Ice Spears: Space occupied?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ice Spears spell, for reference.

Each spear of ice "affects" a single 5ft square. Each on also remains sticking out of the ground, potentially providing cover. But it also seems to say that creatures can continue to share a space with it after being hit.

Questions:
1) If a creature occupies the same space as an ice spear, does the creature get cover (as opposed to only getting cover if the spear is in a space between the creature and an enemy)? If yes, do they get cover in all directions? Can they change the direction of cover?

2) If a creature wants to move through a space with a spear, can they? Would it be difficult terrain, or would they have to go around it?


picturing the spell in my head I would say

1)Yes they would get cover unless they are taller than 10 ft. which is the spells maximum height, otherwise you would still be able to attack them with relative ease. However it would not be from all sides since they have to effectively be behind one side of the spear, but could change it each round as they move within the square (possibly a move action if you rule it as difficult terrain or free if it's a simple shift a few inches around also size dependent.)

2)Since it seems to imply that you do share space with it, and you can be tripped(without being moved into a different square) by it I'd then say it'd be possible to move through the square, but definitely it would be difficult terrain.

Of course that's just my opinion from picturing how the spell would work "realistically"


Well, the closest thing to consider regarding sharing space with cover-providing objects that I found with a quick search is this part about trees from the terrain rules:

Quote:
Trees The most important terrain element in a forest is the trees, obviously. A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains partial cover, which grants a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. The presence of a tree doesn't otherwise affect a creature's fighting space, because it's assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can. The trunk of a typical tree has AC 4, hardness 5, and 150 hp. A DC 15 Climb check is sufficient to climb a tree. Medium and dense forests have massive trees as well. These trees take up an entire square and provide cover to anyone behind them. They have AC 3, hardness 5, and 600 hp. Like their smaller counterparts, it takes a DC 15 Climb check to climb them.

So, let's try to apply logic to pathfinder rules (^^).

1. A tree that is small enough to allow you to move freely in the 5ft square it's in, provides partial cover.
2. A tree that takes up the entire square (like a wall, no one can move into that) provides cover.
3. Ice Spears should either give you partial cover and allow you to move freely, or give you cover and block the square.
4. Since the Ice Spears provide cover, we could assume that they also take up the whole space.

However, since Ice Spears knock a target prone in their square (instead of knocking the target prone in an adjacent square), they are seemingly large enough to affect the entire 5ft square, and large enough to provide cover but not large enough to take up the whole space. Somewhere in between.

So... I would houserule that the square counts as difficult terrain, because that seems to be the middle ground between "move freely" and "blocked square"
.
In analogy to the quoted part, the cover could apply to all directions "because it's assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can" - however, just as with trees, I would probably houserule that it provides cover against one direction per turn.
Say, if you're in the square with the ice spear, and get flanked, you can only apply cover against one opponent, because when they attack quasi-simultaneously, you can only be on one side of the ice spear at a time.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thanks for the tree rules! Unless someone else has something to add, I think I'm satisfied with treating the spears like an ordinary tree.


Thread Necro.

How are you allowed to target the extra spears? Anywhere within the caster's range? Can you target the same square multiple times?


Good followup question, hopefully someone can answer this one.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ataraxias wrote:

Thread Necro.

How are you allowed to target the extra spears? Anywhere within the caster's range? Can you target the same square multiple times?

Quote:
Each stalagmite-like icicle affects a 5-foot square and tapers to a height of 10 feet.

In Pathfinder the same effect don't stack with itself. So I would say that you can't stack more than 1 icicle per square.

Even if you were able to grow more than one icicle in the square it would still be a single attack.

Quote:
creatures that take up more than one square can be hit by multiple spears if the caster is high enough level.

There is a specific rule to make more than 1 attack with one casting, and it require the target to occupy more than 1 square.

Maybe with a successive casting of the spell you can have a new icicle sprout from the per-existing icicle to reach an higher point or to jut at a 90° angle and affect an adjacent square mid air, but that is different. At that point you are affecting existing terrain.

From what I read you can place them anywhere in range.


Thank you very much Diego!


Can Ice Spears be cast inside a creature? I have a character with a wand of Ice Spears who just got swallowed whole by a large creature while holding the wand.


"One or more giant spears of ice lance up out of THE GROUND..." - - doesn't look like it, no.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Ice Spears: Space occupied? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.