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My suggestion, pull something that will make them turn around and flee.
First, there's dealing with the considerable distance. With rope or spells this might be managed easily.
Second, there is tracking her down. Considering her ability to levitate, this should generally be beyond the realm of PCs unless one has pimped out survival. In general, this should lead to them getting lost, and now making survival checks to find their way back. How many rations did they bring with them? Did they bring proper sleeping equipment or are they fatigued for sleeping on rock the next day?
Third, there be monsters here. Depending on your group, have additional encounters with reasonable Darklands enemies and dangers (oozes, cave ins, green slime etc.) until they decide it is too difficult, or something really over CRed that they can either flee from easily, or spot beforehand and decide to retreat, or something that will be satisfied with killing only one PC for food and let the rest escape, depending on your group's temperament, whatever will best make them decide to turn around. If they persist and contine for days, have them come across a Darklands settlement tha would be suicidal to assault (drow, duergars, derro, etc.), and have them assaulted with continually tougher scouting and defense parties.
If the group is deadset on tracking her down, have one of the monster encounters reveal her corpse and the beastie start with some initial damage to show a struggle. Or have them catch up to her and do another battle until she's defeated.
After all, one does not simply walk into the Darklands, and the AP needs to turn them around. Also, don't underestimate simply telling your players OOC, that the tunnels lead off the AP tracks and into dangers they are not ready to face and realistically would come to a TPK. I find most groups that sign on for an AP are willing to stay on the rails when they know they're going off of them and save the GM some work.
I don't mind the work in making a new area. I've got some encounters planned including a derro settlement and have an overall cave system already made which includes an occasional 5% chance for a party member to be snatch up by a purple worm. I don't even really mind them going off rails so much. I was actually more so looking for any setting specific advice but I think I found it, albeit very indirectly, though thank you for you advice.
One of the players has been a long time GM so I'm fairly sure he knows what's up. The rest of the group I pressed upon them they couldn't see the bottom as one player had darkvision. So, they know it's an eerie place they can't get advanced intel on before they proceed. If they choose to trek forward anyway they will learn what the darklands are all about. Pray the fools don't carry any torches... (though most do).
I am trying to give them in-character tips about the darklands by probing them for their history to see if they would have any dealings with Koriah Azmeren, who is also in the AP, as she's an expert on the subject. If any come up with it I'll share with them the snippets from the Into the Darklands book about each section but that's generally it.
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Question. In area c2, the description indicates the magic circle is 30' in diameter, but the room is only mapped as 15' x 15'. Is the room supposed to be bigger, or the circle smaller?
Psst. The map says one square is 10 feet.
It's a 30' x 30' room.
I used to have that problem all the time while transcribing maps from the books to graph paper. I'd forget the scale and the alterations I was making and the map would look all funky and lopsided...
Would having a single Sheiezyx with a template or two (I'm thinking half-fiend or advanced and giant)replace the normal two be horrifically unbalancing in the final encounter? My players might want more of a final boss type encounter, rather than two lesser minions.
In a group of 6 I downed a few character with the two and kept knocking one out. They're beasty as is. They just kept living due to a channels. You *can* add templates to make a single, more meaty "end" guy but they're not really meant to be end guys. Their masters are long gone and they're basically just camping out in a safe spot, until the PCs arrive, that is.
Would having a single Sheiezyx with a template or two (I'm thinking half-fiend or advanced and giant)replace the normal two be horrifically unbalancing in the final encounter? My players might want more of a final boss type encounter, rather than two lesser minions.
I'm all for this.
My player got really tired of the Closet Troll type encounters of 'several dudes in a tiny room'.
I'm thinking a single one with the advanced template for my measly 2 PC group.
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Would having a single Sheiezyx with a template or two (I'm thinking half-fiend or advanced and giant)replace the normal two be horrifically unbalancing in the final encounter? My players might want more of a final boss type encounter, rather than two lesser minions.
