Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

Kitsune in Kingmaker (Advice & Possible Spoilers)


Kingmaker


Hey, guys. I'm pretty new to Pathfinder, and I'm seeking some advice. This is only my second AP, but I love it. We've been given a lot of freedom to do what we want in this AP, so I'm trying to find out where to take my character. My first character in this campaign was actually slaughtered (werewolf one-shotted her from stealth while she was on watch), so this is my second.

Here's the setup: My first character was a fetchling named Raven (abandoned in the Material Plane by her parents and raised by an infiltrator/thief). She became a spy-for-hire/information broker and her protégé was a kitsune named Kit Megami. Both had a lot in common - hiding their true races from others, very skilled infiltrators and both great at espionage in general, etc. Very different personalities, though. Anyway, I started the kitsune off as a Rogue (Kitsune Trickster), and we're only level 2, but I plan to eventually become a Master Spy at level 8. I'm thinking that I should dip into one of two classes: Ninja (GM is allowing it) or Bard (Detective). Or I could go 7 levels of Rogue.

So, here's my question: Which would be better for the role I'm playing? As a Rogue 2/Ninja 5, I'll be exceptionally stealthy and more powerful in combat as long as I can sneak attack. As a Rogue 2/Bard (Detective) 5, I'll be more versatile and capable of filling a lot of roles, but much less useful as a combatant. I'm basically intending to be our party's diplomat, spy, and interrogator.

Personally, I'm leaning towards the Bard. My party has practically destroyed every single challenge we've come across, mostly without my help (outside of planning). In fact, only two creatures have given us trouble so far, a Shambling Mound and a Werewolf.

Kingmaker Spoiler:
The bandits at the Thorn River camp didn't stand a chance. Only one of us took any damage, and it's because Kressle was camping in the woods and caught one of our fighters flat-footed (she was promptly pinned to a tree with an arrow).

The party is made up of a human aldori sword fighter, a gnome synthesist summoner, a half-orc seer oracle, a svirfneblin fighter, and a goblin bard/barbarian. The goblin is a dervish dancer, so no support. The half-orc is our healer. And the gnome is more of a melee fighter than a caster.

Oh, and my kitsune has the Fast Shifter ability and the Realistic Likeness feat, so she's pretty spectacular at disguising herself.

Andoran

You can't multiclass Rogue and Ninja, since Ninja (like all alternate classes) is effectively just a particularly complex Rogue Archetype. This is gone into in the Alternate Class description in UC.

It'd be like multiclassing normal Rogue with Knife Master...simply not allowed.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

You can't multiclass Rogue and Ninja, since Ninja (like all alternate classes) is effectively just a particularly complex Rogue Archetype. This is gone into in the Alternate Class description in UC.

It'd be like multiclassing normal Rogue with Knife Master...simply not allowed.

My GM is allowing it, if that's the option I take. I'm leaning away from it, though. As a Bard, I'd have a better will save, spells in case my natural talents fail, and I could still support combat.

...or I could just go 7 Rogue (Kitsune Trickster).


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, you are also allowed to multiclass from Paladin into Antipaladin?

Do your ninja and rogue levels stack for purposes of prerequisites?

There is a reason you cannot multiclass into the same class.


Paladin and Antipaladin is a particularly stupid example because of conflicting alignment requirements. You can't multiclass Paladin with Druid or Barbarian either.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

With the proper alignment change, you can multiclass Paladin/Druid/Barbarian.

Cheliax

blackbloodtroll wrote:
With the proper alignment change, you can multiclass Paladin/Druid/Barbarian.

Eeyup. You don't need all those class features. You just multiclass for the sheer exfoliating thrill.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, a Monk can take levels in Barbarian, and Antipaladin, and retain all abilities, but no longer progress as a Monk.


I would go for the Bard any day. If this was a new character I would have suggested a straight Archeologist Bard instead of any levels in Rouge. Pick your spells to boost your skills not for combat. Vanish is a great 1st level spell and can be replaced with Invisibility and even greater invisibility at higher levels. Put a point in every knowledge and you will have more skills than a rouge. You will also get a some rouge talents and a bonus to Perception and Disable Device.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I would go for the Bard any day. If this was a new character I would have suggested a straight Archeologist Bard instead of any levels in Rouge. Pick your spells to boost your skills not for combat. Vanish is a great 1st level spell and can be replaced with Invisibility and even greater invisibility at higher levels. Put a point in every knowledge and you will have more skills than a rouge. You will also get a some rouge talents and a bonus to Perception and Disable Device.

