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actually you can only toss bombs for every attack you get from BAB, extra attacks from feats dont apply to that class feature.missed the part about requiring fast bombs,,Thanks!..now to find a new feat...You can't do this at level 1...bombs require a standard action not an attack action. You by RAW can't pull this off until level 8 when you can get Fast Bombs.I have built a ratfolk mindchemist for an upcoming campaign, not sure how he'll fair but with rapid shot and point blank i have 2 - d6+5 bombs per round at my disposal at lvl 1!
Eh this has been argued over and over again. Was it RAI for the developers? Nope. Is it RAW? Yep. You get another bomb for each attack you'd receive in a round. So taking Rapid Shot and TWF would actually net you 2 more bombs if you wanted them (Many Shot only applies to bows).
Sleetstorm, after all the posts that have been made on alchemist I hope you feel your question has been answered.
If you feel it hasn't then... well could say uncomplimentary things about you but given my mental state at the minute I'm holding back massively for my own benefit ("troll" would be the least of how I feel)
I can´t help you with your mental state, maybe you should speak to a therapist about it.
But anyway, condescending comments like this are not welcome.| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Confusion Bomb (Su)
Prerequisite: Alchemist 8
Benefit: The alchemist’s bombs twist the target’s perception of friend and foe. A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist. Reduce the amount of normal damage dealt by the bomb by 2d6 (so a bomb that would normally deal 6d6+4 points of damage deals 4d6+4 points of damage instead).
Does this really have no save...
Confusion Bomb (Su)
Prerequisite: Alchemist 8
Benefit: The alchemist’s bombs twist the target’s perception of friend and foe. A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist. Reduce the amount of normal damage dealt by the bomb by 2d6 (so a bomb that would normally deal 6d6+4 points of damage deals 4d6+4 points of damage instead).
Does this really have no save...
Under effect of confusion spell. So you look at what that spell does and see it allows a will save.
I agree it is poorly worded.
actually "under the effect of confusion" might mean that it's like if the spell already worked as only then can if effect someone.
But the intention should be that a willsave is allowed.
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wanna throw in my 2cp. it sounds like the alchemist is just not the right class for the op, and that's alright, but dont down on an awesome class because you don't like it.
i have a lvl 10 gnome alchemist with fire/acid/explosive/force/and tanglefoot bombs with 17/day, and have yet to run out. i also took ricochet shot, so very seldom truly miss. and i plan on taking extra discovery fast bombs at 11. i do a good job of locking down/killing alot of enemies and am very self reliant. i love this character, and have a great time plying him.
So what I take from this thread is you either play an Alchemist as Battlefield Controller/Support guy or a Vivisectionist that works like a Rouge (or maybe more like a Ninja).
If I would have to play an Alchemist I´d probably go for a Vivisectionist, but the Melee Bomb thrower/Damage Dealer that I looked for probably can´t be done effectively.
Pump STR and INT with some Dex. Build coming.
melee and bomb throwing really dont go that well together....
Opening Volley, from Ultimate Combat, can help you with that, but it has Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite.
Name: Alchemy McAlchemist
Race: Half-Orc
Player:
Classes: Alchemist8
Hit Points: 58
Experience: 51000 / 75000
Alignment: Neutral
Vision: Darkvision (60 ft.)
Speed: Walk 30 ft.
Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Giant, Goblin, Orc
Stat Score Mod
STR 16 (+3)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 13 (+1)
INT 20 (+5)
WIS 8 (-1)
CHA 9 (-1)
-------------------------- Skills --------------------------
Total/Rnk/Stat/Msc
------------------------------------------------------------
Skill
Acrobatics 12/8.0/3/1
Climb 7/3.0/3/1
Craft (Alchemy) 16/8.0/5/3
Craft (Alchemy/Create item) 24/8.0/5/11
Perception 10/8.0/-1/3
Sleight of Hand 14/8.0/3/3
Spellcraft 16/8.0/5/3
Stealth 11/8.0/3/0
Swim 8/5.0/3/0
Use Magic Device 10/8.0/-1/3
-------------------------- Feats ---------------------------
Cleave
As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a -2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
Extra Bombs
You can throw two additional bombs per day. Special - You can gain Extra Bombs multiple times. Its effects stack.
