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New GM need some advice


Advice


okay, so i'm new to the genre of roleplaying games, I've played 4th edition dnd a little but wasn't too thrilled so i moved to pathfinder. anyway, i am the dm in my new campaign and we are starting with the beginners box then moving on to rise of the runelords. i have a few questions about gameplay. how do i handle wear and tear on the PC's gear? and how can i encourage my players to get more into the roleplaying aspect of the game? in the beginners box roleplaying is limited but onve they start with the runelord campaign i want them to be fully into the story and feel like they are telling it. we've only had one session so far, so i figure as we keep going more questions will arise. thanks in advance for any advice/tips!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One piece of advice about getting players into role playing is give them options! Use NPCs to start conversations and tell stories. Remember every NPC doesn't have to be some type of plot token. Sometimes a lonely drunk just wants a drinking buddy. Sometimes the single girl just wants to dance at the dance. Sometimes the farmer just needs help getting the wheel back on his wagon. Pepper that stuff into the game. You may need to go fishing as I call it. What I mean is sometimes the fish don't bite on a worm. So try a leech. Maybe a minnow but eventually they will bite.


The best way I know of to get new gamers to RP is push them to and reward them for staying in character. I don't mean taping their ears to an elf point or trying to speak with a dwarfish accent (though if you all like that there is nothing wrong with it).

Ex: A new player will often say something like,

Player, "The fighter will try to intimidate him into giving us info."
GM, "Ok, what do you say to him?"
Player, "Uhmm... threatening stuff."
GM, "You actually say the words 'threatening stuff'?"
Player, "What? No, I mean I make threats."
GM, "Sure, tell me what threats you tell him."
Player, "Uh... I put my axe in front of his face and say 'Tell us where they went.'"
GM, "Yeah, he'd find that pretty intimidating. So roll an intimidate check and take a bonus of +1 for decent threat."

Hopefully after a while you won't have to go through the first few lines very often.

Wear and tear is generally not tracked in most pen-n-paper RPG's. It is very difficult to track in a non-computer game environment. Also, PF is a fairly high magic game system. So it is easy to hand wave that away by just saying the wizard can just use a mending cantrip every so often if things are looking too beat up.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

Kydeem and Pan are wise. That's good advice.

The trick with RotR is to make Sandpoint memorable. I'd recommend spending time introducing Ameiko Kaijutsu, Shalelu Androsana, Belor Hemlock and the rest. Try to speak in their voice, not necessarily an accent but how they would talk, what words they would choose etc. If you can hold a conversation between your players and multiple NPC's without explaining who is talking then you'll be going in the right direction.

Wear and tear on gear? Ignore it. There are no rules for it so don't worry about it.


I guess I failed to mention the other side of that is you doing the same thing.

Don't say, "The mayor is really angry at you for disturbing him."

Do say, "What is the meaning of this? Who gave you the authority to inflict me with your presence during my celebration? Well, answer me you buffoon! If you don't give me an answer I like immediatly I'll have my guards haul you out of here in chains! Do you hear me?!?"


As far as wear and tear on equipment goes its best to assume they are taking care of it in the background. Given there's a zero level spell that cleans stuff and one that fixes stuff unless they encounter a weapon eating monster just assume things get fixed at camp etc.

Scarab Sages

Don't try to track wear and tear - it's annoying and kind of pointless. If you want to, you can ask the party to "Spend 5 gold pcs on upkeep and repair of your weapons and armor" after coming out of a dungeon. Don't make a big deal about it, though.


