You are certainly free to disagree with me James.
My general rule on whether something is overpowered is if you explain it to someone and they go "Freaking AWESOME! I gotta do THAT!"
Which I believe we saw the OP do here.
No single feat should give that sort of orgasmic delight.
Not to mention every freaking druid or other AC build considers it to be essential to the concept.
It's exactly what the OP said. "Awesome."
Too awesome.
That's kind of silly way to determine if something is over powered. I judge on how it effects play. From my experience boon companion is often is a wasted feat. The effects are short live. What you get is big boost in the companion but as levels go by after that it get weaker and weaker.
The reason is clear why this happens. On druid they usually buff up their animal companions with magic items and spells. Ranger don't do this. They tend to be front line combatants and the animal companion gets little or no boost. Not saying it could be done but rangers just don't have the number or spells, level of spell or type of spells to pull it off successfully.
So really it's not worth it.
You are certainly free to disagree with me James.
My general rule on whether something is overpowered is if you explain it to someone and they go "Freaking AWESOME! I gotta do THAT!"
Which I believe we saw the OP do here.
No single feat should give that sort of orgasmic delight.
Not to mention every freaking druid or other AC build considers it to be essential to the concept.
It's exactly what the OP said. "Awesome."
Too awesome.
That's kind of silly way to determine if something is over powered. I judge on how it effects play. From my experience boon companion is often is a wasted feat. The effects are short live. What you get is big boost in the companion but as levels go by after that it get weaker and weaker.
The reason is clear why this happens. On druid they usually buff up their animal companions with magic items and spells. Ranger don't do this. They tend to be front line combatants and the animal companion gets little or no boost. Not saying it could be done but rangers just don't have the number or spells, level of spell or type of spells to pull it off successfully.
So really it's not worth it.
LOL, I'll call that an "outlyer" opinion.
Maybe rangers don't buff their animal companions as much as druids do because druids are full spellcasters instead of full BAB martial characters who can pump the enemy full of arrows so fast the AC barely has anything left to pounce on.
I'd still rather play an inquisitor than a ranger. The feat can't be that good.
The feat actually isn't that good. In fact it's a trap. On the surface it look awesome. But honestly you are no druid and the animal companion doesn't come in to play nearly as much with Ranger as it does with a druid.
The feat actually isn't that good. In fact it's a trap. On the surface it look awesome. But honestly you are no druid and the animal companion doesn't come in to play nearly as much with Ranger as it does with a druid.
Yeah, never struck me as that powerful. I think Rangers and Inquisitors are pretty similar. If a particular feat was so powerful it swayed completely to the other side I'd consider it OP. Boon companion doesn't do it for me.
Animal companions (with or without Boon companion) don't work like Drizzt's panther. They simply don't kick that much ass. Druid's can buff it, ranger's not so much
Hmm.... seems to me rangers are notorious skill-monkeys who excel in boosting specific skills, such as, say..... "use magic device"...
So a few wands and presto! Ranger buffer!
Hmm.... seems to me rangers are notorious skill-monkeys who excel in boosting specific skills, such as, say..... "use magic device"...
So a few wands and presto! Ranger buffer!
So now you are saying they need a decent charisma, and a trait to make it a class skill adn then they can use a standard action to put a level 1-4 buff on their companion..... No thanks and not very viable before what level 12? (assuming you also don't use yoru precious feats to get a skill focus UMD)
You mean you have characters that don't max out UMD? ;-)
Seriously even my druid is pushing UMD. Wands are a kick.
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Seriously even my druid is pushing UMD. Wands are a kick.
Perhaps UMD is really what is OP? ;)
You are certainly free to disagree with me James.
My general rule on whether something is overpowered is if you explain it to someone and they go "Freaking AWESOME! I gotta do THAT!"
Which I believe we saw the OP do here.
No single feat should give that sort of orgasmic delight.
Not to mention every freaking druid or other AC build considers it to be essential to the concept.
It's exactly what the OP said. "Awesome."
Too awesome.
That's kind of silly way to determine if something is over powered. I judge on how it effects play. From my experience boon companion is often is a wasted feat. The effects are short live. What you get is big boost in the companion but as levels go by after that it get weaker and weaker.
The reason is clear why this happens. On druid they usually buff up their animal companions with magic items and spells. Ranger don't do this. They tend to be front line combatants and the animal companion gets little or no boost. Not saying it could be done but rangers just don't have the number or spells, level of spell or type of spells to pull it off successfully.
So really it's not worth it.