Great Cleave
As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the previous foe and also within reach. If you hit, you can continue to make attacks against foes adjacent to the previous foe, so long as they are within your reach. You cannot attack an individual foe more than once during this attack action. When you use this feat, you take a -2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
Power Attack
Armor Proficiency, Light
When you wear a type of armor with which you are proficient, the armor check penalty for that armor applies only to Dexterity- and Strength-based skill checks.
Brew Potion
You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures or objects. Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less, otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. When you create a potion, you set the caster level, which must be sufficient to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. To brew a potion, you must use up raw materials costing one half this base price. See the magic item creation rules in Chapter 15 for more information. When you create a potion, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell. Whoever drinks the potion is the target of the spell.
Simple Weapon Proficiency
You make attack rolls with simple weapons without penalty.
Throw Anything
-------------------- Special Abilities ---------------------
------------------------ Templates -------------------------
-------------------------- Combat --------------------------
Total / Touch / Flat Footed
AC: 22 / 18 / 19
Initiative: +3
BAB: +6/+1
Melee tohit: +9/+4
Ranged tohit: +9/+4
Fortitude: +7
Reflex: +10
Will: +1
Unarmed attack:
to hit: +9/+4
damage: 1d3+3
critical: 20/x2
Bomb:
to hit: +10/+5
damage: 1d6+10
critical: 20/x2
range: 20 ft.
special properties: 3d6 bonus damage
Flail +2 (Heavy):
to hit: +11/+6
damage: 1d10+6
critical: 19-20/x2
special properties: Bonus to disarm an enemy (pg. 144), May be used to make trip attacks (pg.145)
--------------------- Special Abilities --------------------
------------------------- Equipment ------------------------
Name/QTY/LBS
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2/1/1lbs
Flail +2 (Heavy)/1/10lbs
Headband of Vast Intelligence +2/1/1lbs
Mithral Shirt +2/1/10lbs/Special: 30 hp/inch, hardness 15
Ring of Force Shield/1/0lbs
Ring of Protection +1/1/0lbs
Total weight carried:
Current load:22lbs / Light
--------------------------- Magic --------------------------
Alchemist Spells
20 pt buy. Nothing special, it could probably be optimized quite a bit more I just threw this together in 45 mins. Throw stink bombs and then come in cleaving.
**EDIT**
Bombs are supposed to say 4d6+13 when including bonus 3d6 damage.
**EDIT EDIT**
Traits
Deft Dodger - + 1 to Reflex saves
Undead Slayer (Pharasma) - + 1 on weapon damage against Undead
Fast Bombs - Throw Additional Attacks amount of bombs as a full round action.
Precise Bombs - Choose Int Mod squares not affected by splash damage from bombs.
Smoke Bomb - When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an area equal to twice the bomb's splash radius for 1 round per level.
Stink Bomb - The effects of the smoke created by an alchemist's bomb can duplicate the effects of stinking cloud instead of fog cloud, f illing an area equal to twice the bomb's splash radius for 1 round. An alchemist must possess the smoke bomb discovery before selecting this discovery.
I think that playing the Alchemist as a damage dealer is a trap in the long run and that's why the OP is underwhelmed by it. The class is better played as a battlefield controller and a skill monkey. The OP mentionned Smoke Bomb, which are awesome, but there's also Tanglefoot Bomb, Confusion Bomb, Stink Bomb, Poison Bomb and Force Bomb. Furthermore, thanks to his mutagens and extracts, an Alchemist can become a better skillmonkey than a Rogue. Need to unlock this metal door? Drink your Dex-boosting mutagen and a Cat's Grace extract and make the party's Rogue cry.
I'm playing an versatile Alchemist in the first module of Carrion Crown right now and I'm having a blast. My bombs were really effective against groups of opponents and when faced against a single, strong opponent, I drink my Str-boosting mutagen, increasing my Str to 18, and wield my longsword (elven Alchemist) with both hands for 1d8+6 damage (with a mundane weapon).
