Spell and Item Cards?

[Valanda]

I recently purchased the beginner box after my family was unhappy with the red box set we had purchased. Our local gaming store convinced us to try Pathfinder -- said it was likely a better fit for us and what we wanted out of our game experience.

While I find most things wonderful, I liked the item and spell cards in the red box set. Is there anything similar to that for Pathfinders beginners set? My kids found it easier to keep track of spells and items when they had cards.

I'm trying to do this right, but I have no experience in this at all. My husband and sons decided that I have to be the GM -- cause nobody argues with Mama! They all figured (and they are likely right) that if one of them was GM, the whole thing would deteriorate into a rules argument.

I still can't believe that they have convinced me to do this...

[Caedwyr]

I believe that Paizo sells nice item cards. A number of 3rd party publishers also sell spell cards (maybe just the pdf), and you can also download some nice looking and/or functional spell cards

D20pfsrd.com Downloads Page (Scroll down to the spellcard folder)

Spell Card Generators These let you make your own spell cards that you can print out.

[DM Jeff]

Hi Valanda, and welcome to the game!

Caedwyr is correct with that spell link, it's a good, free resource.

The Pathfinder Game Mastery Item Cards can be found HERE.

They have pictures of nearly all the weapons and armor plus things like potions, scrolls, wands, staves and more. I found they're really reuseable and customizable. With a pad or two of the little Post-It note pads you can put whatever notes or stats you need on the back.

Hope that helps!

[Sean K Reynolds]

There are many, many sets of GameMasterycards from Paizo. They don't have game stats for items, but the back side has a large blank area so you can write clues and game info on them.

We frequently talk about doing spell cards, but there are so many spells just in the Core Rulebook that it's hard to create a product that is (1) useful, and (2) won't kill the sale of any followup spell card products. We're also limited by the number of cards in a double deck, so we can't just make a deck of all the spells... we'd have to have it spread over multiple decks... which then becomes an issue of "we have to have fireball, magic missile, and lightning bolt in the first set, otherwise it's not useful," which then becomes, "if we put all the high-demand spells in the first set, then the second set is mostly spells that you almost never use, and nobody would want to buy that."

So... we're still working on how to make this work. :)

[Justin Franklin]

Sean: by spell level?

[Koren n'Rhys]

Nice link Caedwyr - I had no idea that resource site was out there!

A couple comments though - first, they look great but wow, tiny print...
EDIT TO ADD: The generators are nice too, but really you are just picking which spells to print, rather than actually making your own.

Second, for Valanda: Be sure you realize those cards are based on the full spell versions for PF Core, NOT Beginners Box. If you have the time and computer skills, you'll most likely be better off if you use the templates to make your own cards based on the info in the box. It'll be less confusing for your young players.

BTW, awfully nice of your loving hubby to put the burden of GMing on your plate. Be sure to make him pay for that... :)

Enjoy the game with your family. Seeing kids grow to love it is a HUGE part of the fun!

[Caedwyr]

@Koren: I took about a year of on-again, off-again work to make the spellcards for the Core Rulebook. I was originally planning on producing index-card sized versions, but I didn't get much of a response to them (positive or negative), so I decided to shift my creative time to adding 3rd party content to d20pfsrd.com. If it turns out that there is a significant audience for them, I may be convinced to go back and make the index card versions.

[Sean K Reynolds]

Doing it by spell level means you'll hit a point where it's just high-level spells, and the number of people buying Spell Cards Set: 7th, 8th, 9th is MUCH smaller than the number buying Spell Cards Set: 1st and 2nd... which runs into problem #2 (killing the sales of followup products).

[Caedwyr]

The way most spell cards sets have been done, is by class. This of course runs into the problem of some sets being much larger than others, and making it harder to produce standard sets.

Another method, could be to assign rarities to different spells, and release a set of common spells, uncommon, rare, and uniques.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

By school?

[Caedwyr]

Transmutation and Conjuration are huge schools, while schools like Universal and Divination are small. The biggest problem is just the shear number of spells present. You need to find a way to break the number of cards per set up in a manageable number.