I would advice against it - boss fights are better when there are multiple enemies. Why would you want to use only a single monster? you get to roll twice as many dice if there are two... ;)
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Hello guys!
First, sorry but my english isn't very good.
I don't understand something about B22 and B23 areas. If Tower Girls don't know how open the doors between both areas, How have they passed to B23 area? And how did they brought furnishings there?
If they enter in B23 area by breacking with picks, Why can't the players enter the room through the hole?
Thanks in advance.
I assume you're referring to the siccatite doors (with the rune puzzle on them). These doors lead to area B24, not to B23.
I have to admit that I missed this on my first read-through, also.
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My players have been plowing through the end of this AP while mostly at 3rd level, and they took out all 3 derros before any of them could flee.
Now they are about to head straight to the shriezyx's chamber...
I was looking at their statblock and comparing it to the statblock for the shriezyx from Magnimar, City of Monuments. The original shriezyx includes regeneration 3 (fire), and has a DC 14 Fortitude save to resist its Slowing Toxin.
But regeneration 3 (fire) is missing from Shards of Sin, p. 58, and the Slowing Toxin Fortitude save is still DC 14. As an advanced creature, this should be DC 16, yes?
I will make these changes for my players. Has anyone else noticed this, and does anyone foresee any problems?
I didn't. Good catch.
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I have a player that is going to be a Bladebound Magus, and I was looking for some advice.
I was going to have the PC find the blade in the dungeon as the PCs approach level 3. Any recommendations as to what the blade's purpose should be?
I'm not quite sure what the ultimate aims or antagonists of the AP will be (haven't read that far).
Maybe the elimination of all Thassilonian spellcasters?
Maybe to ensure the Star is reforged? Maybe to prevent the Star from being reforged?
Any advice would be appreciated.
I have a player that is going to be a Bladebound Magus, and I was looking for some advice.
I was going to have the PC find the blade in the dungeon as the PCs approach level 3. Any recommendations as to what the blade's purpose should be?
I'm not quite sure what the ultimate aims or antagonists of the AP will be (haven't read that far).
Maybe the elimination of all Thassilonian spellcasters?
Maybe to ensure the Star is reforged? Maybe to prevent the Star from being reforged?Any advice would be appreciated.
Not that familiar with those rules; but how about the purpose of defeating/hindering Runelords? If it's to be found in the ruins below The Crow, it stands to reason it could be from a defeated enemy of a Runelord, kept as a trophy and forgotten after Thassilon's fall... Or something similar.
Also, there are constructs everywhere it seems in this AP.
The item's purpose could be preventing the rebirth of Thassilon.
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I started this AP with my group last night. The party consists of a good old fashioned tank Fighter, a Gunslinger,a Cleric, a Rogue, and a Magus.
They easily dispatched the Pugwampis, got the mission details from Sheila and headed to the Arvensoar first. For some reason this was unexpected but why should it be? The Adventure sort of assumes an order of following up leads. My group went out of order and went to the cops first. After the Arvensoar, they went to see Zograthy, where they failed Diplomacy checks to get him to lower his price for information and started brawling with the 12 thugs that came running to Zograthy's shouts. As soon as I planted all 12 of these thugs on the battle board I knew it was too many. The combat became a much longer encounter than was necessary for the early stage of the adventure or even the type of encounter, I think. I almost dropped one or two PCs too. One of my PCs kept attacking Zograthy instead of the thugs. So finally, with Zograthy down to 2 hp and the room still full of thugs who have barely been touched because their AC is too high for my 1st level players to hit, Zograthy falls to his knees, begs for mercy and calls off the thugs. The party next went to see Fenster. I played Fenster as more than a little touched. It was a lot of fun and got a lot more mileage for the group, I think, than had I played up how disgusting he's written. Not that the way he's written is great but my group likes the slow, dim-witted, idiot voice I gave to Fenster. He might become a recurring character. From Fenster, the party head straight for Natalya's hideout. The battle lasted a LONG time. Partly because I decided it'd be fun if the guards in the shack had added a bolt to the inside of the door. The dragged the Cleric inside and started beating her while the Fighter tried unsuccessfully to beat down the door. The Gunslinger finally got the door open by putting enough holes in it that she was able to get part of her hand in enough to use Disable Device but not before the Cleric was unconscious. Meanwhile, the Rogue upstairs who had taken the unlikely and most unexpected route of through the roof to get inside, got dropped to -11 by one of the sewer goblins who rolled a natty 20 and another to confirm. The Magus was then dropped to 0 by Natalya and tied up, unconscious but stable after spending a benny. Natalya charms the Fighter who takes the Gunslingers gun away from her to take to Natalya. Eventually Natalya is defeated by the Gunslinger throwing four powder packs into the air infront of Natalya and the Cleric casting Fire Bolt. Quick, on the fly adjudication of these ingenious moves that I'm pretty sure there are no rules for, had me making a reflex save for half damage the fire bolt and 1d6 for each powder bag.