Going pure Alchemist won't achieve the damage he would like. But going Fighter/Alchemist(Grenadier) could. In fact there is a Fighter Archetype that has the Bomb feature that stacks fighter levels with alchemist levels for bomb damage and allows you to take bomb based discovery in place of weapon training.
I am looking for the archetype now. If I find it I can post a build.
Going pure Alchemist won't achieve the damage he would like. But going Fighter/Alchemist(Grenadier) could. In fact there is a Fighter Archetype that has the Bomb feature that stacks fighter levels with alchemist levels for bomb damage and allows you to take bomb based discovery in place of weapon training.
I am looking for the archetype now. If I find it I can post a build.
I'm fairly certain that Paizo hasn't put out such an archetype.
I can't remember, it might not be exactly how I said. It might just be getting bombs that stack with alchemist levels. I had a player show it to me when they were planning a Fighter/Alchemist, though they didn't play it. They went with a straight alchemist build.
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That's probably 3pp stuff, since it sounds pretty cheesy to be honest. Bombs don't really need a damage boost.
Anyhow, I did not pick Vivisectionist with my alchemist, since those bombs were way too good to pass up. Sneak attack is nice, but there's so many ifs, particularly early on when moving around the battlefield is far more dangerous proposition, that I rather stayed vanilla than put all my eggs into one basket. My alchy is on level 14 now and I haven't had any regrets. Why?
Some simple reasons:
*Touch attack: With a 3/4 bab class that frequently has heroism and other buffs on there's very little stat and feat allocation needed to be able to put the thing into practice. Switch-hitting made easy.
*No save: I've lost count how many times even my meagre 15d6+9 has evened the odds against some combat monster. Against golems the ability is just silly. Especially if I have prepared spider walk beforehand
*Fast bombs: Yes, it costs you a discovery and there are many tasty ones, but with just that one discovery you get a hasteable touch attack that works off your full bab. 3 energy blasts every time you, say, consider moving and attacking unadvisable or impossible(flight, huge reach, etc) is nothing to scoff at
*Renewable resource: With a bomb pool of class level+Int(+possible favored class bonus+feats) you'll never be the kind of artillery platform a dedicated archer gets to be just by taking some token feats. However, those bombs cost nothing -you'll have a new batch every morning be it jungle or the king's court, they don't need to be +1 holy alchemical silver(though with devils you'll wish they were) and there's no quiver to be stolen, etc. Extended wilderness trips? A holiday in Cambodia? No problem!
Won't win you the numbers game, but for the regular adventuring alchemist bombs are a godsent. Even though that "god" might only answer the name Haagenti...
why not go straight melee Grenadier?
It seems to be exactly what you want (even if it's not that damage-optimized).
At the beginning of combat throw a smoke bomb or something to control, then infuse a bomb into your weapon and attack. You need lvl 15 till you can fullround attack, but the damage should be nice.
The directed blast can possible be used in melee.
On the other hand this archetype doesn't stack with beastmorph and is like a bad vivisectionist who can use some bombs.
Also you forgot the straight (damage) bomber in your list of viable/optimized alchemist builds, altough perhaps he is not always that different from the controller.
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http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/alchemist-build-guide/Already know that, and wasn´t too impressed.Really? Really?
A touch attack splash damage ability that deals energy damage is not impressive?
Does being ten times better than a rogue at nearly everything unimpressive?
Hey...what's with the cheap shot at rogues? 8-)
It isn't a damage boost. It is simply a fighter trading one of their class features for bombs.
Anyway. There are many builds for an alchemist. The thing is you will Either be focusing on melee or on bombs. This focus might be negligible but it still will be there.
And even some melee dedicated characters have a hard time getting the damage you want. At least getting it reliably.
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Anyone given thought to the mindchemist going with Kirin Strike?
Here is the relevant information;
In the mindchemest, you gain Perfect Recall allowing you to add your intelligence bonus to knowledge checks twice.
