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It's a bit underwhelming so far...


Shattered Star

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Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And I don't see how that's a bad thing. Since it's what lets you play a game with four or so players in a party.

Sorry James, that sounds lazy.

There could have been other options to get the players involved, but you chose not to do them.

That's fine, that's your choice, but some people are not going to enjoy that kind of heavy-handedness. Particularly when you've gone out of your way to say, 'ooh, if you don't like the PFS, you don't have to use it in Shattered Star!'

And I don't see how that's a bad thing either.

My party are enjoying Skull & Shackles, they thought the press-ganged aspect was an awesome introduction.

"This doesn't work for my party."

Does not equal: "This is objectively bad."

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah my group think Skull an shakles is one of the best adventure paths to date. So as said before diffrent strokes for diffrent folks


Gorbacz wrote:
Hey Anlerran, how about you go write a couple of award-winning adventures and then lecture the T-rex on how to do his job?

Because I assumed we were having a civil discussion brought up by the fact that a previous poster said they disliked S&S.

I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.

Some players didn't like S&S. I felt it was full of basic errors, from execution to plot to artwork.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber

Also, there's "I subjectively don't like the creative direction on X" and there's "You're objectively heavy-handed and lazy". And they're not the same thing.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Hey Anlerran, how about you go write a couple of award-winning adventures and then lecture the T-rex on how to do his job?

Because I assumed we were having a civil discussion brought up by the fact that a previous poster said they disliked S&S.

I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.

Some players didn't like S&S. I felt it was full of basic errors, from execution to plot to artwork.

This is a discussion forum. If you post your opinions here, prepare to encounter people who disagree with you. They might also disagree with the way you voice your opinion, which is the case here. That's how it works.


I don't understand what the issue is. Although one of my players met Erik Mona and had him hail our Kingmaker nation(we still play that at the start of EVERY GAME), I have yet to change a rule, encounter, NPC, or what have you in an adventure path and have anyone from Paizo show up at my house ready to break my legs for my transgression.


Freehold DM wrote:
I don't understand what the issue is. Although one of my players met Erik Mona and had him hail our Kingmaker nation(we still play that at the start of EVERY GAME), I have yet to change a rule, encounter, NPC, or what have you in an adventure path and have anyone from Paizo show up at my house ready to break my legs for my transgression.

It's not so much a question of them breaking your legs for changing things, but more of how much work it'll be.

For the Pathfinders, that depends on how deeply interwoven into the AP they are. Apparently they're just the group that hires you to go find the McGuffin. Not a big deal to change. If plot was about how getting the McGuffin led to a big internal fight within the Society, then it would be much harder to replace. And it's nice to know that up front.

By way of comparison, they still wouldn't come and break your legs if you wanted to run Skull & Shackles without pirates or even without boats at all, but you'd have to rewrite the thing so thoroughly it would be hard to say you were running the same AP.


Anlerran wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And I don't see how that's a bad thing. Since it's what lets you play a game with four or so players in a party.

Sorry James, that sounds lazy.

There could have been other options to get the players involved, but you chose not to do them.

That's fine, that's your choice, but some people are not going to enjoy that kind of heavy-handedness. Particularly when you've gone out of your way to say, 'ooh, if you don't like the PFS, you don't have to use it in Shattered Star!'

And I don't see how that's a bad thing either.

Even if Paizo came up with different ways with the party to meet such as the typical "met at a tavern" it really would not matter. The party still ends up together 99% of the time so I see no need to waste space listing possible ways the party might know each other. If the GM does not like the auto-meet, that is in most AP's he can come up with something different and have them RP it out. Even with all of the characters being in the Society that does not mean they have to know each other so the RP'ing of them getting to meet for the first time can still be RP'ed.


thejeff wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I don't understand what the issue is. Although one of my players met Erik Mona and had him hail our Kingmaker nation(we still play that at the start of EVERY GAME), I have yet to change a rule, encounter, NPC, or what have you in an adventure path and have anyone from Paizo show up at my house ready to break my legs for my transgression.

It's not so much a question of them breaking your legs for changing things, but more of how much work it'll be.

For the Pathfinders, that depends on how deeply interwoven into the AP they are. Apparently they're just the group that hires you to go find the McGuffin. Not a big deal to change. If plot was about how getting the McGuffin led to a big internal fight within the Society, then it would be much harder to replace. And it's nice to know that up front.

