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I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin. What is the appeal of PFS aside from if one has a "being told NO,"fetish?
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1)Being able to play the character in any scenario or santioned modules as long as you meet the level requirement, no matter who the GM is or where you are and as long as you haven't played it before
2)All characters are balanced - no low level characters will over powered gear
3)No crazy insane high level characters with godlike powers
4)It's fun
PFS is no more restrictive than any other network campaign. Network campaigns will generally have restrictions because of the inherent nature of a campaign that has to serve thousands instead of just 4. Importantly it also has to cater to a wide variety of age groups.
It's a compromise to serve the many instead of just the one.
That being said, like almost everything in life, it's not everyone's cup of tea.
And if you think a 20 point buy is restrictive, I wonder what you would have made of Living Greyhawk's 15 pt buy for 3.5.
I've heard 15 point buy referred to as"your GM hates you" buy. Lol. 20 point buy characters wouldn't last very long in one of my groups campaigns, possibly not the first session.
What is the appeal of PFS aside from if one has a "being told NO,"fetish?
The appeal is that players are free to pick up a game whenever and wherever they're available. In most home games I've played in, dropping in and dropping out unannounced would be frowned upon to say the least! Not to mention that you'd be dropping into (and out of) the middle of a continuing story, as opposed to playing shorter scenarios from beginning to end (a la PFS).
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Not necessarily for everyone and definitely different than a home campaign.
But...
Lots of pre-written (and mostly well-written) adventures that cover a lot of territory in Golarion.
Meta-plot and scheming for those who enjoy such things. Ignoring that stuff is entirely possibly 95% of the time for those that don't.
Low-commitment gaming. Sign up, show up, play for four hours, go on with your life. If you can't make the next session, the game goes on and your character isn't penalized.
Meet new people. I know we gamers have an anti-social reputation, but sometimes it is fun to roll dice with people you haven't met before. Yeah, some of them are jerks, but some of them are a lot of fun.
Try your character out in a variety of different situations, with different GMs. A steady home group is awesome, but sometimes it can be an echo chamber with the same people, making the same types of characters and the same jokes. See how your roll-playing or roleplaying fare in the wider world.
Sense of community. Even with the aforementioned jerks, there are a lot of cool people who organize, play and GM. Having a shared experience with those folks can be fun and interesting.
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Low-commitment gaming. Sign up, show up, play for four hours, go on with your life. If you can't make the next session, the game goes on and your character isn't penalized.
For me this has to be the #1 reason.
And I for one do not feel like PFS restrictions inhibit my fun in any way, shape or form so far. I also hate playing (and GMing) any 30+ point buy campaigns. Different strokes for different folks.
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Restrictions can force creativity as well. Many players seem to think the first 8 or so levels are all about building up to their 'uber' character around 9th-10th level when they qualify for 'the good stuff' (classic example is the Mystic Theurge). Knowing your character ends at 12th level is incentive to make your characters work earlier rather than later.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin. What is the appeal of PFS aside from if one has a "being told NO,"fetish?
PFS is a great framework for playing with people you've never met before. At conventions, while on the road, or if you have trouble gaming on a consistent basis in your local area.
If you want to play with the same group of people every week, you are probably better off with a home campaign where you can set your own rules.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin.
PFS allows PCs built with 33% more points than the CR system assumes and allows material from 83 different sources.
You call that restrictive?
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I've been gaming for 30+ years and I don't find PFS restrictive at all. I think maybe you're looking for something that PFS isn't? I'll address your concerns anyway.
1) 20 point buy: If that's a problem then it isn't for you. It's still high fantasy though. I think most people would get used to it, if you like roleplaying.
2) 12 lvl cap: No longer exists, you can play modules to level 20 (and get credit for it).
3) Tons of paizo material not allowed: Almost everything is allowed. The only things aren't allowed are evil PCs. So no Anti-Paladins. If you desire to play evil PCs, yeah, wrong campaign.
The following thread outlines the benefits and weakness of Organized Play.