At 2nd level, a mindchemist has honed his memory. When making a Knowledge check, he may add his Intelligence bonus on the check a second time. Thus, a mindchemist with 5 ranks in Knowledge (history) and a +2 Intelligence bonus has a total skill bonus of +9 (5 + 2 + 2) using this ability. The mindchemist can also use this ability when making an Intelligence check to remember something.
This ability replaces poison use.
Kirin Style allows you to to make a knowledge check as a swift action to gain +2 to your AC and a +2 to dodge against that creature.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 1 rank.
Benefit: While using this style, you can spend a swift action to make a Knowledge check to identify a single creature (DC 15 + the creature’s CR for this purpose). If you succeed at the check, while using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against that creature’s attacks, as well as a +2 dodge bonus to AC against that creature’s attacks of opportunity. These bonuses last for as long as you use this style. If you cease combat with the creature during this time and resume it later, you can attempt the check again.
Kirin Strike allows you to add your intelegence modifier to one attack as a swift action twice.
You have read the texts of the perfect way, and know how identify to your enemies’ weak spot.
Prerequisite: Int 13, Kirin Style, Improved Unarmed Strike, Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 3 ranks.
Benefit: You gain a +2 insight bonus on Knowledge checks made to identify creatures, including the one Kirin Style allows. While using Kirin Style against a creature you have identified using that feat, as a swift action after you have hit a creature with a melee or ranged attack, you can add twice your Intelligence modifier in damage (minimum 2).
next up we have Targeted Bomb Admixture granting you double your int modifier with your bombs but they don't splash.
School transmutation; Level alchemist 1
CASTINGCasting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECTRange personal
Target you
Duration 1 round/level[This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.]
DESCRIPTIONUpon drinking an extract created with this formula, you make a significant change to your magical reserve that modifies the nature of all bombs you create and throw during this extract’s duration. This effect on your magical reserve has no effect on any discoveries that you use to modify your bombs, but you can only have one admixture effect (formula with the word “bomb admixture” in its title) active at a time. If you drink another bomb admixture, the effects of the former bomb admixture end and the new one becomes active.
When you throw bombs, they can only hit a direct target; they do not splash. However, the bomb deals its base damage plus double your Intelligence modifier instead of just its base damage plus your Intelligence modifier.
When you add kirin strike together with targeted bomb admixture, you gain bomb damage +2X int (targeted) +int +int (kirin strike) for a total of bomb damage +4X int bonus. normally 2 doublings equals a tripling, but with kirin strike you add twice your int bonus instead of doubling it. With the mindchemists ability to create cognatogens, a base int of 16, a +2 racial bonus to int and you can sit at 22 int easily with your cognatogen up.
Multiclassing as a level 1 Master of many styles (monk) or 1 level lore warden (fighter) gains your a lot of abilities. MOMS grants you kirin strike easiest, while Lore Warden grants you all int skills as class skills and a bonus feat to go toward Kirin strike.
Now lets take a level 6 PC, Mindchemist 5/MOMS 1. 22 int= +6 modifier. with a single point in a knowledge skill (say local) you take d20 +1 +12 +2 +3 =d20 +19 to make a DC 15 +CR check... aka atto succeed. (btw the bonuses are skill point, int modifier X2, Kirin Strike bonus, Class skill bonus) Then targeted bomb admixture plus the bonus from this grants you 4X your int in damage to your bombs. A level 5 alc has 3d6 +24 bomb damage from int alone. Add this to immolation bombs and you do 25 to 30 damage a turn for 3 turns, add 15 dc to any concentration checks made by that caster, and have him waste full round actions trying to put it out. This has the potential to do 90 damage per bomb chucked.
The main drawbacks with this are how soon you can gain kirin strike without the monk dip, swift action bloat (it takes a swift action to enter the stance, a swift to take the knowledge check, and a swift to gain the damage boost :S), it does not mesh that well with two weapon bomb throwing, and taking too many dips in MOMS and Lore Warden can weaken your bombs somewhat.
So what do you think? Any ways to improve this? Any other ideas that might make this better/quicker?
Bonus points for incorporating Beastmorph/clone master/internal Alchemist or any of the racial specific archetypes.