[Adamantine Dragon]

Sean, Paizo is frequently cited as a company that listens to what its customers want and that understands what it is like to be a gamer.

So here is your chance to prove it. Publish the following:

Set 1: The most commonly used spells of level 1 - 3.

Set 2: The most commonly used spells of level 4 - 6.

Set 3: Most of the rest of the 1 - 3 spells.

Set 4: All of the spells of level 7 - 9.

Set 5: Most (or all) of the spells of level 4 - 6

Separately, as a free service, allow people to download .pdf files of cards for the spells you aren't providing in a set.

I'd buy all of those.

[Sean K Reynolds]

Adamantine Dragon, like I said, some of those sets are going to be really poor sellers, and that's something we try to avoid deliberately creating (a series of products where one will be a real stinker compared to the others). There is no simple solution to this problem.

[Lucio]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Adamantine Dragon, like I said, some of those sets are going to be really poor sellers, and that's something we try to avoid deliberately creating (a series of products where one will be a real stinker compared to the others). There is no simple solution to this problem.

And thus we fall to the EVIL GAMING CORPORATION Marketing Ploy Number 1 - If you can't ensure things will sell well for all versions, make it random collectables!! :)

OTOH, A set of glossy cards with either dry erase text, or an associated PDF file letting you pick and chose which cards you produce would be awesome.

Alternatively a *huge* 300 card set with key stats, a page reference and artwork would be fun

Anyhow, in reference to the opening post, I found getting some card stock cut to size, and then using trading card protectors let me produce a load of useful card-like accessories. Printed up a basic layout and filled in the blanks with pencil, and the card protectors let me shuffle them.

[JohnF]

Adrezi wrote:

A set of glossy cards with either dry erase text, or an associated PDF file letting you pick and chose which cards you produce would be awesome.

+3 or so to this (about the number of sets I'd buy to start with).

I'd love to be able to get a deck of standard size (3.5 x 2.5) blank cards with nice Paizo art on the back (for extra appeal, offer different backs, with perhaps three or four to a deck - that would make me buy even more!).

You can find printable 3.375 x 2.3125 labels in a variety of finishes, so those of us with computers and printers would all be able to make our own printed spell cards (and I'm sure third-party or community suppliers would offer template designs).

[Valanda]

Caedwyr wrote:

The way most spell cards sets have been done, is by class. This of course runs into the problem of some sets being much larger than others, and making it harder to produce standard sets.

Another method, could be to assign rarities to different spells, and release a set of common spells, uncommon, rare, and uniques.

Wow! Thanks for all of the intelligent and helpful replies.

I used Perram's Spellbook to print out cards for the spells they are using now. We have many card sleeves, so that was not much of a problem. Although, I have noticed that some of the spells do not really lend themselves to being printed out in card-like form. The spell Detect Magic being an example - this spell stretches over 4 cards if you include the 2 tables.

My kids enjoyed selecting pics of their PC's to use as backs for the cards.

As far as the difficulty in putting cards in the beginner box set: I think it is important to do this if at all possible (keeping up with the competition). If the spells in the beginner box are a toned down version of the full spells, why does the need for selling any spells cards after level five even matter?

The beginner box already has pawns that are not ready for release for the full game version - it seems that specialized spell cards for the beginner box could also be released like this.

I really think that the cards are also important because the target audience for the beginner box (the type of kids who are likely to play anyway) are already used to having spell cards for other games: these are the kids who have grown up with Pokemon and Magic the Gathering. These same kids are also already used to buying randomized "booster packs" - so, at least for this target audience, marketing future spell cards should be simple.

Alternately, spell cards could be packaged in a different sort of set: If you packaged spell levels 0 & 1 with level 9 ... people would not only see what spells they actually can use, but would have a sneak-peek at the awesome powerful spells they will get if they stick with it.

As for "making my husband pay"... he is and he will! I already made him buy me the Core Rulebook, the Game Mastery Guide, the Bestiary, the Adventurer's Armory, and Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition -pawns for Runelords to be ordered soon. I'm working on convincing him that now we need a new fancy table to play on (been showing him The Sultan from Geek Chic)...