I'm obviously a huge fan.
For me, it's been a lot of fun playing with a wide variety of players and GMs from all over the country. Also, you become a better player/GM as you're exposed to new ideas.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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So, I'll bite even though it seems like OP has his mind set on not liking PFS.
It has many benefits for both GMs and players:
As a GM:
- A lot of the work is done for you. Not everyone can create adventures. It gives new and veteran GMs the chance to run games, without having to create their own. Those with that creativity can submit their own adventure for use.
- Reasonably well balanced power range. As some have stated, what some people find is "balanced" depends from person to person. But, with an established set of rules/feats/items, etc to pick from, you can have new players at your table, without having to worry about them having too many powers outside of your accessible knowledge base.
- Meet new people! As a GM, you get to meet new people, and potentially find players who meet your play style.
- Make a future generation! You get to be responsible for the possible introduction of players into the world of roleplaying. My first experience with roleplaying was with PFS, and I like it.
As a Player
- Flexible Time Commitments. With PFS, you don't have to come every session. If work gets in the way of one game day, you're perfectly fine. When game days don't depend on your coming, feel free to take the day and do something else.
- Meet new people! See the note in the GM section above.
- Learn from others. Along with meeting new people, you get to see new play styles, concepts, etc.
- Resource Management. With what some would consider "limited" resources, you get to carefully manage your character's progression and weigh the choices made.
I would continue, but I've got to run at the moment. c_c
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I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin.PFS allows PCs built with 33% more points than the CR system assumes and allows material from 83 different sources.
You call that restrictive?
I've heard in many threads the this or that isn't allowed and 95 % or so of the time we're not even talking 3rd party material, so yes when compared to the paizo published material available to what is allowed in PFS yes seems restrictive. Many of the posters here have swayed my view slightly, those who stated their points without resorting to direct attack style statements. Thanks for the enlightenment for those with constructive points! To the rest of you, troll on ;-) I shall revel in the nerdrage a while longer.
I don't mind the restrictions. First is that I do a little min/max in certain areas for a theme I want but generally I am happy with making a working character. I have to be honest in that I normally look for something more off the wall to play that can function as being helpful to the team.
I don't have much other choice at the moment. I can live with it as I do enjoy the opportunity to play. I do know that I like to have some restrictions and that a powergame is not to my liking. I have hard enough time in PFS with some of the builds as I know players builds are maximized for what they want. Just played over the weekend with a 1st level archer that had a +8 to attack and +3 to damage without favored enemy. I don't even know how a first level character can do that. Seems to be enough ways to bend the rules as is without playing a powergame.
To the rest of you, troll on....
That wasn't me, was it? If so, I apologize; I was being honest.
Actually you are a mild or I misunderstood you case, but some of the earlier folks got pretty heated it seemed, particularly mr lazarx. btw, Living Grey Hawk is no longer "living" for a reason...too gritty for most perhaps? 3.5 dnd eclipsed by Pathfinder?
Wai, I knew something didn't sound right, living Greyhawk was never intended as a 15 point buy convention play was set for 28 point buy. Perhaps check facts before attacks?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Ah. Well, in any case, I don't think you'll find 20pt PCs too restrictive. Sounds like you're thinking they wouldn't be powerful enough? Is that what you mean? If so, be aware that so many people have complained that combats were too easy that starting in August they're having to kick it up a notch.
As for sources, well, I guess I don't actually know how many are out there, but 83 seems pretty wide-open to me. I suppose I could be wrong.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
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On the other hand, OP, as you cite the lack of an Anti-Paladin as being a testament to badfun, may I suggest that the anti-social attributes of an anti-paladin sort of ruin the day of other people and cancel out their fun, so if thats your idea of a good day then perhaps Society (you know, being social and stuff) probably isn't your bag?