The party was seriously considering leaving Natalya and taking the shard for themselves. The Cleric convinced them to at least take Natalya to Sheila to get the rest of their pay and not tell her about the shard. Sheila, of course, revives Natalya who spills the beans about the shard and says the PCs probably have it. Some bluffing and some failed bluffing go down and the Rogue finally produces the cursed item. Sheila gives him the ioun stone to insert; he does and the curse is lifted. They get all the info they need to keep going; next stop, The Crow.
Tons of fun. Group had a great time with this. Lots of roleplaying, plenty of combat.
They don't have to be taken in any order. They all ultimately point to going out to the Crow. As long as they can piece that together they "accomplished" that part of the mission. Glad to hear you otherwise had fun! :)
I have a player that is going to be a Bladebound Magus, and I was looking for some advice.
I was going to have the PC find the blade in the dungeon as the PCs approach level 3. Any recommendations as to what the blade's purpose should be?
I'm not quite sure what the ultimate aims or antagonists of the AP will be (haven't read that far).
Maybe the elimination of all Thassilonian spellcasters?
Maybe to ensure the Star is reforged? Maybe to prevent the Star from being reforged?Any advice would be appreciated.
Since this weapon would be found in Alaznist's sanctum, possible purposes could be:
1. Reforge the Sihedron. Alaznist has the forge, after all, although why she would want to when it would restore Xin is a bit of a mystery (as a WMD?)
2. Glorify Alaznist and/or Yamasoth. Would make Beyond the Doomsday Door very interesting...
3. Subjugate giants. Plenty of giant enemies throughout the Path--killing or enslaving them could make a good running plot.
Our PCs (3rd level party of 5) could not deal with the centipede swarm. On the first encounter they ran and were very lucky not to lose a PC (they remembered the Drag action and dragged the lagging character through a door just in time). On the second encounter they threw all 10 alchemical fires but did not get enough hits against the very high touch AC to kill it; they had to spend a hero point to save the lagging PC.
Beating on it with torches did not seem viable; it does 2d6, torches do 1d3, and it has as many hp as a PC.
How have other groups dealt with this encounter?
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Smokesticks to create distance from the swarm, then I can't remember if they just retreated or had the oracle burning hands it to death. One of the players brought up the whole insects no liking smoke thing, and it sounded reasonable, so I ruled that they wouldn't enter squares covered by smokesticks. Partly because it is a harsh encounter, and partly because I like a bit of creativity and reward clever use of the huge quantities of alchemical items they got from the tower girls.
How have other groups dealt with this encounter?
This encounter was also very difficult for my group of 4 PCs. The presence of a pyromaniac cleric of Asmodeus helped somewhat, but that encounter could have been a TPK. During the first encounter with the swarm some of the PCs had to play bait so the others could backtrack. The room full of spiderweb certainly didn't help with the retreat, despite the creative use of oil and fire. It came down to the players being unconscious or with single-digit hit points. The swarm wasn't doing so well by this time, but it's the wall of fire in the middle of the corridor that got it to lose interest. The PCs fled to lick their wounds.