LOL, I'll call that an "outlyer" opinion.
Maybe rangers don't buff their animal companions as much as druids do because druids are full spellcasters instead of full BAB martial characters who can pump the enemy full of arrows so fast the AC barely has anything left to pounce on.
Really it's just one of those feats that seem really cool at 5th level but 10th level you regret taking it. It's kind of like a Paladin taking Furious focus. It's still useful but you wish you could trade it out for another feat.
You are certainly free to disagree with me James.
My general rule on whether something is overpowered is if you explain it to someone and they go "Freaking AWESOME! I gotta do THAT!"
Which I believe we saw the OP do here.
No single feat should give that sort of orgasmic delight.
Not to mention every freaking druid or other AC build considers it to be essential to the concept.
It's exactly what the OP said. "Awesome."
Too awesome.
So what do you think about precise shot, power attack, etc?
Seriously even my druid is pushing UMD. Wands are a kick.
Perhaps UMD is really what is OP? ;)
Touche notabot, touche. You could make an argument that it is, frankly. At least compared to other skills. I mean it's a skill that lets any character control reality altering powers. Compare that to, oh, "swim" for example...
So what do you think about precise shot, power attack, etc?You are certainly free to disagree with me James.
My general rule on whether something is overpowered is if you explain it to someone and they go "Freaking AWESOME! I gotta do THAT!"
Which I believe we saw the OP do here.
No single feat should give that sort of orgasmic delight.
Not to mention every freaking druid or other AC build considers it to be essential to the concept.
It's exactly what the OP said. "Awesome."
Too awesome.
I think the point blank shot tree is a whole different subject frankly, and one that "power attack" also falls into (although "power attack" is overpowered on its own).
When you start talking about entire collections of feats just to make a common and useful character concept playable, now you are getting in the realm of concept taxes. Characters based on throwing have the same problem, but with additional burdens. In the game today "I want to play an archer" is pretty much synonymous with "I need to take PBS, precise shot, rapid shot, etc."
I really think the game should not force every ranged martial character to follow the same feat path for several levels before you can try to do something to make your character special. I'd rather see ranged characters be effective (but not overpowered) with more feats to color the character and less to make them fundamentally viable.
Following up on my original post, asking about the value of Boon Companion, I have to tell a quick story:
I emailed my GM about selecting Boon Companion, and didn't hear back from him. I showed up to play Saturday night, and he said he didn't want me to pick that feat - we're playing the Haunting of Harrowstone, which is designed for 4 beginning characters, and we generally have 5, or even 7 or 8 players. As a result, he's already having to juice up the encounters to make them challenging. So he felt that having my animal companion boosted to my level would make things too easy for us.
This leaves us with two things:
1) Another data point in the discussion of whether the feat is overpowered. (Not definitive, but this is the judgment of a very experienced GM - he even owns a game store).
2) A ranger who will continue to worry about his little kitty, and who may end up treating it as a disposable, replaceable probe rather than a valued flanking buddy and combat compadre.
What is a boon companion?
This leaves us with two things:
1) Another data point in the discussion of whether the feat is overpowered. (Not definitive, but this is the judgment of a very experienced GM - he even owns a game store).
2) A ranger who will continue to worry about his little kitty, and who may end up treating it as a disposable, replaceable probe rather than a valued flanking buddy and combat compadre.
#2 is not necessarily a problem with the animal companion. My 14th level ranger has never lost a companion and he's a 3.5 convert who never took "boon companion". He just has an animal companion and does his best to take care of it.
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Another data point in the discussion of whether the feat is overpowered.
Not a very relevant one, though. If you're playing a module designed for four first-level characters, and you've got as many as eight players (and a ranger of high enough level to have an animal companion) there are far more power-balance issues to deal with than whether the ranger's animal companion is first or fourth level!
Faced with a similar situation I have banned summoners, and any use of an animal companion or the like that adds yet another participant to combat. If I don't want a ranger running a fourth-level animal companion then I'm not going to want a druid running one either, and a druid wouldn't need Boon Companion. But that's not for balance issues - an encounter that will provide a reasonable challenge for eight characters isn't going to be totally overpowered by adding a ninth character (let alone a level-appropriate animal companion, which is generally less effective than a PC). I do it because the more players you have, and the more things a player has to select from on his turn, the slower combat goes.
I'd still rather play an inquisitor than a ranger. The feat can't be that good.The feat actually isn't that good. In fact it's a trap. On the surface it look awesome. But honestly you are no druid and the animal companion doesn't come in to play nearly as much with Ranger as it does with a druid.
