Hi, I need help from those in the know...
In a recent game my wizard cast a quickened Finger of Death Spell using a 'normal' rod of quickened spell. Finger of death is 7th, you can only use a rod of quickened spell 'normal' to cast up to 6th level spells.
So, I made a mistake attempting this action, I accept that. The DM missed the error too and we played out the encounter... It was the last combat of the night and I took out the boss using this technique.
Upon reflection I realized my error and told the DM, we will go back to the start of the encounter and try again. Although he has ruled that I loose my surprise round that I acted in. I have no prob with that either.
So, my question is; If i have attempted to cast a quickened spell with a rod, and the spell level is too high for the attempt to work do I:
a) lose the spell and or;
b) lose a charge on my rod of quickened spell
or is it just a failed attempt at something I should have known better about and I still have that juicy spell and that neat quickened charge to use later?
All advice appreciated.
Vapormane
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Your head explodes, no save. *SCNR*
Rules-wise, you're solidly in 'does not compute' territory, as the rules assume that a spellcaster is aware of the capabilities of his stuff.
My take on the situation would be, you try and employ the rod. Which fails to modify your spell, so you can decide whether you want to sacrifice the usual standard action on top of the already spent swift action to fire the spell normally, or to drop that spell (losing it, but still have your standard action).
As for the rod... ask your GM. I can see the rod not even starting up (Error: incompatible spell), I can see the rod burning a charge; hell, I can even see the rod overloading and possibly getting the 'broken' condition... this is massively depending upon what take on magic gadgets your GM has.
Midnight_Angel, thanks for the quick reply mate. You pose some interesting ideas.
To clarify, in my turn I used Dimensional Step to get into the area of the boss (standard action) so I only had a very limited time to act up my sleeve. I made the call with the rod and a spell that just does not work and that is where I am left.
Thanks for the thoughts, they pose more issues than I even imagined would be involved.
My GM is forgiving but not in critical moments, which I really enjoy. A win is not a win unless you achieve it within the rules... That is how we play.
Of course I want to retain my spell and rod charge but I am not interested in operating outside the rules. Not that you suggest that by the way.
The overload / broken condition is definitely sub optimal but hey, I never thought of that, and my GM would probably love it, and so goes the learning curve...
Thanks again,
vapormane
I would just say the rod fails to activate if you try to use it in an incorrect manner.
wraithstrike,
thanks mate, that suits me better, but what about the spell? Do i loose it? Do i also loose a charge off the Rod of Quickened Spell?
Honestly I as the GM would just tell you that it does not work, and not make you lose anything since I would expect your character to know that, but if for some reason your character did not know then the spell might be cast without the rod's help, but I think that is houserule territory.
Since it was a mutual mistake, and you're basically doing a do-over, I do not see why you would lose either a charge or the spell.
The GM should probably try to mix up the encounter a little, since you had a practice run. You know, since you kind of know what the big bad already has in his bag of tricks.
Actually... in the order that you put it, I sincerely think that you cannot do anything else after the Dimension Door you casted to enter the zone, since the spell clearly says that "After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn."... This means that you cannot even take swift actions....
Actually... in the order that you put it, I sincerely think that you cannot do anything else after the Dimension Door you casted to enter the zone, since the spell clearly says that "After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn."... This means that you cannot even take swift actions....
That's ok, because nowhere was Dimension Door mentioned. He used Dimensional Step, a conjuration wizard school power.
If you are looking for a strict interpretation of the rules, no where does it say you lose a spell or a charge or even your action if you try to cast an incompatible spell with a metamagic rod. The rules just say you can't do it. Making you lose anything is firmly in house rule territory. Nothing wrong with that at all, it depends on how your group wants to play.
Personally I would just have you lose the swift action. But that would be a house rule.
I would have said "Okay, you have your rod in hand, it doesn't seem to work like you intended, what would you like to do instead?".
