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Rule bending tricks that are still legal. (Compilation)


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Silver Crusade

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What I would like to do is compose a thread about combos that obviously bend the rules in a way that the designers didn't intend but are still "legal" according to the rules.

If you know of one please post it here.

Thanks!


Juju Oracles with their non-evil Undead.


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Monks with their overpowered Flurry of Blows. I mean, that's how many attacks per round?

Silver Crusade

VRMH wrote:
Juju Oracles with their non-evil Undead.

I'm not familiar with that one.

What makes this one special?


Normally, Undead (except Ghosts) are always evil, and the process of creating them is evil as well. But not so for the Oracle with the Juju Mystery and the Spirit Vessels Revelation:

Quote:
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. Necromancy spells that create undead lose the evil descriptor when you cast them. Mindless undead created by your magic are of neutral alignment, while thinking undead possess your alignment.

However, this was a mistake.


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G.L.a.D.O.S. wrote:
Monks with their overpowered Flurry of Blows. I mean, that's how many attacks per round?

7 at level 20... I'm honestly thinking of having a cooldown for this ability, because no one can seriously flurry every round, but if it was once per 1d6 rounds, then it would adequately represent the monk catching his breath and refocusing so he can flurry again.

I'm seeing a lot of hatred about the flurry, but compared to what non-flurrying monks can do with the TWF feat tree (like the Tetori), these complains are rather awkward, because a TWF non-flurrying monk is just as dangerous as a flurrying one.


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Is this thread a joke?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Is this thread a joke?

I'm doing my best to keep it so!

Silver Crusade

VRMH wrote:
Normally, Undead (except Ghosts) are always evil, and the process of creating them is evil as well. But not so for the Oracle with the Juju Mystery and the Spirit Vessels Revelation:
Quote:
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. Necromancy spells that create undead lose the evil descriptor when you cast them. Mindless undead created by your magic are of neutral alignment, while thinking undead possess your alignment.
However, this was a mistake.

Ahhhh....I see.

Silver Crusade

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Umbral Reaver wrote:
Is this thread a joke?

You posted here because?


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why oh why do people feel the need to bend the rules or cheat. What's the point, I don't care if it's legal or not it's still cheating and darn right annoying and rude for everybody else at the table.
It ruins the game for everyboddy else, if you don't like the game do something else.
It should be all about having fun with a group of friends not anatagonising other players and GM's!
Get a grip.
Rant over

Cheliax

1 person marked this as a favorite.
shallowsoul wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Is this thread a joke?
You posted here because?

I suppose he posted because he wanted to know if the thread is a joke. Either that, or he was implying that the thread is in fact a joke, and using a question medium to get his point across.

Silver Crusade

Mergy wrote:
shallowsoul wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Is this thread a joke?
You posted here because?
I suppose he posted because he wanted to know if the thread is a joke. Either that, or he was implying that the thread is in fact a joke, and using a question medium to get his point across.

I'm not sure if.....nah forget it.

Silver Crusade

ferrinwulf wrote:

why oh why do people feel the need to bend the rules or cheat. What's the point, I don't care if it's legal or not it's still cheating and darn right annoying and rude for everybody else at the table.

It ruins the game for everyboddy else, if you don't like the game do something else.
It should be all about having fun with a group of friends not anatagonising other players and GM's!
Get a grip.
Rant over

Oh I agree with you 100%


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flurry of blows isn't a game breaking mechanic or a rule that is being bent! I disagree


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Threads like these are quite useful to the novice GM, to easier recognise and nip in the bud any gamer shenanigans.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VRMH wrote:
Threads like these are quite useful to the novice GM, to easier recognise and nip in the bud any gamer shenanigans.

Goodness, yes. Whatever would we do without GMs to keep those pesky players in line?


Rule 0 is too easy to exploit. So many unintended work-arounds.


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Light Sensitivity can easily be overcome with sunglasses.

And Drow Elves with Ray-Bans are even cooler!


VRMH wrote:
Threads like these are quite useful to the novice GM, to easier recognise and nip in the bud any gamer shenanigans.