thanks for the advice, really good stuff.
We had a session this evening and came out with a few questions about the rules, the answers might be somewhere hidden in the message boards but it'd be nice if you guys could give your input:
so here it goes
1. Does holding a shield apply a penalty to hit as if holding on off hand weapon?
2. When a ranged character is firing into a melee does she take the -4 penalty even if an allied character is not physically in the way? (like the monster is directly between the melee character and the ranged character or at a right angle so that even if the arrow goes straight past the monster it still wouldn't hit the PC)
3. I have a rogue who prefers ranged combat, he wants to go Arcane Archer and we were wondering if he needs to take a level in an arcane caster, or if the rogue talent Minor Magic and Major Magic? I think this is a no, because this allows him to use the spells as 'spell-like' abilities not necessarily spells.
4. Before your BAB gets high enough to take 2 attacks in a full round attack, is there any purpose to doing a full round attack unless you are doing a combat maneuver?
5. If someone cast obscuring mist and are concealed within it, can they roll to go into stealth even if they would normally be in line of sight? And if a rogue makes a ranged attack out of stealth do they apply sneak attack damage (given that they are withing 30 feet)?

Those are the questions that arose today in our session that I could not find answers do in the core rulebook.

Thank you again for your help!!


Answers as I see it, though I am not the greatest of rules lawyers.

Morphelis wrote:
... 1. Does holding a shield apply a penalty to hit as if holding on off hand weapon? ...

Not sure exactly what you are saying here.

Is the PC trying to use a shield and 2 other weapons? If so, you can't really do that unless you have 3 arms. I guess you could have a bucler straped to the arm and not use it while fighting with 2 weapons.
Or
Is the PC fighting with a weapon and a shield but trying to hit someone with the shield instead of defending with it? If trying to bash with the shield, take standard two weapon fighting penalties.
Or
Is the PC fighting with weapon and shield only attacking with the weapon in the primary hand? In this case, no penalty.

Morphelis wrote:
...2. When a ranged character is firing into a melee does she take the -4 penalty even if an allied character is not physically in the way? (like the monster is directly between the melee character and the ranged character or at a right angle so that even if the arrow goes straight past the monster it still wouldn't hit the PC)...

By the RAW (rules as written) yes, you take the penalty. Some groups house rule it different. In our group if the target is larger and in the way, I do not give a penalty.

Morphelis wrote:
...3. I have a rogue who prefers ranged combat, he wants to go Arcane Archer and we were wondering if he needs to take a level in an arcane caster, or if the rogue talent Minor Magic and Major Magic? I think this is a no, because this allows him to use the spells as 'spell-like' abilities not necessarily spells...

Correct. A spell like ability does NOT make him a caster. Will have to take a level of a casting class. (oops)

Morphelis wrote:
...4. Before your BAB gets high enough to take 2 attacks in a full round attack, is there any purpose to doing a full round attack unless you are doing a combat maneuver? ...

If all you are doing is attacking, then no. It doesn't really gain you anything that I know of.

Morphelis wrote:
...5. If someone cast obscuring mist and are concealed within it, can they roll to go into stealth even if they would normally be in line of sight? ...

I would probably allow it. I'm not certain of RAW.

Morphelis wrote:
...And if a rogue makes a ranged attack out of stealth do they apply sneak attack damage (given that they are withing 30 feet)? ...

No.


1 Having a weapon or shield in your off hand gives you no penalty to hit. (Assuming you're not trying to also use a two-handed weapon or whatever.) It's only trying to get extra attacks by using two weapons (or a weapon and a shield bash attack) that gives you penalties to hit.
5 Obscuring mist makes it impossible to see someone more than five feet away, so I'd say you can use stealth - though the enemy will remember where you were last.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Morphelis wrote:


1. Does holding a shield apply a penalty to hit as if holding on off hand weapon?

If all you are doing is equipping the shield to gain its AC bonus, no, there are no penalties to hit.

If you want to make a shield bash, i.e., hit somebody with the shield, AND you are also attacking with your weapon the same round, then you follow the two weapon fighting rules as normal (so yes, there is an attack penalty for both attacks). Note this is just like any other two weapon attack so you need a full attack to do it.

If all you do is make a shield bash, but do not attack with your weapon, then there are no attack penalties.

Do note that whenever you make a shield bash, you lose your shield bonus to AC for the round unless you have the Improved Shield Bash feat.

Quote:


2. When a ranged character is firing into a melee does she take the -4 penalty even if an allied character is not physically in the way? (like the monster is directly between the melee character and the ranged character or at a right angle so that even if the arrow goes straight past the monster it still wouldn't hit the PC)

Yes, as Kydeem notes, the penalty applies.