[Koren n'Rhys]

Valanda wrote:

As for "making my husband pay"... he is and he will! I already made him buy me the Core Rulebook, the Game Mastery Guide, the Bestiary, the Adventurer's Armory, and Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition -pawns for Runelords to be ordered soon. I'm working on convincing him that now we need a new fancy table to play on (been showing him The Sultan from Geek Chic)...

Ouch! Now that's a woman who plays hardball! That Sultan would be amazing to have sitting in the gameroom...

[Valanda]

It's simply "the art of marital manipulation". If I insist I want the Sultan, he'll counter with the cheapest version, and we'll settle on something in the middle ;P

Either way, he pays - and I get a new table!

[Vic Wertz]

Another thing that makes spell cards difficult is that some spells (in the full RPG at least) have *way* higher word counts than others, so that makes them hard to fit on cards.

Adrezi wrote:

And thus we fall to the EVIL GAMING CORPORATION Marketing Ploy Number 1 - If you can't ensure things will sell well for all versions, make it random collectables!! :)

You just reminded me of a product that came out right around the same time as our own Item Cards... Tokkens, from Fantasy Mint. These were item cards printed on metal. (Why metal? No idea.) They dealt with the issue by making 5-card packs of random items where the rarity was determined by how frequently items would be generated using random treasure tables in the SRD. And they dealt with the text length issue by just truncating the text when they ran out of space, telling you to look at their website to read the rest. Good times...

[JohnF]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Another thing that makes spell cards difficult is that some spells (in the full RPG at least) have *way* higher word counts than others, so that makes them hard to fit on cards.

That's why I suggest just selling blank card decks, and letting folks create their own reminders that handle 90% of the conditions they care about (with a page number reference if there's more stuff to know). I don't need the full description, but I probably want the spell level, casting time, duration, saving throw (or attack type), damage, etc., and a sentence or two to remind me of anything else.

I'd probably make up something similar for selected feats, too. Maybe even the odd item (although the AP-specific Item Cards cover a lot of that ground).

[Caedwyr]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Another thing that makes spell cards difficult is that some spells (in the full RPG at least) have *way* higher word counts than others, so that makes them hard to fit on cards.

When I was working on the art-heavy spell cards for the core rulebook spells, I figured out that for the mass market, you'd need to have a set of cards that were index card sized, with some cards at double index card sized. This is assuming that you didn't have one card reference another card and that you include all the text of the spell on a single card. For the summon monster/summon nature's ally cards you needed to have a second card listing the summon tables.

[glio]

How about teaming up with one of the hundreds of 'print to order' companies online. Give people an order form where they pick their spells, have the company print and ship, done!

[drkfathr1]

Or, if you're really on a budget...buy a pack of notecards and make your own! Though they're too big to fit in card sleeves they still work fine!

[Liz Courts]

I find Perram's Spellbook very handy for printing out spell cards.

[the Haunted Jester]

I understand that there is no simple solution to this issue. One way to possibly tie the spell cards to Golarion itself (yes I understand that you would really want to keep the product world neutral under normal circumstances) is to divide them into two separate themes for the two most mysterious, and powerful arcane regions in Golarion; The Spells of Nex and the spells of Geb.

The spells themes could be from powerful followers of either side and even the Masters of the Arcane themselves. It could be an interesting tie into that region.

Also, is it possible to print them on the same card stock as the Pathfinder pawns and simply place them in a larger space such as a 3x5 area. I imagine that this would be a more expensive route to "solving" the matter but there would be a longevity to the product.

this is merely my 2cp....

[TerrorTigr]

There is the option of making blank cards that people fill out themselves. Give them a nice back, some important/useful fields (spell level, range, duration, casting time, etc.) that you'll use for most, and a big blank area to describe the effects or write down which book/page it's in. Of course that'll only be one pack, then (unless you make them with different backs for different classes or something), but it's the only feasible thing I can think of.

The 4th ed. class cards I only bought to have the nice backsides. Put them in a card sleeve, along with a printed card where I could write the actual numbers on, and stuff.

[Kata. the .....]

Liz Courts wrote:

I find Perram's Spellbook very handy for printing out spell cards.

Liz had me at free. :)