I know there are gish builds out there that deal uber-damage and can cast five spells in a standard action.
That's not what I'm needing help with.
The gish I have in mind is a bit more specific than a Spellcaster/Melee build. and the help I need has more to do with feats, level progression, and planning in general. I've never tried to plan a character's progression before; it's always been more organic with multi-classing being more for role-playing reasons, or because the class was too good of a fit for a character for me not to do it.
I've probably bored you beyond tears by this point so I'll get to the nitty-gritty. The character I have in mind uses the Words of Power system. The spell casting class is Sorcerer with the melee being either a fighter or a barbarian. I'm not sure which would be better, and I'm open to alternatives.
The build I have right now, 20 pt buy:
Human Sorcerer X/Fighter X
STR: 14 (5)
DEX: 16 (10)
CON: 12 (2)
INT: 08 (-2)
WIS: 10 (0)
CHA: 16 (5) +2 racial
Traits:
Heirloom Weapon (Proficiency: Bastard Sword)
[Something else, not sure what]
Not much of a build, but i hope that will change.
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You'd likely be better with Str 16 and Dex 14.
Also, progression-wise, I reccomend the following:
Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Sorcerer 3
Eldritch Knight is eminently worth it for all multiclassing Gish characters, and actually quite good.
Trait-wise, I'd grab either Focused Mind or Reactionary. Or, I suppose, a skill-Trait if you have any skills you'd like as Class.
Hmm, I never thought to look at that. I'll take a look and see what it's got.
Seconding the EK. It's a very solid PrC for the multiclass gish.
I'd skip Heirloom unless it's background specific. The errata on it made the trait quite terrible. You're a sunder away from having dead weight. Magical Knack is amazing if you're not playing PFS (this will negate the CL loss from Fighter and EK1).
An alternative, if you're not as weapon-inclined (or even if you are) is to run Barbarian 4 / Sorc 1 / Dragon Disciple X / Barbarian Y. I like the full 10 DD, but others will take a small hit on DD levels for more Barbarian. It's all a matter of preference. This is definitely the caster-lite gish, but you rock the house on melee and gain permanent flight at higher levels. You'll also have more skills than a Fighter-based build.
personally, I would go wizard.
1.) it shores up one weakness of fighter/spellcasters: low skill points.
2.) it provides more flexibility in spell choice: A sorcerer knows X amount of spells, but a wizard can have all of them in his spellbook.
3.) Wizard provides a faster spell progression than Sorcerer; you can get into EK one level earlier.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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personally, I would go wizard.
1.) it shores up one weakness of fighter/spellcasters: low skill points.
2.) it provides more flexibility in spell choice: A sorcerer knows X amount of spells, but a wizard can have all of them in his spellbook.
3.) Wizard provides a faster spell progression than Sorcerer; you can get into EK one level earlier.
While I agree with you partially about the flexibility of spells, I think that a Sorcerer with the Sage bloodline is possibly the best spellcaster in the game. I much prefer to have more spells per day, and I've always preferred spontaneous casting.
TL;DR: GO WITH SAGE BLOODLINE!! :-D
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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If you want skill points and spont casting, then go sage bloodline (uses int to cast)
Also I recommend the Lore Warden archtype for the fighter levels. You're only in light armor, but get two more int based skill ponts. Those two would give you spellcraft and knowlege (arcana) at 1st level.
Also if you want high dex, drop the bastard sword for wakazashi or elven curved blade. Both are finessable.
so as a first level fighter...
S 14
D 16
C 12
I 15 (13 +2 racial)
W 10
CH 10
EWP either wakazashi or curved blade, Weapon finesse, dodge maybe? or the arcane armor feat.
traits, reactionary or deft dodger, magical knack (assuming non pfs.)
Then go sageblooded sorcerer. Skill points will be retroactive when you get the int boost from level 4, and you can take one hand off the blade to cast as a free action, so the curved blade is an option.