If the PC is physically in the way, the monster may also get a +4 cover bonus to AC (see the cover rules). Of course, a lot of people ignore this because it's a pain to keep track of.

Quote:


3. I have a rogue who prefers ranged combat, he wants to go Arcane Archer and we were wondering if he needs to take a level in an arcane caster, or if the rogue talent Minor Magic and Major Magic? I think this is a no, because this allows him to use the spells as 'spell-like' abilities not necessarily spells.

I think Kydeem left a "not" out of his reply, given his context. :) A rogue does need to take a level of an arcane caster class (bard, sorcerer, wizard, summoner, witch) before leveling into Arcane Archer. SLAs do not make you a caster.

Quote:


4. Before your BAB gets high enough to take 2 attacks in a full round attack, is there any purpose to doing a full round attack unless you are doing a combat maneuver?

Yes, if you are two weapon fighting or using Rapid Shot.

Quote:


5. If someone cast obscuring mist and are concealed within it, can they roll to go into stealth even if they would normally be in line of sight? And if a rogue makes a ranged attack out of stealth do they apply sneak attack damage (given that they are withing 30 feet)?

Yes, you can use Stealth if you have concealment, which I believe the mist grants. For your other question, re-read the Stealth rules and pay attention to the section on sniping. Pay attention to the actions it takes to enter Stealth and leave it as well.

Welcome to GMing and good luck!


DeathQuaker wrote:
... I think Kydeem left a "not" out of his reply, given his context. :) ...

Opps. Thanks for the catch. I fixed it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I second the advice on making NPCs memorable to encourage roleplaying. My players slowly warmed to being in character for social exchanges. One even yells bad puns in battle now (he's an alchemist).

What really turned my players on to roleplaying their characters, even though many are actors or otherwise involved in theatre, was having them choose NPC allies in Cauldron in our Shackled City campaign. A few memorable roleplaying exchanges from me as a now infamous Gnoll I made on a whim, and they had become "themselves".


people seem to have missed the rest of your question 5 line: the "And if a rogue makes a ranged attack out of stealth do they apply sneak attack damage (given that they are withing 30 feet)?"

the quick answer is yes, but according to raw it only applies to first attack out of stealth, so no sneak attack on extra attacks, although some groups houserule that away.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

When determining whether an archer's target has cover, the archer gets to pick one corner of his square. If that spot has a clear line to all four corners of the target's square, the target doesn't get a cover bonus. This goes for most ranged attacks.

If the obstacle giving cover is no more than half the archer's height and he is closer to the obstacle than his opponent is, the archer can ignore that cover.

If a creature takes up more than one square, when calculating cover the archer can pick any one square as his target.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

For settling their gear, charge them a few gold once in a while, then ignore it the rest of the time.


hmmm...

I read "out of stealth' to mean the rogue is not hiding in stealth, which would mean no sneak attack.

If "out of stealth" means attacking from stealth, then sneak attack damage on the first attack.


okay cool, thanks everyone. Also the druid in our group is training craft:alchemy, and the rules on this are kind of vague. He wants to start crafting acid, he is going to buy an alchemist set. I don't know what materials are required for acid, or how I should go about his crafting of it. Also, he bought a vial of acid when he rolled his character and wants to dip his darts in it, I told him he can approximately dip 50 darts into the acid, and each one does 1 acid damage on a succesful hit. Does this sound reasonable, I couldn't find the rules on acid in the core rulebook. Thanks again everyone, you're making my game run way smoother!!


Does he have hypodermic darts? If not, wouldn't the darts just burn up or dissolve in their acid bath?

Otherwise I think your solution is elegant.

Crafting items usually comes down to 2 things: money and time, and one begets the other. A vial of acid costs 10 gp and looking at the Craft skill making it requires a DC 15 skill check. The crafter pays 1/3 the cost (or 3 gp) for the raw materials; caustic chemicals, bases to stabilize reactions, extra beakers and a ceramic flask. Now...on to the main event!