By way of comparison, they still wouldn't come and break your legs if you wanted to run Skull & Shackles without pirates or even without boats at all, but you'd have to rewrite the thing so thoroughly it would be hard to say you were running the same AP.

I've done it before. It's gotten more challenging as I've gotten older, certainly, but if I really liked the adventure path or the idea, I'd change almost everything about it to make it work for me or my players. I've been altering stuff since Dungeon was a monthly periodical, and I've had few complaints from either side of the screen.


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Anlerran wrote:
I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.

You haven't been here long enough, then.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Anlerran wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Hey Anlerran, how about you go write a couple of award-winning adventures and then lecture the T-rex on how to do his job?

Because I assumed we were having a civil discussion brought up by the fact that a previous poster said they disliked S&S.

I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.

Gorb was no less "civil" than you. You called a dev lazy, and Gorb said, "Fine, then let's see you do better." Don't try so hard to sound victimized. I'm having a hard time seeing what you perceive as "loudmouths" trying to silence your dissenting voice.

For what it's worth, I think JJ is right. If you don't get the characters together one way or another, you don't have much of a campaign. That's not lazy, it's just reality. The game doesn't work well with 4 parallel adventures going at the same table. I think most people would agree.

Also, I have few complaints about S&S. I think it's a high-quality AP and my group is having a ton of fun playing it. To each his own, I say.

Edit: Also noticed you removed Gorb's smiley when you quoted him. He wasn't trying to put you down, you know.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Anlerran wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
And I don't see how that's a bad thing. Since it's what lets you play a game with four or so players in a party.

Sorry James, that sounds lazy.

There could have been other options to get the players involved, but you chose not to do them.

That's fine, that's your choice, but some people are not going to enjoy that kind of heavy-handedness. Particularly when you've gone out of your way to say, 'ooh, if you don't like the PFS, you don't have to use it in Shattered Star!'

And I don't see how that's a bad thing either.

Whether or not it sounds lazy, it's something (starting an adventure out with the PCs captured) that we've wanted to try out for a long time. In fact, there were several elements in Skull & Shackles that we've wanted to try out for a while—starting PCs out as prisoners, doing a pirate-themed adventure, presenting an adventure path where evil characters would work as well as neutral or good ones, and so on, but never felt "safe" enough to try because we weren't willing to risk six months of our flagship product line on something that could backfire or end up being something that no one wanted.

To me, the fact that we were able to do this and saw subscriptions continue to increase tells me that Paizo's achieved a place where we ARE able to do increasingly more experimental adventures, including some that are very story-driven instead of being sandboxes, working well for evil characters, or forcing specific "starts" to an adventure. Makes me hopeful we can push things even further in the future, perhaps with Adventure Paths where we require the entire party to be composed of elves, or where everyone in the group must play worshipers of the same deity, or where the party must all be composed of paladins, or an Adventure Path that takes place entirely in a single megadungeon.

That said, we're not going to do these all the time. Part of the reason we're doing Shattered Star, a very traditional old-shchool adventure path, is because we just did a very non-traditional one.

In other words, I'm actually really delighted by the fact that it appears we CAN do risky adventure paths now.

As for the Pathfinder Society... the elements of it in Shattered Star really aren't all that strong. With the exception, really, of parts 1 and 6, the Pathfinder Society's role in each adventure is ALMOST (but not quite) absent, with the exception of a few Pathfinder characters now and then.

Shattered Star is "The adventure path where you return to Varisia, do dungeon crawls, and rebuild a powerful artifact and then get to use it." It's NOT "The adventure path where you play Pathfinder Society characters and become powerful and influential members of that organization." That element is in the adventure path, but it's hardly the driving force, and removing it won't really impact the plot much at all.

I'd rather say "If you don't like the Pathfinder Society, don't worry, they can be downplayed in the Adventure Path pretty easily," rather than not say anything at all, because one of the things I've learned about this industry is that it's pretty important to manage expectations.

That's why we were VERY open about the fact that Skull & Shackles was going to be the type of campaign it ended up being.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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In any case, I do value ALL feedback, good and bad, because that's how we learn from errors and learn from successes.