Right on. Let's pretend that was the intent of the OP (but I don't know or care if it actually was).


my munchkins guide to power gaming has a few ideas.
Bribe your GM with pizza.
Threaten your GM.
Sleep with your GM.

Make up dice rolls by snatching the dice before they stop rolling.
Spill coffee over your character sheet and "read" better numbers. (works also very well with dog)

or what other rule-bending do you mean?


Richard Leonhart wrote:
(works also very well with dog)

What do you mean, your dog has eaten your character sheet?


he could have chewed them a little but, till only *you* can read your own charactersheet.


Rather too straightforward to be a bend, but... lantern archons. Summoning swarms of them against anything big and scary with gobs of natural armor to whittle 'em away can make GMs cry.


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I suspect many readings of Charm X are outside of the intended capability. If you phrase things right you can get an awful lot of work out of "enemies" without them knowing they're going contrary to their nature.

Suggestion is pretty wobbly with the "reasonable suggestion" saving throw penalty.

The entire main line of X Image illusion spells hardly has any rules to bend and most uses hinge on working around what general illusion rules there are.

Osirion

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Toe claws.

7th level druids wildshaping into Mega Raptors with Strong Jaw and Deinonychus companions while convincing everybody that syntesists are overpowered.

Both legal by RAW, both cheesy.


Major image, it has sound (pick the same as shout), smell (pick the exact same smell as stinking cloud), thermal (same as fireball, or lava).

Too bad there is nothing that does damage just by looking at it (I guess picturing a medusa is pushing it).

Is this the kind of "legal" you are looking for? Like legally buying weed for your glaucoma.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Richard Leonhart wrote:

my munchkins guide to power gaming has a few ideas.

Bribe your GM with pizza.
Threaten your GM.
Sleep with your GM.

Make up dice rolls by snatching the dice before they stop rolling.
Spill coffee over your character sheet and "read" better numbers. (works also very well with dog)

or what other rule-bending do you mean?

Don't spill coffee on your dog!!! That's just mean and won't make your dog better, just wetter. ;-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Don't spill coffee on your cat either!!! It is also mean and won't make your cat better, just very wet.

If you do however, use your character sheet to wipe off your cat, this should make you character sheet perfectly unreadable.;-D


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There are tones of bits here and there that would fall into this category. Here are some that I have been reading up on.

The unkillable Familiar uses a certain familiar with shield other on the entire group, thrus granting the whole party a 50% reduction in damage. Jury still seems to be out on that one.

Magical lineage + walang spell hunter seems to have quite a few tricks you could do. Merciful fireball comes to mind ;] all your first level spells= merciful fireball, all your second level spells = merciful fireball, all your third level spells, ect...

Horizon Walker is full of neat tricks to exploit. same if you go for the Terrain Dominance tricks they talk about there.

Rage cycling in general has the potential to be retarded powerful. You can achieve this with, oracle lame curse, Martial Artist or Horizon Walker dips. some of the things you can do are; Spell sundering every round, Auspicious Mark rerolls, Clear mind, powerful blow, Ground Breaker, smasher, mighty swing, ect.

Alchemists in general have quite a few tibits you can exploit. Off the top of my head are Touch injection with detonate, touch your opponent and have him explode for 5d6 damage with no save and have him hurt everyone around him for 10d6 damage. Alchemical Allocation allows you to essentially cast any spell of any level multiple times by using up a second level spell slot. Think cure critical wounds at level 10 used 7 times a day with a int of 16. A internal alchemist only needs to breathe twice a day with a measly con score of 12, so is essentially immune to inhaled effects, and can survive underwater/vacuum. mix this with the fact that with 2 feats at level 10, she becomes immune to poison, disease, cold, non-lethal, sleep, and paralyzation. Most classes have effects that when combined unexpectedly, create strange effects. A monk using Dimension door and bull rush can allow you to teleport behind that wizard and bull rush him into the middle of your party. you just gotta look for things that might work together. Goblins firing Inferno Rockets with a radius of 40 feet anyone?

there chew on those while I try and find more :D For me just finding the different ways to exploit the rules is a game in of it self. I do not usually try to implement them, just find them.