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I'd say don't do it. Gish Fighters rely on transmution and buffing spells to help make up for the inefficenceis of the spellcasting classes melee capabilities. The words of power system sucks at the this. It is phenominal on damage output, and you can be an awesome blaster, but it sucks on buffing spells just about altogether. The one unique word that they have that you can't find as an equivalent spell is Accelerate, which actually gives you a move action. Other than that, its just not a system that works for Gish fighters.
sage sorcerer is good, and would be the archetype i would go with if I were set for sorcerer. HOWEVER.
wizard still has greater spell flexibility, and is still a level ahead in spell progression. i.e. still ahead for 2/3 considerations.
Food for thought.
If you wanna use an exotic weapon, go with falcata instead. Its heads above any other weapon for output. Class wise fighter 1/wizard 5/ek x works well, as does paladin 2/sorc 6/ek x or dd x..
A gish is almost universally focused on buffing, with other spells being secondary and situational.
That means you tend to use a limited selection of spells repeatedly, rather then tailoring spells to what the enemies are, i.e. buffing you, not debuffing the foe. Too, you have multi stats and aren't focused on upping your primary caster stat as much, so saves aren't key.
Sorc is usually better for gishes. Now, if you're building a wizard who can fight, instead of a fighter who can cast spells, that might be different.
==Aelryinth
A gish is almost universally focused on buffing, with other spells being secondary and situational.
That means you tend to use a limited selection of spells repeatedly, rather then tailoring spells to what the enemies are, i.e. buffing you, not debuffing the foe. Too, you have multi stats and aren't focused on upping your primary caster stat as much, so saves aren't key.
Sorc is usually better for gishes. Now, if you're building a wizard who can fight, instead of a fighter who can cast spells, that might be different.
==Aelryinth
Really? I thought a Gish was a mage that could fight as well, and it didn't matter if you focused on buff, debuff, or blasting spells.
I guess I should have explained myself better. I tend to pick things based on their flavor rather than there mechanics, even if the flavor is only, "Petite fighter... with a greatsword... GENIUS!" The concept behind this character was inspired by the fluff behind the words of power (ancient system of magic with lots of raw power, not a lot of refinement), Parts of Skyrim (mainly my play style, hack'n'slash with shouts sprinkled in to help in sticky situations), and the archetypical shaman/witch (powerful, primal spell caster with some fighting abilities). Hopefully this explains some of my choices. I picked sorcerer for the spell casting class because of the mechanics used by the words of power for the class. I like the idea of a character having some spells they always falls back on, but then comes along something that their normal methods won't work on, so they have to experiment and mix things up, like having a a water elemental bloodline sorcerer having to use fire damage instead of cold damage in an elemental spell.
As for the bastard sword, well, I've always wanted to have a character use one, but never really tried to see if I could make a character work with it. I thought this concept would be the perfect opportunity, Have a character use a bastard sword, deal out two-handed damage, then switch to one-hand when they needed to cast a spell in someone's face.
That said, I'm still glad I asked for help. I never would have thought to look into the eldrict knight PrC before, and there are still some pretty cool ideas being flung around, but not exactly what I wanted for this character. Thank you, though, for putting your thoughts and ideas here. I appreciate the time you guys have taken to help me out with this.
TL;DR: Thank you for posting, I'm getting some really cool ideas, but I kinda had something in mind and that dictated the choices in the opening post.
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I love words of power. They are a great idea. I have thought about this idea for one of my characters before. If you are going for the primal feel I recommend the barbarian. You can't cast while raging but the feel of going from slinging destruction at your enemies to bashing them with built up rage when they get to close seems like a lot of fun. The Protean, Draconian (or Linnorm), Fey and Elemental(primal) bloodlines always gave me the feeling of connections to old magic.
If you do go with Draconian or Linnorm the Dragon Disciple is great along the same lines.
For the flavor I would recommend against the Eldritch Knight. He is great but really more of a magus feel IMHO. Go for a straight multiclass to build him how you want.
As far as feats go, arcane armor training and spell focus will help you a lot if you go blast with the magic. Power attack will be helpful a little later for your fighting.
For Traits I recommend Magical Knack is perfect for you and I like the heirloom weapon idea. ads a nice flavor and a good weapon for low levels. Don't be afraid to leave it behind when you find something better though (unless there is a druid in your party that can turn it into a masterwork weapon).
Good luck with the build.