That said, when you imply folks at Paizo are "lazy," that DOES tend to raise my hackles a little, and when you use language like that on these boards, you should be ready to accept the blowback that might cause. Similar to using loaded terms like "loudmouth" or "4Evengers."

So... please keep this thread on target about what you think isn't going to work about Shattered Star and why it might or might not be underwhelming sounding, and let's leave the sniping and edition war comments and name calling to those parts of the internet I allude to above. I like to think Paizo's boards are above that. I know that times they're not... but help me out here! :-)


James Jacobs wrote:

Makes me hopeful we can push things even further in the future, perhaps with Adventure Paths where we require the entire party to be composed of elves, or where everyone in the group must play worshipers of the same deity, or where the party must all be composed of paladins, or an Adventure Path that takes place entirely in a single megadungeon.

I don't mean to derail this thread any, but..

I eagerly await all of these things (just replace "elves" with "gnomes").

Andoran

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So... an AP where the whole party has to be elven paladins of Iomedae, exploring the new demiplane where Treerazer has begun to rebuild his extraplanar fortress? I'm in!

Andoran

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would love a module still where everyone is a 1st level wizard student at the Acadamae.

Also I think the "railroading" in S&S worked well because the game wasn't forcing players to make a decision (unlike say, Kakishan). It was a situation they found themselves in and had to deal with. People do not choose to get shanghai'd. Just like in Serp Skull where the PCs start off being shipwrecked.


Arnwyn wrote:
Anlerran wrote:
I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.
You haven't been here long enough, then.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Pretty sick of people being jerks here, same old story.

If they want fanboys in an echo chamber, fine. Plenty of other products and stuff out there.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:
Anlerran wrote:
I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.
You haven't been here long enough, then.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Pretty sick of people being jerks here, same old story.

If they want fanboys in an echo chamber, fine. Plenty of other products and stuff out there.

You basically accused James of being lazy because you didn't like a particular AP hook and EVERYONE ELSE is the Jerk?

Cheliax

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Coridan wrote:
I would love a module still where everyone is a 1st level wizard student at the Acadamae.

So would I.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Press-ganging is bound to raise a lot of hackles in many players, fair enough. But lazy and heavy-handed, or bad writing? Press-ganging is a pretty iconic start to a piratical adventure, and the Player's Guide is thoroughly up front about it, so it's not like it's being sprung on the characters as a nasty surprise.


Anlerran wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:
Anlerran wrote:
I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.
You haven't been here long enough, then.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Pretty sick of people being jerks here, same old story.

If they want fanboys in an echo chamber, fine. Plenty of other products and stuff out there.

Just....."wow".

Rule 0 applies to you Anlerran, if you want the cliche tavern meet, roadside meet, or something of your own making, then change it and adjust the opening scenario to your groups liking.

As for the fanboy echo chamber and you taking your ball home, that's your decision. IMHO, you could have written a review and flamed the developers to your hearts content. It probably would have gone better for you.

As for the whole "underwhelming" thing, i disagree. I'm stuck in my new apartment waiting on cable so I had time for a heavier look through. While I'm not a fan of the Pathfinder Society in Golarion, I might have the PCs as agents of one specific NPC Pathfinder instead or I might run it as written.
As for the whole AP synopsis..... It's Indiana Jones meets the Rod of Seven Parts! Love it. Love Magnimar, Korvosa, Kaer Maga, etc. Varisia in general is über cool. I'd love it more if there was a Sandpoint stopover as well. I'm about 60/40 with Greg Vaughan these days but Kudos to this one are in order.

To JJ and the gang, keep the varied AP beginnings coming. To date the only one I didn't care for was the beginning of SD, probably because it's a tad Ocean's Eleven for me.


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I, for one, can't conceive of an AP giving me a treatment for bringing the party together that would be perfect. Not unless we all have to play pre-generated PCs.

Too much preamble is a waste of ink. The GM is inevitably going to have that player who is a warforged, or a tiefling, or whatever, that makes absolutely no sense with the default plot hook. You need something as a default plot hook, but you just couldn't write one that was flexible enough to deal with the freaking players and their weird urges.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:
Chris Kenney wrote:
Some people just have really bad memories of "That one time the GM did something that could have been cool but just sucked." And others don't like the idea of anything bad happening to their character without any control over it, ever. Both buttons are likely to be pressed by having characters start out press-ganged (or otherwise taken prisoner and stripped of equipment.)