Edit: I like that dinosaur druid idea you had there Artanthos. Im gonna have to look into that ;]


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Gunslingers killing like 7 Dragons a turn at level 12 or so.

Barbarians Spell Sundering anything.

Pretty much all spell casters at high level. Mind Blank is so annoying.

Sczarni

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The only think I can think of is the Peasant Railgun.

-Line up a bunch of NPC's.
-Give the one on the end a +5 shortbow with all the enchants you can.
-Peasant 1 fires it, then drops it. Peasant 2 picks it up (move action), fires it (standard), then drops it (free action).
-Repeat all the way down the line, for however many peasants you have.

Result: More attacks with your enchanted bow per round than you've ever seen in your life.


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All those outsiders with the greater teleport ability can't use it to escape from create pit, since the inside of the pit isn't part of the material plane and greater teleport forbids travel between planes.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Silent Saturn wrote:

The only think I can think of is the Peasant Railgun.

-Line up a bunch of NPC's.
-Give the one on the end a +5 shortbow with all the enchants you can.
-Peasant 1 fires it, then drops it. Peasant 2 picks it up (move action), fires it (standard), then drops it (free action).
-Repeat all the way down the line, for however many peasants you have.

Result: More attacks with your enchanted bow per round than you've ever seen in your life.

That is not the peasant rail gun, but it is sort of the same general idea.

The peasant rail gun is when a line of thousands of peasants pass an object down the line increasing its speed at an absurd rate due to the way the time rules work in D&D like games. Your thing I think is more problematic though.

Edit: Yours would be like a peasant gatling gun.


Artanthos wrote:

Toe claws.

7th level druids wildshaping into Mega Raptors with Strong Jaw and Deinonychus companions while convincing everybody that syntesists are overpowered.

Both legal by RAW, both cheesy.

This is not rule bending at all.


The trick where you cast a metamagic spell out of 0 level slot is rule bending, IMHO.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Timothy Hanson wrote:

That is not the peasant rail gun, but it is sort of the same general idea.

The peasant rail gun is when a line of thousands of peasants pass an object down the line increasing its speed at an absurd rate due to the way the time rules work in D&D like games. Your thing I think is more problematic though.

Edit: Yours would be like a peasant gatling gun.

Except those same rules don't account for the increase speed and the last peasant merely tosses the spear, for example, for 1d8 damage with a 20ft range increment. It's a great way to transport an object long distances however.

That bow trick could be nasty however.


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Queen Moragan wrote:

Don't spill coffee on your cat either!!! It is also mean and won't make your cat better, just very wet.

If you do however, use your character sheet to wipe off your cat, this should make you character sheet perfectly unreadable.;-D

Don't spill coffee anywhere. It's the beverage of the gods.


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The railgun depends on the inclusion of a little real-world physics. If 5,000 peasants move a 10-foot pole 10,000 feet in 6 seconds (1 round) it must be moving at an average speed of about Mach 7.5


Familiars can be the target of any spell with a target of “you”. Because of this, Alter Self turns them into Humanoids.


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Travel by animal:

If your ride skill is sufficient, you may mount an adjacent animal as a free action. You may also dismount as a free action.

This means you can traverse any distance so long as there is a string of animals separated by no more than five feet.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

I don't know if this is an exploit or not, but my urban druid effectively had a +2 STR at 6th level due to 1000 faces.


Trying to claim that you can't be counter spelled because your casting a stilled silenced spell with eschew materials.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

@shallowsoul:

So assuming Idea X is legal, how do you determine that it's still "rule-bending"?


clearly its based on if X makes a player able to do something that the GM doesn't like.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

As frequently as that seems to be the case all over the boards, I wanted to give shallowsoul the benefit of the doubt and see if he had some reasonable metric in mind.


The way I read it there are some feats that allow one to deflect a ranged attack, be it arrow, bolt, javelin or even ranged touch spell attacks. I see no mention of having to roll to perform this act, it just states you do it if you decide to.

Is this something like you are looking for?

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