Is Mithril Medium Armor useable with Monk or Rouge Evasion?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

First off hello everyone! :)

Secondly I have been playing pathfinder society recently and as a result have had the pleasure of playing with many great Gamemasters whom i would not normally have the pleasure of gaming with. Unfortunately I am coming across rulings that contradict much of what i have long held as fact. This is good and bad as I learn new things about the game. Even if I know it is wrong I just smile, shrug and accept the ruling at the time. However with all the Gamemasters i am dealing with some things are important to have consistant rulings on and legitamicy in those rulings that I can show to new GM's I meet.

That brings me to my third point and the reason for this thread. 2 Gamemasters today told me that Mithril armor does not lower it's armor type for purposes of abilities such as Evasion. The example was a Mithril Breastplate (medium armor) being ineligeable for use in a Paladin build that splashes two levels of Monk (Monk Evasion requiring light or no armor). What is the Pathfinder Society ruling on that issue?

Also for curiosity's sake is the magic item Ring of Evasion useable in Heavy armor? Or was it intended to mirror the evasion ability of another class i.e. Ranger or Rouge?

Though any input would be appreciated on the subject i would vastly prefer a game designer to answer (if he could spare the time) so as to provide legitamcy to the ruling when I show it to various Gamemasters.


Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.

So I'd say yes it would still work. As other than armor proficiency it "is" light armor. Your paladin/monk is fine, but if a pure rogue tried it he'd be taking armor check penalties to attack and everything else.


It should work. ask the DM to check the rules boards / reconsider, but understand if they say no.


RAW Mithril 'medium' is light armour. It requires medium armour proficiency to avoid the penalty (this is moot if you get a 0 armour check armour) but it still is light armour. Evasion works with light armour => evasion works in mithril 'medium'.

Those GM's are using houserules in effect, they would be wrong if they would claim it to be RAW.


To my understanding:

Mithril Breastplate still requires Medium Armor Proficiency to use without a penalty, the reason is that it is still medium armor - that just shares several characteristics with light armor. As such it should not qualify you to use your evasion class feature.


I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the part where it says it counts as light for movement and other limitations. What other limitations are there other than movement?

Scarab Sages

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I'd say by RAW evasion works in a mithral breastplate. Here's the actual rule:

When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

(Emphasis mine)

The rules look pretty clear to me. For "purposes of movement and other limitation" medium mithral armors "are treated as light." The only exception to this is "This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor." It goes on to specifically detail that this exception refers to armor check penalties.

So except for that one exception, medium mithral armor is treated as light armor for limitations. Clearly, not being able to use evasion in medium armor is a limitation.


If in doubt go for Elven Chain mail it's slightly more expensive and has one less max dex but.

Pathfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.

Emphasis mine :)

Silver Crusade

Wow that was an unexpectedly speedy reply! Thanks everyone! :)
Special Thanks to Owen K.C. Stephens for donating his time to the Pathfinder community to answer questions.

As for the "Ring of Evasion" ruling. Does anybody know the answer to that one? I have wondered for a long time if it was compatible with Heavy Armor as written. Especially since Pathfinder has expanded the Evasion ability to include Medium Armor in the case of the Ranger. Is the armor category limitation added on to "Evasion" on a class by class basis? Or is "Evasion" always restricted to light armor and the Ranger is the only exception?


First the humor, how is makeup wearing armor? Shouldnt makeup be considered armor?

Second the answer to Ring of Evasion:

PF did not alter many magic items while still removing other references that might those items make sense. (Note: this is just a statement, I will still take PF over 3.5.) As a result it is sometimes worthwhile to go back and look at 3.5.

3.5DMG p232 Ring of Evasion wrote:
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.
CRB p480 Ring of Evasion wrote:
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

Same text between the two rings.

3.5DMG p293 Glossary entry on Evasion wrote:
Rogues and monks cannot use evasion in medium or heavy armor. Some creatures with the evasion ability as an innate quality do not have this limitation.

Now, what this means to me is that they specifically called out that evasion is NOT universally restricted to no armor or light armor. PF has not done anything to the contrary. As a result I would state that back in 3.5 a Ring of Evasion did not restrict it to light armor and neither does the PF Ring of Evasion.

- Gauss


Ring of Evasion
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th

Slot ring; Price 25,000 gp; Weight —

Description
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

The last sentence is the important one. If you make your save you avoid the damage.

Silver Crusade

Thanks Gauss and Nicos for the helpful advice! Now I know that I have various options availabe to me for my Paladin as he levels up. I think I will stay Paladin the whole progression and pick up the Ring of Evasion to round out my defensive capabilities. Again everyone thank you for your input!

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Nicos wrote:

Ring of Evasion

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th

Slot ring; Price 25,000 gp; Weight —

Description
This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

The last sentence is the important one. If you make your save you avoid the damage.

"as if she had evasion" is blurry to me. Since Evasion works in light or no armor, i house rule in my games to clarify that a ring of evasion doesn't work in medium or heavy armor.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Seraphimpunk wrote:
"as if she had evasion" is blurry to me. Since Evasion works in light or no armor, i house rule in my games to clarify that a ring of evasion doesn't work in medium or heavy armor.

Note that rangers have evasion that works in medium armor, and as I understand it, some monsters have evasion with no armor limits at all.

Do you have a reason to think that "evasion" means "evasion like a rogue but not like a ranger or XYZ monsters"?

Seems to me that armor restrictions are specific to individual classes/situations, not inherent in evasion itself. As such, the ring bestows no such limitations.

Liberty's Edge

I have started a thread yesterday about the ring of evasion, it is here, you can click the FAQ to see if some Dev will give us a definitive answer.

I must add that several posts in that thread and in the "rule bending" thread have convinced me to 99% reliability that the ring is meant to work with any kind of armor.
Still a official reply to remove that last 1% of doubt would not be a bad thing.

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