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Alchemist: Batman, Boba Fett, Inspector Gadget- Utility item / tech guy


Advice


The alchemist seems well suited for this role: He has the requisite "tech" knowledge (alchemy), and has a diverse array of archetypes and abilities to fashion such a character. the dependence on intelligence also seems to make for a good detective.

So, if I were looking to make a detective/vigilante/bounty hunter, what Discoveries would best suit that?

What archetypes would suit that?

I am fairly interested in trying this sort of character out, seems quite fun. Would use his mutagens and thrown weapons to boost combat abilities, and I figured various discoveries/alchemical creations would lend themselves to some interesting utility roles.

Vivisectionist seems to be an effective skirmisher, a sort of Batman, while a grenadier seems like a great Boba Fett. Inspector Gadget kinda fits in everywhere.

Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

Shadow Lodge

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A Boba Fett? Does that mean your character gets a ridiculous amount of fanwanking despite never actually bothering to do anything particularly noteworthy? :P


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Have you considered the Experimental Gunsmith?

By the way, the three characters you listed are very different concepts, and have less in common than you seem to believe.

I suggest picking one first.


nah, I just mean has access to/uses various technologies and gadgets (in Boba Fetts case, like jetpacks, and according to D20 Star Wars, whipcords, grenade launchers, missile launchers, darts, grappling hooks, etc.).

Im just looking for a character that uses smart, clever tactics and technology, (in this case, alchemy) to even the odds with opponents who would be otherwise superior.

Whether this depends primarily on bombs, formulas, mutagens, or whatever... I am interested in your opinion/experience!


What/Where is Experimental Gunsmith? (If its 3PP, I am not interested)

Second, i only mention these characters due to their dependence on technology to overcome obstacles and foes, and commented not at all on any other similarities.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Experimental Gunsmith is a gnome gunslinger archetype from the ARG.
A dip into Alchemist can turn your bullets into bombs, and with the Master Tinker alternate racial trait, you are proficient with anything you build yourself.

Experimental Gunsmith is here.


eh, gnomes... no thanks.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, you could always go human(or Aasimar) and pick up Racial Heritage(Gnome), then go into Experimental Gunsmith.


Kat Tenser wrote:

What/Where is Experimental Gunsmith? (If its 3PP, I am not interested)

Second, i only mention these characters due to their dependence on technology to overcome obstacles and foes, and commented not at all on any other similarities.

Experimental Gunsmith is a gnome gunslinger archetype from the advanced races guide. it turns your firearm int a steampunk monstrosity...me likey


Its not bad, but the drawbacks are a bit full on... I don't see the point in basically compromising the reliable function of your primary weapon. A regular gun isn't bad with the gunslinger class, but that archetype basically negates the advantage gunslingers have with guns. Well, it seems that way to me at first glance.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Combining Mysterious Stranger and Experimental Gunsmith would make a great combo.
If you decide on Aasimar, I would go Peri-Blooded, with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait. The +2 Int and +Cha would synch well.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This product has a lovely system for being able to create temporary gadgets, using a model of class-based gold allowance per day, and able to make wondrous items with some large balancing factors. Would work really, really well for this type of character, especially since Mutagen doesn't really make sense.


I definitely feel alchemist has much more utility than the gunslinger. The gunslinger shoots things, thats it. The alchemist has many more options, as befitting a more tactically minded character.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Starting in Gunsmith/Stranger, then going into Alchemist and grabbing the Explosive Missile discovery will allow you to shoot bomb laded bullets.

I suggest human, for filling out the gadget fueled jack-of-all-trades.

Sczarni

Kat Tenser wrote:
I definitely feel alchemist has much more utility than the gunslinger. The gunslinger shoots things, thats it. The alchemist has many more options, as befitting a more tactically minded character.

You are right and I will not argue that, BUT if you want to be a contributing member of your adventuring party you will have to pick ONE aspect of the Alchemist and run with it.

You can be a bomber, a melee monster, a ranged expert or a skill monkey, but you can not be effectively all of them.


I know, i was just saying that I am happy to fill any one of those roles... I shouldve been more clear, but I am kinda waiting for someone to sell me on one of them. Skillmonkey is easy to fill on any case, due to 4+INT skills and a heavy focus on INT as a primary stat.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Other than Inspector Gadget, all mentioned characters use a gun of sorts.

Inspector Gadget would entail using tons of gadgets, and failing miserably doing so effectively. He basically achieves goals through sheer luck.

Sczarni

And I think we all agreed elsewhere that Batman is more of an Unarmed Ninja...


meh, use ARG to make yourself a half-construct, then get craft magic item skills up the bazoo, and just start strapping stuff on. when ya get some real money invest in a construct limb and give it more abilities. boba fett solved.... ps you'd make a hell of a bounty huter, no sleeping, never gets tired, the energizer bunny of bounty hunters.