In order to determine the time it takes convert the GP value of the item to SP (silver); this means multiply the cost by 10. In the case of the acid this means 100. Each time you roll your check and succeed, multiply your successful roll times the DC of the craft. Every crafting check represents 1 week of work (or fraction thereof). Once that equals your SP cost you're done crafting!

Ex: craft acid
DC 15; Cost 10gp
Cost for raw materials: 3gp
Crafting cost: 100gp
Minimum successful roll: 15 x DC 15, for a total of 300

Just looking at the minimum roll, it appears that just succeeding at one craft check allows you to craft a vial of acid in AT LEAST 2 days time (possibly faster).

Clear as mud?


Oh, and as for roleplaying; if you're all new to the game together then one of the things that will help your players get into it is your enthusiasm and personal touches. Not just in NPC's although kudos to everyone for their awesome suggestions to that point; spot on everybody!

But things like giving an important magic item a bit of history; working the characters directly into the story of the world around them; really playing up the point that they are something special will help.

Use the things they suggest. If they say "My guy has a special red tower on his shield for my family" then put in another red tower shield somewhere; maybe on an enemy's arm. Your player will wonder why his family crest is on the arm of the BBEG (Big Bad Evil Guy).

Also I like what people have said about rewards for roleplaying. I use NPC boons; story-based rewards that may not have an obvious monetary or magic source but are bestowed regardless by the NPCs influenced by the palyers.

I had my PC's go out of their way at first level to search a lair, almost die fighting a couple giant spiders, and even go through a skill challenge to find some kidnapped townsfolk. But then when the immediate battle was over but they were still in the midst of the dungeon they really roleplayed talking with the victims, making sure they were ok and assessing how weak they were. I was impressed.

None of these NPCs had any skills of note or gear to repay the party with, nor could they do anything to help out in their weakened condition. The scene ended, the party secured a way out and eventually got everyone to safety. In the "epilogue" to the adventure one of the PCs went to visit the little girl who's father they'd saved (among others). Out of character the player had mentioned she wanted a home base in town that the party could really make their own. Well when the PC showed up to talk with the little girl her dad showed the character his attic space and then offered it to the party. It has it's own outer stairway, more than enough room for the group and a doors that lock.

After we completely wrapped the game I made a point to tell the players I was impressed and that the "home base" was something they'd earned for good roleplaying. It's not much; only saves them a few gp a month, but it meets a minor goal they'd set for themselves and gives them instant access to at least 2 NPCs in the town.

I hope this helps.

Sovereign Court

Morphelis wrote:
okay cool, thanks everyone. Also the druid in our group is training craft:alchemy, and the rules on this are kind of vague. He wants to start crafting acid, he is going to buy an alchemist set. I don't know what materials are required for acid, or how I should go about his crafting of it. Also, he bought a vial of acid when he rolled his character and wants to dip his darts in it, I told him he can approximately dip 50 darts into the acid, and each one does 1 acid damage on a succesful hit. Does this sound reasonable, I couldn't find the rules on acid in the core rulebook. Thanks again everyone, you're making my game run way smoother!!

If he has craft alchemy and an alchemy kit, he's set. All he has to do its pay one half of the cost (raw materials, but abstracted to minimize hassle) and succeed at a dc 15 check.

For crafting, may i suggest Making craft work which is an excellent book. I humbly ask one of the other posters to post the link, because i am posting this from a phone.

As for the acid dipping, i don't think so. A vital that does 1d6 points of damage? Max 6 arrows. And i wouldn't allow it. Its an ounce of liquid. Not nearly enough for 50 arrows.


One of the biggest things I can give advice on is for you to not change to many rules(such as with house rules) if any at all until you start to learn how they work and how they will interact with other systems in the game. Remember to have fun with your players and remember that its your job as GM to be moderator and narrator, even though you might plan the story remember that it's theirs and try to have fun with it. Also I would advise you to read over the GameMastery Guide, it has a lot of helpful advice for things both in game and out of game that would hinder a good experience, and what you can do to to deal with them when they come up, also continue to read and write on the forums they have been helpful in the past for me a lot! Hope this helps a ton! Good luck and have fun! Also I agree with Mark with what he said about the NPC boon idea, I do that when I can in my own gaming sessions.