I should also mention that my group has two tieflings for whom fire isn't much of an issue, so that certainly helped them survive.
When the group came back, the next day, it took a bit of searching to find the swarm again as it had found another lair. But since, contrary to the PCs, it hadn't been able to heal much, and since the cleric of Asmodeus now had all here area fire spells, the centipede swarm wasn't much of a threat anymore.
If you're interested, here is the relevant episode of our campaign journal. We've now started book 4.
Regarding the clockwork servant, the text says "until it winds down" but doesn't say how long that takes and neither does the Bestiary entry. How long does it take. I'm trying to find a way out of my PCs having a semi-permanent clockwork bodyguard. I know my group. They will milk this. It's too cool to delete but I'm not sure how to moderate it.
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I have a player that is going to be a Bladebound Magus, and I was looking for some advice.
I was going to have the PC find the blade in the dungeon as the PCs approach level 3. Any recommendations as to what the blade's purpose should be?
I'm not quite sure what the ultimate aims or antagonists of the AP will be (haven't read that far).
Maybe the elimination of all Thassilonian spellcasters?
Maybe to ensure the Star is reforged? Maybe to prevent the Star from being reforged?Any advice would be appreciated.
The Ultimate Antagonist in this AP is Xin. Of course, the only way to really permanently defeat Xin is, in fact, to assemble the Sihedron so that he can return. Until then he is just kind of locked in a really weird, really unpleasant limbo. I would strongly recommend picking up Dead Heart of Xin & giving it a going-over if you are inclined to go with His ultimate, permanent destruction as the blade's purpose. Particularly as it gives you a lot of background info on Xin & his relationships, both with Thassilon itself & with the people who would become the Runelord's.
Although, granted, only two of his original apprentices survived to remain Runelord's until Earthfall.
Regarding the clockwork servant, the text says "until it winds down" but doesn't say how long that takes and neither does the Bestiary entry. How long does it take. I'm trying to find a way out of my PCs having a semi-permanent clockwork bodyguard. I know my group. They will milk this. It's too cool to delete but I'm not sure how to moderate it.
I don't know where I grabbed these numbers, but I ruled that the key in C10 can be used once a day for 5 hours of use.
That bing said, even if it is constantly on, it's not game breaking. The construct doesn't get any stronger, it'll probably die to something in the second book. My group's did. There was much sadness for Cogsworth.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Regarding the clockwork servant, the text says "until it winds down" but doesn't say how long that takes and neither does the Bestiary entry. How long does it take. I'm trying to find a way out of my PCs having a semi-permanent clockwork bodyguard. I know my group. They will milk this. It's too cool to delete but I'm not sure how to moderate it.
Per Bestiary 3, Clockwork subtype, page 304
Winding (Ex) Clockwork constructs must be wound with
special keys in order to function. As a general rule, a fully wound clockwork can remain active for 1 day per Hit Die, but shorter or longer durations are possible.
So a 2 HD servant has 2 days of function per winding.
At your discretion, of course.
If you don't want the party to have a constant companion, then focus your attacks on it, and kill it.
A name like Cogsworth carries great weight. For the love of Cayden; tell me they added a monocle or a butler suit.Regarding the clockwork servant, the text says "until it winds down" but doesn't say how long that takes and neither does the Bestiary entry. How long does it take. I'm trying to find a way out of my PCs having a semi-permanent clockwork bodyguard. I know my group. They will milk this. It's too cool to delete but I'm not sure how to moderate it.I don't know where I grabbed these numbers, but I ruled that the key in C10 can be used once a day for 5 hours of use.
That bing said, even if it is constantly on, it's not game breaking. The construct doesn't get any stronger, it'll probably die to something in the second book. My group's did. There was much sadness for Cogsworth.