What would be more effective for combat: Mutagens, bombs, or Grenadier archetype with bombs?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Grenadier/Mindchemist with bombs. Focusing on the smoker option will allow battlefield control, and still keep damage high.
Stink bomb will be a crowning moment.
Nauseated is rough condition.


Trapper Ranger with Master Craftsman and Craft Wondrous Items feats. Your BAB and HD never suffers and you have your "gadgets."

Sczarni

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Grenadier/Mindchemist with bombs. Focusing on the smoker option will allow battlefield control, and still keep damage high.

Stink bomb will be a crowning moment.
Nauseated is rough condition.

I am playing the Grenadier Archtype now in PFS and I couldn't be happier with how much fun this character is.


I'd go with Batman as an Alchemist probably with whip mastery and a trait to give him stealth.

Boba Fett is a ranger with some good gear

Inspector Gadget's a Synthesist summoner using evolution surges to get his one off gadgets and building the rest into his "form". ("Go go gadget ???!" is obviously a spell :P)

Sczarni

There is no way I'd build Batman as an Alchemist...maybe Spider Man in the Amazing universe, but Batman is definitely an Unarmed Strike Ninja (maybe with a Monk dip).


I supose it depends which batman you are building really as there are as many versions of him as authors.

I was concentrating on the bag of tricks he carries such as various batarangs with effects ect. Something that a ninja by itself could not do without a massive amout of magic items however a Grenadier/Vivisectionist Alchemist can

Now if 3.5 stuff was available there is a realms feat called carmendine monk that swops monk to int so a few levels of that with alchemist and i think you'd have him.


You're going to have to do some heavy re-skinning of whatever class you take. Ultimately, you're going to want to decide what you want your character to do, mechanically, and reskin the fluff.

- Do you want a lot of esoteric effects using high sci-fi like things? Wizard/Sorcerer.
- Do you want to play the above, but as an absent-minded scientist who gets help from his trusty robot-companion? Witch.
- Do you want to play a scientist with a penchant for explosives, who mutates (or straps on metal) to people temporarily? Alchemist.
- Do you want to play a straight-forward gunslinger with high-tech options? Gunslinger.
- Do you want to play a stealth-rogue that uses technology to get the advantage? Ninja, reskin Ki as an actual powersource.

Etc, etc.


... I get that batman is an unarmed ninja.
... I get that boba Fett is probably a Ranger.
... I get that Inspector Gadget is a bumbling moron.

All i am saying, is that I would like a character that uses "gadgets", i.e. technology, in this case, alchemy.

I think some of you are getting a bit hung up on the characters that i used as an example, as opposed to the methods they have in common: using "technology" to give themselves an upper hand in a fight, and using technology as a route to out of combat utility. In hindsight, i could have worded my request in a clearer manner. My apologies.

IN any case, you have all been helpful, keep the ideas coming!

How does a grenadier/mindchemist work? since (I assume) the method here is to get a high intelligence bonus on splash weapons, but the grenadier basically makes splash weapons (bombs, alchemists fire, etc.)not splash, by "attaching" them to ammunition.

again, thanks to everyone!

Sczarni

Grenadier is there to get the free Precise Bombs so you get Smoke Bomb and stuff faster.

It also gets you Directed Blast which I like for an Alchemist because most of the time you are closer to melee than a normal ranged character due to short range splash weapons, AND you get a free Martial Weapon proficiency.

Mindchemist is there to just buff that Int up as fast and hard as you can...thats pretty much the jist of it.

You can NOT combine Grenadier and Mindchemist...not sure if you were sure of that or not but just wanted to clarify.


One concept I've discussed with a few of my gamer group GM friends, but never actually played, is a "gadget-monkey" that uses specialized skills to "MacGuyver" stuff. We've discussed skills like "improvise device" and "craft: gadget". To advance in those areas the character would have to invest skill ranks in them. I suppose you could add a "gadget-master" trait which would make those skills class skills for the character. Then if you wanted to craft a gadget or improvise something, the GM would just set an appropriate DC and you'd make a roll. It might take hours to make something though, and could cost a lot of gold.

In 4e I play a "Batman" style ranger, but his "gadgets" are mostly magic items or magic weapons that he uses for specific purposes. But the magic item selection in 4e is exponentially more varied and useful than in Pathfinder.

I've always wanted to play a gadget-master using the skills approach. But even though my GMs seem OK with the concept, I've just never actually pulled it off. Maybe next time.


Yeah, I think I would like playing a Grenadier. Seems like it would be a sort of... specialized infantry. IF anyone else has Grenadier advice (or any other build advice!) I'd love to hear it!