Morphelis wrote:
okay cool, thanks everyone. Also the druid in our group is training craft:alchemy, and the rules on this are kind of vague. He wants to start crafting acid, he is going to buy an alchemist set. I don't know what materials are required for acid, or how I should go about his crafting of it. Also, he bought a vial of acid when he rolled his character and wants to dip his darts in it, I told him he can approximately dip 50 darts into the acid, and each one does 1 acid damage on a succesful hit. Does this sound reasonable, I couldn't find the rules on acid in the core rulebook. Thanks again everyone, you're making my game run way smoother!!

Thats really generous on the acid tipped arrows!


TheRonin wrote:
Morphelis wrote:
okay cool, thanks everyone. Also the druid in our group is training craft:alchemy, and the rules on this are kind of vague. He wants to start crafting acid, he is going to buy an alchemist set. I don't know what materials are required for acid, or how I should go about his crafting of it. Also, he bought a vial of acid when he rolled his character and wants to dip his darts in it, I told him he can approximately dip 50 darts into the acid, and each one does 1 acid damage on a succesful hit. Does this sound reasonable, I couldn't find the rules on acid in the core rulebook. Thanks again everyone, you're making my game run way smoother!!
Thats really generous on the acid tipped arrows!

Although I say that, is it any different than him taking a whetstone to each arrow to get a +1 damage bonus? Its faster but more expensive. So in retrospect I say its a smart idea. of course the question is then, how does he do this? Move action?


Great advice by all. If I were to throw my 2 coppers into the pot:

1. Be flexible. Try not to automatically say "no" to the players ideas. When in doubt make them roll for it. Lady Luck has a way of bringing the awesome. However, "No plan survives first contact with the players." Have a few other ideas fleshed out to improvise. With an AP it can be difficult but remember it's just a guideline. See rule 2

2. Behind the GM screen, things play out as needed. I'm not talking about fudging numbers (but sometimes, maybe, kinda, sorta) I mean things like the big running battle that is suposed to be high drama and a player does a tactic out of left field, that would make it anticlimatic. Give the pc a moment to shine; then Re-enforcements Arrive! that mook was really a Lt. for BBEG with more up his sleeve! colateral damage that needs attention, etc... See rule 3

3. Have fun!!! It is a zero sum game. NOT a competition. Remove the GM vs Player mentality from the arena. The players & you are crafting a great story with awesome experiences. Done right, you will talk about some of the crazy crap that happened for years. From the epic wins to the mighty fumbles! Only if you are willing to give them a chance. See rule 1


thanks everyone, I'm preparing for another session this afternoon. I am planning on looking over all the people of sandpoint to get familiar with them and be ready to have a few conversations with the PC's. No doubt new questions will arise, but I feel that from your advice I am already much more prepared then I was last time. Thanks again!


Morphelis wrote:
... he bought a vial of acid when he rolled his character and wants to dip his darts in it, I told him he can approximately dip 50 darts into the acid, and each one does 1 acid damage on a succesful hit. Does this sound reasonable, I couldn't find the rules on acid in the core rulebook ...

It's not horribly overpowered, but I probably would not have allowed it. However, I'm an engineer and am often accused of being too technical.

Most acids are at least as damaging to metal (dart tip) as they are to organics (human flesh). Dipping a dart in acid would immediatly begin to eat away at the dart. If there was some fluid left on the tip that had not yet interacted with the metal, throwing it hard and fast enough to hit and injure a moving target would tend to shake it off. If there just happened to be some fluid left on the tip when it reached the target, it would be wipped off when it passed through any armor, clothing, or heavy fur. Acids are not sticky and don't really dry out for an active residue.
I just can't imagine that as doing any appreciable damage that way. Now if you have a hypodermic dart, that could be nasty. Injected acid should be much more damaging than just splashed on.