They did indeed go looking for ways of upgrading him, which allowed me to introduce Morgamer Pug early in the campaign. Unfortunately they did not have the funds to give him intelligence, or purchase keys that would allow him to function on a butler level. His only decoration was given by the Troglodytes which the party converted to Nethys, and they basically decorated him like a tribal totem.
Per Bestiary 3, Clockwork subtype, page 304
Winding (Ex) Clockwork constructs must be wound with
special keys in order to function. As a general rule, a fully wound clockwork can remain active for 1 day per Hit Die, but shorter or longer durations are possible.
So a 2 HD servant has 2 days of function per winding.
At your discretion, of course.
If you don't want the party to have a constant companion, then focus your attacks on it, and kill it.
Oh yeah, I could just kill it.
My suggestion, pull something that will make them turn around and flee.
First, there's dealing with the considerable distance. With rope or spells this might be managed easily.
Second, there is tracking her down. Considering her ability to levitate, this should generally be beyond the realm of PCs unless one has pimped out survival. In general, this should lead to them getting lost, and now making survival checks to find their way back. How many rations did they bring with them? Did they bring proper sleeping equipment or are they fatigued for sleeping on rock the next day?
Third, there be monsters here. Depending on your group, have additional encounters with reasonable Darklands enemies and dangers (oozes, cave ins, green slime etc.) until they decide it is too difficult, or something really over CRed that they can either flee from easily, or spot beforehand and decide to retreat, or something that will be satisfied with killing only one PC for food and let the rest escape, depending on your group's temperament, whatever will best make them decide to turn around. If they persist and contine for days, have them come across a Darklands settlement tha would be suicidal to assault (drow, duergars, derro, etc.), and have them assaulted with continually tougher scouting and defense parties.
If the group is deadset on tracking her down, have one of the monster encounters reveal her corpse and the beastie start with some initial damage to show a struggle. Or have them catch up to her and do another battle until she's defeated.
After all, one does not simply walk into the Darklands, and the AP needs to turn them around. Also, don't underestimate simply telling your players OOC, that the tunnels lead off the AP tracks and into dangers they are not ready to face and realistically would come to a TPK. I find most groups that sign on for an AP are willing to stay on the rails when they know they're going off of them and save the GM some work.
I plan on having my players see dozens of cave fishers roosting in the cavern ceiling and an army of Urdefhans on the march below.
The spaces in Thassilonian ruins are so large because most of them were constructed by giants. Giants of various types were the de facto slave-worker class.
Something I think the AP could have done was give a more upfront version of what a 10,000 year old abandoned ruin might include. Not everyone knows what 'classic' dungeon crawling is or the specifics of what that might mean in Golarion. I found several of my players each had their own idea of what it meant. This only came about in play which caused some interesting situations and misaligned expectations. Part of that is likely a failing on my part. Those events coupled with the brutality of the AP overall (not a criticism on my part; having read the background of what the runelords were into it makes sense; it just leaves a few "REALLY?!" moments) it seemed to slowly disenfranchise my group from enjoying the game since they were largely focused on simply surviving encounters.
That swarm encounter, for instance, is rather unfair for a group that has just met that level of challenge. It'd have been a great encounter just a few levels later when the PCs have more options and staying power and can afford a couple rounds to figure out what actually hurts it. Instead, it feels like a brick wall of wtf as soon as they levelled unless you're prepared for it either by intent or happenstance.
I will say though that, as a GM, I got EXTREME joy out of dashing various metagaming schemes. Most of my players were 'experienced' and tried to play up to what they've previously encountered in other APs, such as the frequency and initial introductions of various monsters, as a measure of how they should equip themselves. In that sense, having things like the swarm in there was excellent for that "abandon hope all ye who enter" feeling that can easily come with venturing into the 10,000 year old ruins of, essentially, megalomaniac wizards who mastered entire schools of magic.