It just wouldn't fly with my players. I'm going to use some of the situations or encounters when I do a pirate-hunting game I have planned (the players have an inkling to play Chelaxian privateers), and the generic seaborne encounters could fit anywhere.

But it sounds like Shattered Star can be run for any group right out of the box, substituting the PFS for whatever employers the PCs prefer. In fact, they have gone out of their way to say this ever since the AP was announced.

I don't think the press-ganged aspect adds anything to the adventure, aside from taking away PC choices for their first four levels. It wouldn't have been hard to come up with alternative options, but they wanted to railroad it.

And there were some horrible mis-steps like the Isabela character - they put her on the cover for God's sake, then refuse to let the players interact with her. As written, all you can do is kill her. And S&S is full of this kind of railroading. You can change things, but you're actively fighting the material.

I agree with you on some accounts. The AP is strung together somewhat loosely at times and somewhat liner at others, and I think you are suppose to interweave those two elements so the players do not notice it as much. But that can be a very tricky task for any GM.

I disagree with a lot of the rest though. You sort of need the first AP to be railroady. Every book has about 60 pages of adventure, and it sort of assumes that most of those 60 pages are going to be used, so there is a very finite amount of adventure that can be taken. When you run an AP there is sort of a verbal agreement between the GM and Player that they will have interests that are compatible with the AP. All APs rely on those same assumptions. I mean once you got your boat you could decide to settle down and raise a family in some fishing village or something, or decide you really want to explore pyramids, but if those are your goals you are playing the wrong AP. In Carrion Crown you are expected to explore Harrowstone, in Jade Regent you are expected to go with the caravan, in Smugglers Shiv you are expected to explore the island even though you could in theory just wait on the shore. If anything I assume your PCs will have less freedom in Shattered Star then in Skull and Shackles. The only difference between Skull and Shackles and the other APs I have read are the lack of starting gear, and smaller confinement. A ship vs an island or a town.

Personally I think stuff was the worse thing 3rd edition added to the game. I miss the days of older editions were a +2 Longsword was sort of Godly, but that is even more off topic.


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+1 to

"the freaking players and their wierd urges".

LOL!

I think there's a special exception to railroading where 'beginning a campaign' is concerned.

I haven't read Skull and Shackles, because I've quit reading AP's before I expect to run them out of a forlorn hope that I will find a campaign with a fantastic GM to join.

But my hope would be that the adventure _begins_ with 'the PCs have been press ganged', rather than a staged fight with a forgone conclusion that they lose, and an expectation that they surrender rather than die. The former is definitely not railroading, and actually seems like a really good setup to a pirate game.

Ken


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

But, but but.... Skull & Shackles is mad fun, and it only takes a few plot crumbs to lead the PCs, or you can just let them wander through the Shackles!

I mean different strokes for different folks, but this makes me a little sad.

Yup. awesome fun.

Well didnt quite understand the third part as in having to prove being a pirate by doing some task for someone else/ common "good".

All those who want to should be able to join up in the competition... and with proper sugarcoating, a bit railroady. Not much tho. Im sure the shackles can be defended from "the rock" aswell. Or just (almost) never again setting foot on solid ground again.
Which would force some rethinking on part 4 aswell..

But we have the added lost treasures for that. Im sure a knowledge local check will tell most of the details. And from there a cavesytem/old ruin.. with just as much baddies and treasure as needed.


I gotta say Shattered Star has got me super excited, to the point where I reactivated my AP subscription when it was announced. That meant that I also got all of Skull and Shackles, even though I'm most likely never going to run it. But that's ok, it's a great read and I can cherry-pick interesting stuff, like monsters or NPC's, from it to my hearts content.

The more I read on the foums, the more I regret canceling my subscription in the first place, because the discription of Serpents Skull, Jade Regent and Carrion Crown didn't appeal to me. I got into PFRPG around the time Kingmaker came out, and I'm slowly building up my collection, grabbing the odd volume here and there, or jumping at the chance when Paizo put out a new edition of RotRL or puts Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire on sale for five bucks a book.

With the variety presented in paizo's AP's, I would be amazed if everyone found each new arch as appealing as the last one. But I suspect most people can find something they like in almost every single volume.