I'm already level 2 Rogue.

What about a Vivisectionist Alchemist?


Interesting party, btw.


caith wrote:
Interesting party, btw.

Haha, thanks. Kingmaker ended up being the perfect campaign for us. We all wanted to try out the ARG and our GM just gave us license to do it. It's been a loooot of fun.

Grand Lodge

Restores100HP wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I would go for the Bard any day. If this was a new character I would have suggested a straight Archeologist Bard instead of any levels in Rouge. Pick your spells to boost your skills not for combat. Vanish is a great 1st level spell and can be replaced with Invisibility and even greater invisibility at higher levels. Put a point in every knowledge and you will have more skills than a rouge. You will also get a some rouge talents and a bonus to Perception and Disable Device.

I'm already level 2 Rogue.

What about a Vivisectionist Alchemist?

If you're character isn't evil or at the very least creepy, I'd probably suggest avoiding that archetype.

Since vivisection is experimental surgery conducted on a, "living" organism.


MassivePauldrons wrote:
Restores100HP wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I would go for the Bard any day. If this was a new character I would have suggested a straight Archeologist Bard instead of any levels in Rouge. Pick your spells to boost your skills not for combat. Vanish is a great 1st level spell and can be replaced with Invisibility and even greater invisibility at higher levels. Put a point in every knowledge and you will have more skills than a rouge. You will also get a some rouge talents and a bonus to Perception and Disable Device.

I'm already level 2 Rogue.

What about a Vivisectionist Alchemist?

If you're character isn't evil or at the very least creepy, I'd probably suggest avoiding that archetype.

Since vivisection is experimental surgery conducted on a, "living" organism.

Living doesn't necessarily mean unwilling. There are numerous accounts in history of sick or injured folks volunteering themselves for science! One instance involved a man with a nasty stomach wound allowing a doctor to insert a plug into his side that would allow the doctor to study the contents of his stomach. This resulted in us understanding how digestion works in humans. The vivisectionist could be a doctor who looks for volunteers to perform his experiments, and even pays them. Researchers in modern society do this all the time! Are they evil? Not necessarily. Arguments could be made for chaotic neutral, perhaps even chaotic good!

Andoran

MassivePauldrons wrote:


If you're character isn't evil or at the very least creepy, I'd probably suggest avoiding that archetype.

Since vivisection is experimental surgery conducted on a, "living" organism.

It's actually more like disection (but with a live victim)...but that doesn't mean anything. It's just a name. Oracles need not really predict the future and Barbarians can be from a civilized culture...the names are just that. Names.

As to the actual question, Vivisectionist is good if you want decent skills, some self-buff spells, and continued Sneak Attack progression. Debatably worth it...though, again, you might've been better off just going with straight Vivisectionist.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
MassivePauldrons wrote:


If you're character isn't evil or at the very least creepy, I'd probably suggest avoiding that archetype.

Since vivisection is experimental surgery conducted on a, "living" organism.

It's actually more like disection (but with a live victim)...but that doesn't mean anything. It's just a name. Oracles need not really predict the future and Barbarians can be from a civilized culture...the names are just that. Names.

As to the actual question, Vivisectionist is good if you want decent skills, some self-buff spells, and continued Sneak Attack progression. Debatably worth it...though, again, you might've been better off just going with straight Vivisectionist.

I agree. Just because I'd be a "Vivisectionist" doesn't mean I'd have to cut people open and experiment on them. It's just the name of the class. And it sort of makes sense for my rogue to know the inner workings of the body. She's a great shapeshifter, so it kind of works with that too.

Anyway, Deadmanwalking makes a good point. Adding sneak attack damage would be nice, and some of the discoveries would be extremely helpful. Unfortunately, I can't go straight Vivisectionist, since I'm already a level 2 Rogue. And Master Spy makes the most sense for my character and what she's doing, but I may change my mind before I get there. I don't know.

EDIT: Also, I'm currently a Kitsune Trickster (Rogue Archetype) and I get Charm Person as a spell-like ability at level 3. Should I wait to get that before I dip into Vivisectionist?

EDIT 2: Why did this get moved to the Kingmaker forum? It hardly falls under that category.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Kingmaker / Kitsune in Kingmaker (Advice & Possible Spoilers) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.