Also quick question, is the max skill points you can have in a skill = to your level or your level +3? Does the +3 bonus you gain for it being a class skill considered for the prerequisites of kirin strike? I think I am getting mixed up with an older rule set.
Now combine that with Half Orc for extra bomb damage.
The firebomber can be particularly nasty. Grab Burn! Burn! Burn! and add another 1d4 damage to it on top of extra damage based on the amoutn of dice rolled for it.
Another thing I forgot to mention in my above post was to add Breath Weapon Bomb at level 7. That same toon would get 3d6 +24 to every creature in the 15 foot cone. only really useful if you get surrounded, but it can really stack up the damage and it counts as a direct hit to all creatures touched.
Also, Im still asking about the skill thing. Would really like to know if you can get kirin strike at level 3 or level 6 normally.
Lastly, I love the firebomber. Great for high roleplaying games. Something about goblins, fire, and huge explosions really speaks to me... it whispers softly from across the room.... Put it out! Put it out! You stinking goblin Ill get you for this!!!
Corse I tend to be running in the opposite direction from that particular stall...
Gotta love Inferno bombs and rocket bombs!
Ps: might wanna try remote bomb with that. or go implant bomb with a mindchemist/clone Master. Anyone actually manage to kill you, everything dies..... Great fun with Simulacrums as well.
...Anyone given thought to the mindchemist going with Kirin Strike?
Here is the relevant information;
In the mindchemest, you gain Perfect Recall allowing you to add your intelligence bonus to knowledge checks twice.** spoiler omitted **
Kirin Style allows you to to make a knowledge check as a swift action to gain +2 to your AC and a +2 to dodge against that creature.
** spoiler omitted **
Kirin Strike allows you to add your intelegence modifier to one attack as a swift action twice.
** spoiler omitted **
Now this idea I like:)
Maybe needs some adjustments for me though. Does anybody know if I can use Focused Shot with the Explosive Missile discovery.
...Anyone given thought to the mindchemist going with Kirin Strike?
Here is the relevant information;
In the mindchemest, you gain Perfect Recall allowing you to add your intelligence bonus to knowledge checks twice.** spoiler omitted **
Kirin Style allows you to to make a knowledge check as a swift action to gain +2 to your AC and a +2 to dodge against that creature.
** spoiler omitted **
Kirin Strike allows you to add your intelegence modifier to one attack as a swift action twice.
** spoiler omitted **
Now this idea I like:)
Maybe needs some adjustments for me though. Does anybody know if I can use Focused Shot with the Explosive Missile discovery.Both are standard actions so I don't think so.
Alright thanks. that more or less answered my question.
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Personally, I expect to have fun with my battlefield support grenadier/bard. Start with gnome bard with pyromaniac racial trait, add 2 levels of alchemist, get 2d6+2 fire damage ranged touch, and add the ability to infuse alchemy into allies weapons (as a move action if I recall, so I can add 1d6 acid damage to the fighters sword and then take a 5 foot step and throw an explosive bomb at the enemy for another 2d6 fire + 1d6 continuing damage.) For a third level that's pretty nice, and the alchemist extracts very nicely fill gaps in the bard spell list. (like shield)
I have built a ratfolk mindchemist for an upcoming campaign, not sure how he'll fair but with rapid shot and point blank i have 2 - d6+5 bombs per round at my disposal at lvl 1!
Bombs are a standard action, so no rapid shot with them until you get teh fast bombs discovery at level 8
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Another option is pump up INT and DEX for weapons finesse. You produce less DPR and are limited, but you can then use extracts of bulls strength or of enlarge person and mutagens to buff damage output for a nova style fight. If you give yourself a 13 STR, you could also take power attack for 2h melee with a morningstar or longspear and do some damage. Then just use standard battlefield controller tactics for bombing.
How'd you get proficiency with your longbow?
That post is more than 5 years old, you may not get an answer.
Having said that, a number of races would get you proficiency, or the GRENADIER archetype would do it too (and is probably a good idea if you want to go ranged alchemist).