Thanks all for your comments. Really appreciate the quick responses. It is looking like it will be a house rule issue. So I am at the mercy of the GM.
I got some very constructive insights on how others play. Really appreciate it.
Vapormane.
As a GM, I'd probably retroactively say that channelling a 7th level spell through a medium-strength rod works, but burns out the rod. So you're left with a very expensive piece of junk, but we wouldn't have to retcon anything (unless you used the rod later that fight as well).
Actually... in the order that you put it, I sincerely think that you cannot do anything else after the Dimension Door you casted to enter the zone, since the spell clearly says that "After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn."... This means that you cannot even take swift actions....That's ok, because nowhere was Dimension Door mentioned. He used Dimensional Step, a conjuration wizard school power.
Doesn't that say that it works like Dimension Door?
Umbranus,
I just re-read the conjuration school ability for Dimensional Steps in the core rules, I am not sure if there is errata on this topic so I am going with the core rules. It does not say anywhere that Dimensional Steps acts the same as Dimension Door. The chapter does say it is a type of teleport, but it does not refer to the teleport spell or any of its requirements or special conditions. So, the way I read it, Dimensional Steps is a standard action and you can act after the dimensional step takes place if you have time. It is a type of teleport but it is not subject to the constraints of either Dimension Door or Teleport. It is its own thing.
If I am missing something please, point me in the right direction. If I can't act after Dimensionaly Stepping into a combat, in this case, it changes everything...!
And as Midnight_Angel said, my head might just explode!
-Vapormane
The 5th printing of Dimensional Steps do not mention D-Door and there is no FAQ/errata on it. Dimensional Steps has no restriction upon actions after usage.
Dimensional Steps (Sp): At 8th level, you can use this ability to teleport up to 30 feet per wizard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you.
- Gauss
Edit: As a sidenote, the APG Teleportation School power 'Shift' does reference Dimension Door and thus has that restriction. Even with that, I love Shift. Great way to get a wizard out of danger in a hurry (even when grappled).
Looking at the power on D20pfsrd.
"At 8th level, you can use this ability to teleport up to 30 feet per wizard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you."
It doesnt say anything about dimension door. So i think you are good on that.
Gauss, Mojorat,
thanks guys. What I thought. Gonna look up 'shift' now, love a good get out of jail free option. ;)
Shift (supernatural): Replaces the conjuration acid dart power. As a swift action you dimension door (line of sight only) 5feet per 2 levels (minimum 5feet). Can be used 3+int mod times per day.
Great power. By level 6 it is 15feet, by level 10 it is 25feet. A wizard can cast a touch spell (Standard action), walk forward (move action), touch the enemy (free action) and use a swift action to D-Door back out of the way.
- Gauss
Gauss,
Yep, that passes the requirements to deliver manna on time and safely with a quick get away... Thanks. Nice tip.
NP Vapormane. Shift is one of the few teleport style methods that is NOT either a spell or a spell-like ability and as a result it is a guaranteed 'get out of grapple' card. Only ways it will not work is if you are swallowed (prevent's line of sight), blind (same), or in an antimagic field (which just screws you anyhow).
- Gauss
Vapormane, have you discovered the joy that is the spell Create Pit (and all of its subsidiaries)? :D
- Gauss
Gauss,
Nope, the encounter I am in, with this character is 14th level. So, I wish i posted questions to this board a long time ago, the advice has been top notch. But I expect that this campaign will run its course in the next 3-4 sessions so, I have limited time to enjoy flicking manna around. But if you have ideas i'd love to hear them. Perhaps start a new thread so i can keep this one on topic for a while. Send me the link and I'd be grateful to get ideas from another player on wizard tips. Really appreciate your help. Thanks mate.
-vapormane
Vapormane, Im sending you a PM (look at the email icon at the top of the screen).
- Gauss
Will do dude, if I don't get back straight away I will soon. Cheers,
-Vapormane