I tried to keep explaining this but they weren't having it. Alas, my group doesn't play anymore and we've moved on to another AP.
Creative Director
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I don't know if this has been answered elsewhere... what is missing from C18, the Hall of Fleshwarping? The heading says its CR 5 but there are no encounters given in the text.
Nothing is missing. At one point, there were some elementals in that room, but they didn't really make much sense being in there since the room itself is about fleshwarping, not elementals. Alas, we forgot to remove the (CR 5) from the encounter's header.
So... there's no fight or challenge there. It's just a room that helps inform the PCs a bit about the Adventure Path's backstory.
This is my first full campaign I'm running and having a great time! In "C11 Lemeure Prison" there are the two Lemeure that Suzerain of Little Erebus wanted 'rescued' which means brought back alive. And I thought to myself, how would I get two mindless hostile things back alive to this demon? And... I didn't have an answer. Any tips?
Note: My PCs haven't reached this far yet, I just want to be prepared.
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This is my first full campaign I'm running and having a great time! In "C11 Lemeure Prison" there are the two Lemeure that Suzerain of Little Erebus wanted 'rescued' which means brought back alive. And I thought to myself, how would I get two mindless hostile things back alive to this demon? And... I didn't have an answer. Any tips?
Note: My PCs haven't reached this far yet, I just want to be prepared.
Food? Supposedly 'helpless' bait?
I could have been the one deciding it for my game, but I think the headband is boosting Craft (alchemy).
Does anyone have any ideas on Khrysm's Headband of Vast Intelligence? I'd rather not have to deconstruct all her skill points to try and figure out which skill the headband is tied to and it's not stated anywhere in the text that I can tell.
Judging from her stats, I'd say the options are
Craft (Alchemy)
Know (Arcana)
Heal? (See side note below)
Perception
Spellcraft
Stealth
Side note: I don't know how they calculated a Heal check of +11. At max, should be +7, the +3 from it being a class skill is wiped out by a -3 Wis modifier.
So, I'd say take your pick, or roll randomly from those (Hey, six options, perfect for a d6)
That being said, it'd make sense if she already knew Craft Alchemy, Know(Arcana), Spellcraft and even Heal. Therefore, if she was picking something that she didn't already have still ranks in, perception or Stealth would be logical.
Edit: SIDE-side note: regarding the Heal rank miscalculation. It seems someone was trying to dump the 4 skill points from favoured class into Heal I think (as they aren't accounted for in HP). So, either someone wasn't watching the cap on skill ranks, or Derro-alchemists have a hidden favored class bonus of +1 on all Heal Skill checks.
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Creative Director
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Just checked my math on Khrysm's stats.
Her headband grants bonuses to Knowledge (arcana), which doesn't affect her stats since she bought ranks in that skill normally.
As for her Heal skill... remember, she's a derro magister (as per the new feat detailed on page 58 of the book), which among other things, gives her a +4 racial bonus on Heal.
Just checked my math on Khrysm's stats.
Her headband grants bonuses to Knowledge (arcana), which doesn't affect her stats since she bought ranks in that skill normally.
As for her Heal skill... remember, she's a derro magister (as per the new feat detailed on page 58 of the book), which among other things, gives her a +4 racial bonus on Heal.
Ah, excellent, that is where that Heal bonus is coming from...Which means that she is missing 4 HP or SP from favored class (or...didn't choose alchemist as favored class? Or are NPCs not written up with favored class bonuses?)
However, I must disagree with the assertion that the headband doesn't affect her skills. Without the headband she would only have 43 skill points, however she has spent 50, which would perfectly account for the Headband.
That happened to me once. I contacted Paizo customer service (since that's where I bought the book) and e-mailed them pictures and they sent me a new book.
Book stores receive damaged books on a semi-regular basis, and there's a mechanism in place for replacing them. You could contact the store where you bought the book or directly get in touch with Paizo. Either option should result in a replacement copy.