.
.
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Oh, and obvious troll is obvious - please don't feed or resort to namecalling. Top props to JJ for his classy response above.


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I, for one, am prepared to wait until I have the first adventure in my hands so I can strip out the "ooo, look you're all Pathfinders innit awesome" before deciding whether or not to be underwhelmed.

In my experience I've had to tweak and alter every AP I've run to fit it into my group. I altered some of the mechanics (and took the villain from generic emo to smoking hot) in Carrion Crown. I altered how Elven society works in Second Darkness. I altered Zorro's plans in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I plan to run Serpent's Skull but I'll have to add a plot. I hope to run Shattered Star and I already know I'll be stripping the PC's involvement in the Pathfinder Society.

I've never run an AP as written for several reasons. I rarely run a standard 4 PC party. My PCs almost never even consider the motives the writers assume. My PCs tend to come up with creative solutions to problems. When I've only got 1 PC (my normal state of gaming for the past 2 APs) these reasons apply even harder.

I've played in 2 APs that were run straight out of the box and I was underwhelmed each time. This makes me sad because one of those APs was Rise of the Runelords. I read the adventures after we finished that AP and I came up with so many ideas that could have been used to make that game special if only the GM had cared enough to develop them.

So... Long story short (too late)...

I expect to have to alter the AP before I run it. That's what I have to do. That's my job as GM. If I run it straight out of the box without tweaking it to fit my group then I deserve to be underwhelmed.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Makes me hopeful we can push things even further in the future, perhaps with Adventure Paths where we require the entire party to be composed of elves, or where everyone in the group must play worshipers of the same deity, or where the party must all be composed of paladins, or an Adventure Path that takes place entirely in a single megadungeon.

I've contemplated putting together a church-sponsored expedition (to retrieve an artifact, say :-). Of course with my luck I'd end up with a whole group of worshippers of Cayden Cailean, and it could rapidly degenerate into an extended pub crawl (not that there's anything wrong with that ...)


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Anlerran wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:
Anlerran wrote:
I didn't realise any critique or disagreement would be met by Paizo's equivalent of loudmouth '4Evengers', shouting down any dissenting voices.
You haven't been here long enough, then.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Pretty sick of people being jerks here, same old story.

If they want fanboys in an echo chamber, fine. Plenty of other products and stuff out there.

More insults, and you are still oblivious as to why you get the replies you do.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

Returning to the fray :)

I actually have an idea for this AP.

My fellow players stay out:
An Aspis Consortium spy who will try to steal the magic football at the end.

I actually don't mind the unusual. In fact, the more far out and ambitious the idea and setting the better I like it. For my money Legacy of Fire stomps on Rise of the Runelords from a great height and Carrion Crown was far better than Kingmaker (which for all it's innovation and novel touches is still fairly vanilla when it comes to setting and story IMO).

I realise this makes me unusual.

I accept that sometimes Paizo has to play it safe. That's fine, I know why you do it and it makes economic sense to do so. I just prefer it when my AP has a touch of the outlandish and unusual.

There are a few bits and pieces of this AP that have piqued my interest. The revisiting of old AP's is cool and the Thassalonian element is always welcome. I'm just fairly confident that I will get more of a kick out of Skull and Shackles than Shattered Star.

I feel that when Paizo really goes out there the AP's are better. I think Council of Thieves would have been far better if it had been full on Les Miserables style revolution against the house of Thrune rather than what we got. I want demiplanes and other worlds. I want to fight extraplanar invaders on the roof of a burning cathedral whilst the ritual to raise the long dead dragon prince of whatever rages on below. I want the spectacular and strange and epic. In short I want Paizo to take risks. Things are better when you do.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Coridan wrote:
I would love a module still where everyone is a 1st level wizard student at the Acadamae.
So would I.

+1!

Qadira

JohnF wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Makes me hopeful we can push things even further in the future, perhaps with Adventure Paths where we require the entire party to be composed of elves, or where everyone in the group must play worshipers of the same deity, or where the party must all be composed of paladins, or an Adventure Path that takes place entirely in a single megadungeon.

I've contemplated putting together a church-sponsored expedition (to retrieve an artifact, say :-). Of course with my luck I'd end up with a whole group of worshippers of Cayden Cailean, and it could rapidly degenerate into an extended pub crawl (not that there's anything wrong with that ...)