There are rules for throwing acid because that is the way it is usually applied.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For the acid thing:

First, I would use the rules for applying poison to a weapon as a place to start (suggestion: if you can't find a rule for a specific thing, try to think of what is similar that there IS a rule for, and go from there):

PRD wrote:
Applying poison to a weapon or single piece of ammunition is a standard action. Whenever a character applies or readies a poison for use there is a 5% chance that he exposes himself to the poison and must save against the poison as normal. This does not consume the dose of poison. Whenever a character attacks with a poisoned weapon, if the attack roll results in a natural 1, he exposes himself to the poison. This consumes the poison on the weapon. Characters with the poison use class feature do not risk accidentally poisoning themselves.

We see that it takes a standard action to apply the substance to the weapon, and there is a 5% chance of hurting yourself when applying it. I think I would actually keep that for applying acid to a weapon--there's always a chance your hands will slip and you'll burn yourself with the acid (taking the 1 point instead). I think I'd follow the same guidelines here.

As for how many pieces of ammunition... I think 50 is too much, you can't even affect more than 20 pieces of ammunition with a magic oil. 1 piece of ammunition from the poison rules seems too limited--and acid is not as damaging as the poison potentially is, although it depends on your POV. I think I'll look at other alchemical substances... not a lot in core you apply to a weapon, but the APG has weapon blanches that you can apply to 10 pieces of ammunition. That sounds about right.

As for the realism/simulationist aspects--will the acid hurt the dart, how does the dart deliver the acid... that's up to you. If they're blowgun darts, which makes a lot of sense, then they probably can hold the acid much the way they hold poison and inject it (the "hypodermic" darts others mention).

You could also have the PC research making a new acid--maybe a bog standard acid flask won't work for making a weapon corrosive--at least not without risking corroding the weapon. After all, those are designed to be not very viscous, so they can do acid damage. But I can see someone researching acids like those secreted by oozes, and crafting something sticky that will not damage metal but will hurt flesh just fine. I would use the cost of an acid flask or maybe alchemist's fire to determine the crafting DC, but rather than be a thrown weapon, it can be an acid that is applied to weapons (and can only be used usefully in that way).

There's other ways--maybe you rule the acid will stick to the dart long enough to harm the target, but it will destroy the dart so you have no chance of recovering it afterward. Etc. etc.

Of course, I realize I'm saying this after you've already made the call and may not be able to go back on your call--which by the way was a fine ballpark guess on the fly. But something to think about for the future.


Okay cool, he actually opted not to apply the acid to the darts and just throw the vial at a group of goblins. So the questions that have arisen from today's session.
The rogue took as a rogue talent rapid shot and was wondering if during his full round attack, he can target more than 1 creature? Or if both arrows must be aimed at the same creature?
Also (this might better be directed to a RotR thread, but whatever) in the adventure path, under Tsuto's gear it listed a composite shortbow (+1 strength), does this +1 strength imply that the wielder gets a +1 bonus to his/her strength score?
One last question, I only have access to the Core Rulebook (I am working on getting some money together for the APG and GM Guide) I do not know the rules for tumbling. Today the rogue was tripped by a goblin and then surrounded by 3 of the little buggers and wanted to roll out of the situation without provoking AoO's. Can you shed light onto the general rules for tumbling and how to apply roll/tumble to this situation?

Again thank you all!!


Also, I am looking to take part in a game led by an experienced game master to get myself more familiar. If you know of any resources to find local games, or even internet based games, please forward me some info on it please! :)


One more thing, as far as resting in a dungeon goes. If the PC's run out of spells or want to heal up, can they just set up camp in a room of the dungeon they have cleared and rest for the evening? I imagine if they try this I can do some sort of random encounter that might or might not happen. If they get interrupted, would they lose the benefits of an 8-hour rest? I ran a group in 4th edition DnD last year where the party rested after every fight (although in 4th you were pretty much back to full strength after a nights rest). Some of my players are from that group and I am worried that they might take an extended rest (multiple 8 hour spans) to heal up fully before pressing on, which kind of defeats the purpose of a dungeon crawl. Advice?

