn't a spine-whip wielding evil knight with the head of a dragon on the cover. I tested it out on my wife and she also thought the "headless" guy had a draconic head initially. One of those things you probably don't notice until everything has been put together for the final printing. The cover art itself is as always, awesome! Thank you Wayne Reynolds.

Thank god I had no idea what a seugathi was..I just dropped in a trio of juvenile purple worms...I convert the whole path back to 1st edition as that is what I play.

I knew what the cloaks of protection +2 were.

So about the statblock of Luonim the Vast in page 35, I am having trouble with the blood points ability (I do not posess "City of Strangers" and am unfamiliar with the Bloatmage prestige class). The ability says that Luonim can use extra bloodpoints but dosen't describe how many or how. It also says that if his bloodpoints pool drops below 4 (which is his initial total) he starts going mad - but the tatics section describes him using bloodpoints at the beginning of combat while remaining in control.

So are those two unclear things related? am I supposed to understand that Luonim can use extra bloodpoints, but if the number of extra bloodpoints he uses excceds 4 than the negative effects start happening?

the entire thing is really confusing.

Also, about the roon where he is encounterd, it is said the the PCs should not realize that the roon is spinning - however there are exists to the room to parts of the dungeon that are not spinning, so the characters should be able to realise what is happening by seeing their angle relative to the other parts of the dungeon rapidly changing. What's up with that?

Thank god I had no idea what a seugathi was..I just dropped in a trio of juvenile purple worms...I convert the whole path back to 1st edition as that is what I play.

I knew what the cloaks of protection +2 were.

A better replacement for seugathi would be umber hulks.

Thanks for the update...my players won't be gaming til friday.

So about the statblock of Luonim the Vast in page 35, I am having trouble with the blood points ability (I do not posess "City of Strangers" and am unfamiliar with the Bloatmage prestige class). The ability says that Luonim can use extra bloodpoints but dosen't describe how many or how. It also says that if his bloodpoints pool drops below 4 (which is his initial total) he starts going mad - but the tatics section describes him using bloodpoints at the beginning of combat while remaining in control.

So are those two unclear things related? am I supposed to understand that Luonim can use extra bloodpoints, but if the number of extra bloodpoints he uses excceds 4 than the negative effects start happening?

the entire thing is really confusing.

Also, about the roon where he is encounterd, it is said the the PCs should not realize that the roon is spinning - however there are exists to the room to parts of the dungeon that are not spinning, so the characters should be able to realise what is happening by seeing their angle relative to the other parts of the dungeon rapidly changing. What's up with that?

Here's the Bloatmage.

Also, about the roon where he is encounterd, it is said the the PCs should not realize that the roon is spinning - however there are exists to the room to parts of the dungeon that are not spinning, so the characters should be able to realise what is happening by seeing their angle relative to the other parts of the dungeon rapidly changing. What's up with that?

It doesn't say that the PCs don't notice the room is spinning--the spinning is obvious, both from the exits flashing past and the obvious force being exerted on the characters bodies. The line talking about the PCs' perspective is just saying that there's no need to move the miniatures on the battlemat because their *relative* positions stay the same.

(I suppose if you wanted to, you could just spin the entire battlemat to simulate the motion, but that doesn't affect the actual combat in any way.)

Lord Snow wrote:

Also, about the roon where he is encounterd, it is said the the PCs should not realize that the roon is spinning - however there are exists to the room to parts of the dungeon that are not spinning, so the characters should be able to realise what is happening by seeing their angle relative to the other parts of the dungeon rapidly changing. What's up with that?

It doesn't say that the PCs don't notice the room is spinning--the spinning is obvious, both from the exits flashing past and the obvious force being exerted on the characters bodies. The line talking about the PCs' perspective is just saying that there's no need to move the miniatures on the battlemat because their *relative* positions stay the same.

(I suppose if you wanted to, you could just spin the entire battlemat to simulate the motion, but that doesn't affect the actual combat in any way.)

It would be pretty fun to set everything up on a Lazy Susan and give it a spin, though! Or have some way to keep it slowly spinning throughout the entire encounter, so people have to move their miniatures around while it spins! :)

Lord Snow wrote:

Also, about the roon where he is encounterd, it is said the the PCs should not realize that the roon is spinning - however there are exists to the room to parts of the dungeon that are not spinning, so the characters should be able to realise what is happening by seeing their angle relative to the other parts of the dungeon rapidly changing. What's up with that?

It doesn't say that the PCs don't notice the room is spinning--the spinning is obvious, both from the exits flashing past and the obvious force being exerted on the characters bodies. The line talking about the PCs' perspective is just saying that there's no need to move the miniatures on the battlemat because their *relative* positions stay the same.

(I suppose if you wanted to, you could just spin the entire battlemat to simulate the motion, but that doesn't affect the actual combat in any way.)

Sweet idea! that way I can make the players be evrey bit as dizzy as their characters :)

A very valuable visual reference for Kaer Maga itself from Varthanna.

My group was better off than most when it came to the seugathi fight.

1): They have a construct in the group.
2): The cleric got "act normally" the first confusion round and threw down a magic circle against evil.
3): Making the mite bard cohort punch himself is hilarious, but non-fatal.

So in the long run, it was just an excuse for the wizard to get three free magic missile wands with almost-full capacity (the random rolls came up disturbingly high).

The clockwork soldiers, however, nearly took out the construct PC, though, which until then came nowhere near close to happening.

B3. Research Assistant

The players (as far I can tell) don't have any way of knowing how to disarm this trap.

How can they bypass it? Must they be affected once at least, then just run through the room before the reset? Is the symbol triggered by sight? If so, will Darkness counter it?

B3. Research Assistant

The players (as far I can tell) don't have any way of knowing how to disarm this trap.

How can they bypass it? Must they be affected once at least, then just run through the room before the reset? Is the symbol triggered by sight? If so, will Darkness counter it?

Jacobs (who developed the adventure) says: "The players probably *don't* know how to bypass the trap, but they can still detect it with Perception and use Disable Device as usual for a trap."

That said, in my home game, I only have it affect you if you ask a question (any question, including "what the hell is that?") within the room. As long as you don't ask questions, you're fine. That makes it less of a trap (at least after the first question) and more of a dangerous resource, but it's also an option!

2): The cleric got "act normally" the first confusion round and threw down a magic circle against evil.

That's nice, but by RAW prot evil effects don't prevent confusion, as it is not mind control. I would however do rule that the seugathi can't use their ability to control the outcome of the confusion though.

Of course, you may houserule that prot evil works, and that'd fine too :P they are pretty brutal as it is.