Somebody hold my pint/holy symbol and pass me a pen - where do I sign up? :)

Contributor

Mikaze wrote:
Mike Shel wrote:
you're going to find lots of engaging personalities in my volume of the AP and lots of opportunity for rich, talky role play (especially if you use the web supplement that will be available).
Do tell! :)

I was pretty sure James mentioned it in a post somewhere, but I couldn't find it with a quick search.

Basically, a couple of the characters and encounters from my turnover ended up on the cutting room floor for reasons of space, but James decided that they could be offered up as a web enhancement for the AP. I think you might become acquainted with a rather eccentric priest of Groetus, a gang of thugs called the Black Kiss Boys, and a native of Kaer Maga accused of a crime she may or may not have committed. I haven't actually seen the supplement yet myself--I assume I'll see it when you do!


A huge +1 to the megadungeon JJ! Hope it happens. :)


Mike Shel wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Mike Shel wrote:
you're going to find lots of engaging personalities in my volume of the AP and lots of opportunity for rich, talky role play (especially if you use the web supplement that will be available).
Do tell! :)

I was pretty sure James mentioned it in a post somewhere, but I couldn't find it with a quick search.

Basically, a couple of the characters and encounters from my turnover ended up on the cutting room floor for reasons of space, but James decided that they could be offered up as a web enhancement for the AP. I think you might become acquainted with a rather eccentric priest of Groetus, a gang of thugs called the Black Kiss Boys, and a native of Kaer Maga accused of a crime she may or may not have committed. I haven't actually seen the supplement yet myself--I assume I'll see it when you do!

This is new, I think. Will these "web enhancement for the AP" be free or a separate purchase? Pretty cool idea either way. I always enjoy reading the stuff that gets cut when the authors post it on the boards afterward. I used Titos enhancements extensively in Curse.

This sounds to me like the enhancements Legendary Games was trying to sell a while ago except they had to dance around the IP (the whole point of an AP to begin with IMO). Now we can get the same kind of stuff with the IP? Cool.


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Yes, I'd like to see the megadungeon AP too!

Ken

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Yeah, we haven't yet announced the web enhancement, but it is pretty much what Mike said. We had to cut about 5000 words from the adventure and a Mushfen support article in order to make room for the Torag deity article that got bumped from Skull & Shackles because we forgot to order art for it.

Rather than just throw those words away forever, we decided that these bonus encounters and the bonus NPC would be done up as a web enhancement for the adventure—a GM-only web enhancement, since it's extra encounters for "Curse of the Lady's Light."

It'll be released about the time "Curse of the Lady's Light" goes on sale in a little over a month, and will be a free PDF download.

It will NOT be something we'll be doing often, though, since an extra 5,000 words represents a not inconsiderable writing, developing, editing, art, and layout challenge when we've already got a really tight schedule.

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:

Yeah, we haven't yet announced the web enhancement, but it is pretty much what Mike said. We had to cut about 5000 words from the adventure and a Mushfen support article in order to make room for the Torag deity article that got bumped from Skull & Shackles because we forgot to order art for it.

Rather than just throw those words away forever, we decided that these bonus encounters and the bonus NPC would be done up as a web enhancement for the adventure—a GM-only web enhancement, since it's extra encounters for "Curse of the Lady's Light."

It'll be released about the time "Curse of the Lady's Light" goes on sale in a little over a month, and will be a free PDF download.

It will NOT be something we'll be doing often, though, since an extra 5,000 words represents a not inconsiderable writing, developing, editing, art, and layout challenge when we've already got a really tight schedule.

Because of the sheer awesomeness of the writing?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Mike Shel wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Yeah, we haven't yet announced the web enhancement, but it is pretty much what Mike said. We had to cut about 5000 words from the adventure and a Mushfen support article in order to make room for the Torag deity article that got bumped from Skull & Shackles because we forgot to order art for it.

Rather than just throw those words away forever, we decided that these bonus encounters and the bonus NPC would be done up as a web enhancement for the adventure—a GM-only web enhancement, since it's extra encounters for "Curse of the Lady's Light."

It'll be released about the time "Curse of the Lady's Light" goes on sale in a little over a month, and will be a free PDF download.