Silver Crusade

Morphelis wrote:
One more thing, as far as resting in a dungeon goes. If the PC's run out of spells or want to heal up, can they just set up camp in a room of the dungeon they have cleared and rest for the evening? I imagine if they try this I can do some sort of random encounter that might or might not happen. If they get interrupted, would they lose the benefits of an 8-hour rest? I ran a group in 4th edition DnD last year where the party rested after every fight (although in 4th you were pretty much back to full strength after a nights rest). Some of my players are from that group and I am worried that they might take an extended rest (multiple 8 hour spans) to heal up fully before pressing on, which kind of defeats the purpose of a dungeon crawl. Advice?

Well, that really depends. In a really long dungeon crawl it might be a good idea to think of a room which is easily defendable from monsters if a rest is *really* necessary - if you plan multiple really hard encounters, for example. Another idea might be to give them some potions and scrolls to find in the dungeon to avoid the need to rest - if they rest anyway (without any proper means to defend the room easily), you can very well send them some monsters. Even if the dungeon crawl does not have some sort of time limit (they have to reach the end before dawn to stop a ritual, they have to find a cure for a raging disease...you get the idea), the monsters in the dungeon might not be so happy about the group of adventurers hanging around their home for a whole day. They might get reinforcements or prepare something nasty for them.


@ Morph: Rapid Shot allows the character to attack multiple targets. Composite Shortbow (+1 Str) means that if the player has a strength bonus it allows up to +1 from the strength bonus to be applied to the damage on a successful attack.

Tumbling: start with the Acrobatics skill - if you want to move through a square that's THREATENED by an enemy w/out provoking an AoO (Attack of Opportunity) the base DC of the roll is the enemy's CMD. Succeed and you can move PAST that enemy. If you want to move RIGHT THROUGH a square OCCUPIED by an enemy, add +5 to the DC of moving past them.

These boards have online campaigns. Also I posted here to get the 2 players in my other campaign; I just posted looking for players around my home town and these players responded. Finally look around at the links to the Pathfinder Society gameplay; there's usually a PFS group playing at a local game store which is another resource.

Resting: yes, they can rest in a dungeon and yes, you as the GM can make this as easy or hard on them as you'd like, though there are no hard and fast rules about it. Also there's a TON of houserules out there about short rests, different ways to interpret hit points and other general things to extend what is referred to as the "15 minute workday". This means that the characters only ACTUALLY spend 15 minutes of their day adventuring, then the rest of it resting.

Personally I like Evil Lincon's Injury/Strain variant of hit points. This supposes that most damage the players take is Strain; inconsequential aches, pains and fatigue suffered in battle. Enough Strain will kill you but if you get the chance for a few minutes between fights you can take a short rest to recover and all the damage suffered under Strain is fully healed. Injury on the other hand comes from criticals, missed saves and any damage that brings you below 0hp and therefore threatens to kill you. This damage does not go away until you get some SERIOUS use of the Heal skill used on you to treat Lethal wounds or Long Term Care or you get some magical healing.

Also I've used a houseruled "short rest" mechanic kind of like 4e. You get a number of rests and recover 1/4 of all powers, spells and abilities. You get 1 smite in a day? You get 1 back. You have 5 1st level spells? you get 2 back. You can do this a number of times equal to 3 plus your Con bonus.


Morphelis wrote:

Okay cool, he actually opted not to apply the acid to the darts and just throw the vial at a group of goblins. So the questions that have arisen from today's session.

1) The rogue took as a rogue talent rapid shot and was wondering if during his full round attack, he can target more than 1 creature? Or if both arrows must be aimed at the same creature?

2) Also (this might better be directed to a RotR thread, but whatever) in the adventure path, under Tsuto's gear it listed a composite shortbow (+1 strength), does this +1 strength imply that the wielder gets a +1 bonus to his/her strength score?