I'm not actually too familiar with Alchemist's, but from my point of view, if you wanted someone like Batman, you could dip into Rogue/Ninja or multi-class for some Sneak Attack bonuses, then purchase a Grappling Hook, renaming it to the Batclaw, also have some Shurikens, maybe giving one the returning property to act like a proper Batarang, as well as shaping it like the Batman symbol through craft.

Then, you can use your Alchemy augmentations to Fly, but you could say it acts more like gliding and only works when you hold your cape out and the rest could just be disguise.

Stats could focus on Strength, Intelligence and Dex, with your main skill choices being Acrobatics, Climb, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Perception, Stealth and Survival.

I've excluded Fly because if he glides, it's hardly flying. :p

Melee combat would be Spiked Gauntlets (Batman fights with his hands, but has blades running up the forearm section of his gloves).

Feats to consider would be Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Death From Above (Ultimate Combat).

Then choose whatever you want to do with your Alchemy skills and abilities. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Come to think of it, the Alchemist would fit Bane better than Batman.

Sczarni

Look Here

I followed pretty closely to Ogre's Advice for this with the Grenadier Archtype obviously.


So I read the guide... It doesn't address the grenadier archetype specifically, but I assume the build would be basically the same?
Are there any specific changes I should make?

Thanks a lot everyone!


The Grenadier and Mindchemist don't stack, sadly. There is nothing particularly special about the Grenadier that forces you to swap builds--you just get Precise Bombs for free and some extra options.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You do lose brew potions which I don't think you qualify for if your GM is stickler for RAW. But that's about it.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I like the Mindchemist. Very "Hulk Smart" with the Cognatogens.

Sczarni

Kat Tenser wrote:

So I read the guide... It doesn't address the grenadier archetype specifically, but I assume the build would be basically the same?

Are there any specific changes I should make?

Thanks a lot everyone!

I didn't make any changes when I followed that guide other than going with Grenadier.

If you get a chance pick up a Goz Mask...especially if you have anotehr caster in the part with fog spells. You can essentially tie down the enemy with fog while you just keep chucking away bombs without miss chance.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Combining Mysterious Stranger and Experimental Gunsmith would make a great combo.

If you decide on Aasimar, I would go Peri-Blooded, with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait. The +2 Int and +Cha would synch well.

The problem is that the Mysterious Stranger's Stranger's Fortune ability and the Experimental Gunsmith's Innovations both replace the regular Gunslinger's Gun Training ability, and the way I understand it is that archetypes that replace the same abilities can not be taken simultaneously. So, in this case he would have to choose between taking the Mysterious Stranger or the Experimental Gunsmith but not both. (At least not without DM approval in order to work.)

Sczarni

Kitsune Knight wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Combining Mysterious Stranger and Experimental Gunsmith would make a great combo.

If you decide on Aasimar, I would go Peri-Blooded, with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait. The +2 Int and +Cha would synch well.
The problem is that the Mysterious Stranger's Stranger's Fortune ability and the Experimental Gunsmith's Innovations both replace the regular Gunslinger's Gun Training ability, and the way I understand it is that archetypes that replace the same abilities can not be taken simultaneously. So, in this case he would have to choose between taking the Mysterious Stranger or the Experimental Gunsmith but not both. (At least not without DM approval in order to work.)

Thats true...and Mysterious Stranger IMO is the weakest of all the Gunslinger Archtypes.


Yeah, Ive always wanted a Goz Mask, and i imagine it would look awesome on a Grenadier.

I also read a James Jacob post where he says that the Alchemist still gets the INT bonus damage to splash weapons, even if they no longer splash. (as per the Alchemical Weapon ability, or the Explosive Missile Discovery).

Another Question: Is Explosive Missile Discovery worth it for a Grenadier? Its something i didnt see in Ogre's guide. It seems like a cool discovery, But limits bomb use to one bomb/round, if i read it right.


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How is this for a build?

20 point buy, Human Alchemist (Grenadier)

STR 12
DEX 14 (16)
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 13
CHA 8

1 Point Blank Shot
1 Precise Shot
3 Deadly Aim
5 Rapid Shot
7 Extra Bombs
9 Iron Will
11 Imp. Precise Shot
13 Improved Initiative
15 Improved Iron Will
17 Focused Shot
19 Many Shot

Discoveries
2
(2) Precise Bombs
4 Explosive Missile
6 Smoke Bomb
8 Force Bomb
10 Stink bomb
12 Poison Bomb
14 Infusion
16 Elixir of Life
18 Tanglefoot Bomb
20 Dispelling Bomb
20 Concussive Bomb
20 (Grand Discovery) Fast Healing???

Guess I would be using a Composite Longbow. I wouldnt mind fitting in Finesse and an Agile Spiked Gauntlet, but whatever. I also didn't see anymore Discoveries I really wanted to spend Extra Discovery on, am I missing something??

Thanks a lot everyone, you've been very helpful.

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