It will NOT be something we'll be doing often, though, since an extra 5,000 words represents a not inconsiderable writing, developing, editing, art, and layout challenge when we've already got a really tight schedule.

Because of the sheer awesomeness of the writing?

Exactly!

(And because you would send mud sorcerers and Siragle after me to learn me the error of my ways if I did throw those words away forever.)


+1

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Mike Shel wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Yeah, we haven't yet announced the web enhancement, but it is pretty much what Mike said. We had to cut about 5000 words from the adventure and a Mushfen support article in order to make room for the Torag deity article that got bumped from Skull & Shackles because we forgot to order art for it.

Rather than just throw those words away forever, we decided that these bonus encounters and the bonus NPC would be done up as a web enhancement for the adventure—a GM-only web enhancement, since it's extra encounters for "Curse of the Lady's Light."

It'll be released about the time "Curse of the Lady's Light" goes on sale in a little over a month, and will be a free PDF download.

It will NOT be something we'll be doing often, though, since an extra 5,000 words represents a not inconsiderable writing, developing, editing, art, and layout challenge when we've already got a really tight schedule.

Because of the sheer awesomeness of the writing?

Exactly!

(And because you would send mud sorcerers and Siragle after me to learn me the error of my ways if I did throw those words away forever.)

Dude, I didn't realize I had that kind of leverage with you! In that case, quadruple my pay rate, I want a company car, masseuse, and someone to peel my grapes. Also, change your avatar from a TRex to a dwarf--and not one of those tough-looking dwarves; a cute, Disney-style dwarf who whistles while he works. Snap to it! Siragle's tail stinger hungers for thee!


Someone's gonna get their head gnawed on by a T-Rex...

::makes popcorn::


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

The term "over-reach" springs to mind.


ANebulousMistress wrote:

Someone's gonna get their head gnawed on by a T-Rex...

::makes popcorn::

Either that or stabbed by stabbity elf rogue.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mike Shel wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Mike Shel wrote:
you're going to find lots of engaging personalities in my volume of the AP and lots of opportunity for rich, talky role play (especially if you use the web supplement that will be available).
Do tell! :)

I was pretty sure James mentioned it in a post somewhere, but I couldn't find it with a quick search.

Basically, a couple of the characters and encounters from my turnover ended up on the cutting room floor for reasons of space, but James decided that they could be offered up as a web enhancement for the AP. I think you might become acquainted with a rather eccentric priest of Groetus, a gang of thugs called the Black Kiss Boys, and a native of Kaer Maga accused of a crime she may or may not have committed. I haven't actually seen the supplement yet myself--I assume I'll see it when you do!

Black Kiss Boys? I'm imagining a boy band of elves with too much mascara and prepubescent voices ;)


the mighty P could maybe put out a kickstarter if they wanted to do an AP that was pretty high risk

All wizard (i have run two highly successful campaigns where everyone was a wizard, learned v spontaneous and arcane v divine make great thems)

All one race (gnomes maybe setting off to get home or something) or dwarves in a megadungeon

All LG AP (really, really big shiney noble heroes)

with a KS at least the comfort of the money is there and balances the risk


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

Rather than just throw those words away forever, we decided that these bonus encounters and the bonus NPC would be done up as a web enhancement for the adventure—a GM-only web enhancement, since it's extra encounters for "Curse of the Lady's Light."

It'll be released about the time "Curse of the Lady's Light" goes on sale in a little over a month, and will be a free PDF download.

Thank you!

Cheliax

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Will the above mentioned "Mushfen support article" be included in the web enhancement? That'd be especially interessting and quite useful not only for "Curse of the Lady's Light" but also for

Spoiler:
"Crown of Fangs" - there my 2 on weekdays groups are only a couple of sessions away from tracking a certain evil regina to the Sunken Queen so this would really come in handy.

Concerning the thread topic: all my players and myself are PFS members, we like the society and the scenarios and we all are looking forward to returning to Varisia (were we all started with the unforgettable "Rise of the Runelords") as Pathfinders. Having the chance to use fame/prestige within an AP sounds fun so no reservations from here :-).

My only frustration comes from the fact that although it's already Thursday I still haven't received anything from my monthly subscriptions. -.- Very annoying.

Contributor

Steve Geddes wrote:
The term "over-reach" springs to mind.

The grapes or the masseuse?


I'd say the whistling.

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