3) One last question, I only have access to the Core Rulebook (I am working on getting some money together for the APG and GM Guide)

4) I do not know the rules for tumbling. Today the rogue was tripped by a goblin and then surrounded by 3 of the little buggers and wanted to roll out of the situation without provoking AoO's. Can you shed light onto the general rules for tumbling and how to apply roll/tumble to this situation?

Again thank you all!!

Added numbers to your post to make it easier to answer:

1) This confused me for a second, as I needed to check it was the same as the feat. :) They took the Rogue Talent: Combat trick and picked the feat: Rapid Shot.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#_rapid-shot

They can shoot 2 target if they want.

2) Not surprised you didn't find this its kinda hidden. If you go to the equipment section and read the Composite Longbow section:

Longbow, Composite: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow.

For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.

Basically as long as you have at least a +1 strength modifier you get +1 damage.

3) If you don't have the money you can get all the rules (for free, on this website) here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/. To be honest though while you are all learning I would stick to the Core Rule Book only.

You may find the Bestiary 1, 2 & 3 helpful.

It also has the Game Masters Guide! :)

I would only buy the CRB - to look up stuff in the game but to be honest go with what you think makes sense if the game is getting slowed down too much. Just say that you are making ruling to keep the game moving but 'next time' it will be according to the rules which you can all check between games.

4) The rules for tumbling are under the skill description for Acrobatics (Tumble used to be a skill in D&D but not in Pathfinder): http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/acrobatics.html#_acrobatics


Morphelis wrote:

1) One more thing, as far as resting in a dungeon goes. If the PC's run out of spells or want to heal up, can they just set up camp in a room of the dungeon they have cleared and rest for the evening?

2) I imagine if they try this I can do some sort of random encounter that might or might not happen.

3) If they get interrupted, would they lose the benefits of an 8-hour rest?

3) I ran a group in 4th edition DnD last year where the party rested after every fight (although in 4th you were pretty much back to full strength after a nights rest).

4) Some of my players are from that group and I am worried that they might take an extended rest (multiple 8 hour spans) to heal up fully before pressing on, which kind of defeats the purpose of a dungeon crawl. Advice?

1) Yes. The players can always do what they want. What happens after they do it is where you come in. :D

2) Could do, up to you really. But if you broke into a bank, knocked out the guards then camped before opening the safe what do you think would happen? :D

If they did it really stealthily and quietly maybe they could get away with it. But someone's going to wonder why the guards didn't come to get their dinner.

3) I agree I love the strain injury rules and would always play with them:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jcp6udyHU-cURn5u7MzunsOfrCruk0ywDkvmdVk 0fGQ/edit?pli=1

4) Firstly if they, and you are having fun that it the 'purpose'. But yes, if they rest before each fight they are playing 'easy mode'. You need to stop them doing this really.

Its is called the '15 minute adventuring day' and is a common 'problem'. Do a search as this has been discussed a lot before. :)

This is a good start:

paizo.com/forums/dmtz63ka?Overcoming-the-15-Minute-Adventuring-Day.


Alright, So i have a question that I think I found the answer to earlier, but cannot find it again. Is the limit to how many ranks a PC can have in a class skill equal to his HD?


Correct.
But it is the limit for all skills not just class skills.
The only difference between the two is that a class skill has a bonus of +3 if the character has at least 1 rank in the skill.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

so they can train class skills also?

Silver Crusade

If by "train" you mean "put skill points into", then yes.
Let's say I'm a Fighter 1, Rogue 1 with no Intelligence Bonus.

I get to spend 10 Skill points (2 from my level in Fighter, 8 from my level in Rogue). I can put them into any skill I like, als long as I do not put more than 2 into the same skill (I've only got 2 Hit Dice, after all).
If I put at least 1 point into a class skill (and it's not important wheter it's a class skill of the Rogue, the Fighter, or both) I get a +3 bonus whenever I roll on the skill.
So if I put a point into Climb (class skill for Rogue and Fighter) I get to roll D20 + 1 (skill point) + 3 (class skill) + strength bonus.

Also:

This is the correct link, Lightbulb copied it wrong somehow ;)

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