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The best witch build I've never seen?


Advice


I like witches. True, I'm new to PF and haven't played one yet, but I like them.

I've been looking through the threads and the great class guides but I didn't see discussion of this idea: Dual-cursed oracle 1/witch X

I wonder if the dual-cursed oracle is worth it for the following reason:

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.

From my understanding there is no save, so there is no concern of DC because of that. And this power could then be used as the basis of the misfortune hex/cackle etc. The character would be built exactly as a witch (as far as attributes, race considerations, etc) but with the level dip at 1st level.

Is this worth it (for someone who wants to play a very hex-based witch)?


Why do the dip at first level?

If the character is built like a witch, presumably you want to play it like a witch, will take most of it's class lvls as witch... why not start as a witch?

Take the dip at 2nd level so you can use the tactic to make you that much more witchie.

I guess the real question is would you trade that one ability for a level of spell casting and class ability progression? If yes, then it's on like Donkey Kong.

Sean


Well, it has the problem with any multi classed full caster build. You give up progression for versatility.

Witches get a combination of divine and arcane spells. A oracle dip better have something good in it.

You give the oracle curse misfortune as that something. A neat trick for sure, mostly because of the speed. Is it worth taking 2 curses that will have only 1 progress (slowly at that, due to multiclassing)?

I'm just not seeing anything that makes this "viable" where viable is being better than just straight class.

Perhaps if you had a mapped out build that one could compare with the normal baseline would help.

Alternatively does mystic thurge work with this combo? Thurge is not a good PrCl, but they can at least be "interesting" to play.


It seems like a pretty good deal. Although, that's just about it for the dip.

first hit dice 1d8
+2 to will saves
can use some divine magic wands or some other thing...

On the other hand, here's something to think about:

  • A level behind for spell progression.
  • Two curses. Only one is going to progress pretty slowly.
  • BAB may be slowed (depends on home rules)
  • If you are focusing on hexes, odds are you are going to need/want a starting intelligence of 20 (22 if you have the Advance Race Guide). Although not really an issue, I'd like to at least use those spells from the Oracle, which would require a 11 Cha.

    Depending on your stats, curses, and possibly home rules, doesn't sound like a bad idea.


  • notabot wrote:
    Alternatively does mystic thurge work with this combo? Thurge is not a good PrCl, but they can at least be "interesting" to play.

    I don't think it would be. It would require 3 more levels in oracle for 2nd level spells, and you'd need a good charisma for those extra spells you get from mystic theurge. Also, unless homeruled, the hex DCs don't scale with other class levels.

    Although I always thought of a Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge combo. Doesn't have to rely on two different stats, but you'd only be able to start on it at level 9.


    It's not a bad choice. Misfortune is a really powerful ability when you use it to force a second save against a save of suck/die, like slumber.


    I am playing a witch with the dimensional occultist archetype. She is planning on a level or two of diabloist because it goes with her concept, if it did not then I do not recommend dipping since most everything witchie will be impacted.


    Marthian wrote:

    It seems like a pretty good deal. Although, that's just about it for the dip.

    first hit dice 1d8
    +2 to will saves
    can use some divine magic wands or some other thing...

    On the other hand, here's something to think about:

  • A level behind for spell progression.
  • Two curses. Only one is going to progress pretty slowly.
  • BAB may be slowed (depends on home rules)
  • If you are focusing on hexes, odds are you are going to need/want a starting intelligence of 20 (22 if you have the Advance Race Guide). Although not really an issue, I'd like to at least use those spells from the Oracle, which would require a 11 Cha.

    Depending on your stats, curses, and possibly home rules, doesn't sound like a bad idea.

  • How are you getting +4 int out of he ARG. The bt I've seen so far I ratkin with the alternative favored class bonus to ger +5 feet/ level on cackle.


    The best witch build I've never seen?

    If it isn't a Beast Bound Witch... then no. It is not the best witch build I have seen.


    Beast bonded is only good after level 10, which is pretty late for most games. Pfs for exmple.


    TheRedMage wrote:

    I like witches. True, I'm new to PF and haven't played one yet, but I like them.

    I've been looking through the threads and the great class guides but I didn't see discussion of this idea: Dual-cursed oracle 1/witch X

    I wonder if the dual-cursed oracle is worth it for the following reason:

    Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.

    From my understanding there is no save, so there is no concern of DC because of that. And this power could then be used as the basis of the misfortune hex/cackle etc. The character would be built exactly as a witch (as far as attributes, race considerations, etc) but with the level dip at 1st level.

    Is this worth it (for someone who wants to play a very hex-based witch)?

    Yes if Guild Eclectic option is available in your campaign.


    There's also the Wizard archetype to get the arcane gun and gain up to a +5 bonus on the save DCs of some area spells (Dazing Spell feat says "Hi!"), which only requires a 1 level dip.

    Mind, this is STILL inferior to not losing a CL and hex progression at all, no matter how much you cheese it out, but it's certainly not nearly as bad as pretty much any other dip a witch could do.

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