It does once favored enemy comes into play. Actually a companion with favored enenmy bonuses is almost as good as one with boon companion. When you stack them it only gets better. A ranger's wolf companion accounts for about 35 DPR at level 10 while fighting favored enemies, and about 20 without the favored enemy bonus. IIRC that is without boon companion. I have never seen the numbers on what you get when you stack them, but I am sure it is in the 40's which is the same as a sneak attacking rogue.
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The feat said that "abilities" are increased. To me that means you only get the stuff in the special column and the str/dex bonus. Still good, but no where near overpowered. I haven't acted on this idea, but I do wonder if everyone in their excitement just thumbs down the table and doesn't stop to think what they actually get. In my opinion, familiars benefit more from this fear than actual companions despite the name.
Mostly food for thought... the feat is unclear and I don't want make others correct something that may not be wrong... I know I don't want to power-down my familiar that is 6 levels higher than my character from the combo of eldritch heritage and boon companion, my shadowcaster wouldn't know what to do!
Strength and dex are ability scores. Abilities are anything a character receives. Since "ability score" is a game term the feat would have to say "ability score" in order for you to be correct.
There is also this from the animal companion section which supports everything the animal companion gets which is on the table provided by Pathfinder:
An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits. Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the animal companion. They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them.
The table tells you everything the animal companion gets, not just ability score increases.
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My general rule on whether something is overpowered is if you explain it to someone and they go "Freaking AWESOME! I gotta do THAT!"
Yep, it is awesome for anyone that gets an AC at less than full power.
And Natural Caster is awesome for any druid that uses wildshap.
And Power Attack is awesome for anyone who uses melee
And Point Blank Shot + Precise shot is awesome for anyone who uses ranges.
And Spell Focus is Awesome for any caster targeting enemies.
And Augment Summoning is awesome for anyone using summoning spells.
I could go on. Every single build in the game has certain feats that are no-brainers.
Art, there are feats that are "no-brainers" and then there are feats that are "freaking awesome!". I think you mean "Natural Spell" when you say "Natural Caster" which is the feat that allows casting of spells while wildshaped. Here's a surprise for you, my level 9 druid does not have natural spell. She hasn't needed it because, surprise, she doesn't wildshape in combat that much, so it would be a literally wasted feat for most of her combat. Outside of combat she doesn't need it.
Point Blank Shot and the tree associated with it are required to make archery and other ranged builds not suck. That's not quite the same as "OMG that feat is freaking awesome!" To gain the effects of the PBS tree pretty much means dedicating half a dozen feats at least to archery. Not remotely the same thing as "boon companion."
What you are doing is suggesting that any feat which is desirable is equal to any other feat which is desirable, which essentially means that it is impossible for a feat to be overpowered since other feats are also desirable.
The issue isn't "does natural spell make druids better?" The issue is "does natural spell, at the cost of a single feat, essentially duplicate an entire class feature that is acknowledged to be among the most powerful class features in the game?"
Natural spell does not do that. Boon companion does.
Also, my druid does not have "spell focus: conjuration" nor "augment summoning" but it is worth noting that as good as "augment summoning" is, it is laughably weak compared to "boon companion" and to gain it requires investing TWO FEATS since "spell focus: conjuration" is a pre-requisite and "spell focus: conjuration" is pretty much a totally useless feat EXCEPT as a feat tax to gain "augment summoning."
In our campaign feats outside the Core and APG books are subject to GM approval owing to the slight but noticeable power creep that necessarily comes with new material.
In our game it would basically come down to a spotlight issue: Does the PC in question already monopolize combat? If so the GM would probably talk to him about choosing another feat.
This is good advice for groups in general - tread lightly when taking powerful feats. This could be a great feat for getting an otherwise underpowered PC back into line with the rest of the group or a terrible feat for aggravating an already existing power imbalance.
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Art, there are feats that are "no-brainers" and then there are feats that are "freaking awesome!". I think you mean "Natural Spell" when you say "Natural Caster" which is the feat that allows casting of spells while wildshaped. Here's a surprise for you, my level 9 druid does not have natural spell. She hasn't needed it because, surprise, she doesn't wildshape in combat that much, so it would be a literally wasted feat for most of her combat. Outside of combat she doesn't need it.
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.
If I showed up at a game with my current character, a gnome sylvan sorcerer with a giant frog mount, and was told "no boon companion", my response would be, "find another player." It is that simple. You can impose any house rules you want, but I don't have to play.