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I've heard in many threads the this or that isn't allowed and 95 % or so of the time we're not even talking 3rd party material, so yes when compared to the paizo published material available to what is allowed in PFS yes seems restrictive. Many of the posters here have swayed my view slightly, those who stated their points without resorting to direct attack style statements. Thanks for the enlightenment for those with constructive points! To the rest of you, troll on ;-) I shall revel in the nerdrage a while longer.I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin.PFS allows PCs built with 33% more points than the CR system assumes and allows material from 83 different sources.
You call that restrictive?
The only person I ever considered to be trolling in this thread is the OP, which is you.
Same world, different realities. Its crazy!
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In all honestly, I felt pretty similar to the OP when I first started playing PFS. It felt almost like an MMORPG to me, with the whole restricting how much equipment you can buy/use (based on prestige) even if you have the gold for it and having to play by a very strict set of rules.
I've been playing for a bit over a year now and I love it. Yes, it is different and in some ways, more restrictive than a home game, but I have found I like that for this kind of campaign. It needs to have some restrictions in order to be played the way it is. I have played at tables with completely strangers out of town and at conventions, and we have all had fun because we all play by the rules. If the rules weren't there, I'm sure there would be people who would be so powergame-y it just wouldn't be fun.
I also play/GM in a couple of non-PFS home games, so I can still have fun with houseruling and homebrewing stuff. I would encourage anyone to give PFS a try before they knock it. If you play in a few scenarios and you don't like it, no harm, no foul. There's no obligation or commitment to return if you don't want to. If you do like it, hey, now you have another campaign to play in when you have time to.
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Wai, I knew something didn't sound right, living Greyhawk was never intended as a 15 point buy convention play was set for 28 point buy. Perhaps check facts before attacks?
Absolutely Correct.
It is worth noting that it was a completely different buy system. Stats cost more and 8 was considered the baseline instead of 10. It's equivalent in Pathfinder is the 20 point buy.
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I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin. What is the appeal of PFS aside from if one has a "being told NO,"fetish?
1) Getting to go to a con and meet new people without getting stuck with someone elses character (in personality and crunch) to play
2) More crunch than most of my home games
3) A more or less guaranteed set schedule
4) Ability to easily trade off DMing.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Guys?
This thread can obviously go nowhere pleasant, and will result in nothing but a flame war and bad feelings. Call it a day.
Agreed. The OP has received an answer, so perhaps letting the thread die is the way to go. Any further discussion should be non-inflammatory or I'll just lock the thread. Thanks!
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I don't have much other choice at the moment. I can live with it as I do enjoy the opportunity to play. I do know that I like to have some restrictions and that a powergame is not to my liking. I have hard enough time in PFS with some of the builds as I know players builds are maximized for what they want. Just played over the weekend with a 1st level archer that had a +8 to attack and +3 to damage without favored enemy. I don't even know how a first level character can do that. Seems to be enough ways to bend the rules as is without playing a powergame.
Assuming that it is the archer's second game:
Str 16Dex 20
other stats? Low to middling
Race: Human
Class: Fighter
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Longbow
Spend 2 PP to get that infamous Darkwood composite longbow (masterwork) Str +3, so:
To hit:
Dex +5
WF +1
MW +1
BAB +1
Total: +8
Damage:
Str +3
Probably only has 10 or 11 hit points, maybe 3 skill points.
Definitely a one-trick pony, although a very effective trick in helping during combat.
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my vote would be for the Paracountess and Major what'his'name.... on either side of the most/least coin.Guys?
This thread can obviously go nowhere pleasant, and will result in nothing but a flame war and bad feelings. Call it a day.
Don't feed the troll, folks.
/bows out of thread
yeah...
wait, let's re-direct it.which faction head is most/least likely to wear tighty-whiteys?
Did you get that inverted?
The way you have them ordered, it looks like you are saying that the Paracountess is most likely to be wearing tighty-whiteys, while Major Colson Maldris is least likely to? Yeesh.
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Haven't read the thread. Just the title of the thread reads as "I'm a troll! Delete this thread!", according to my Troll-to-English dictionary. So why does this thread have 40 posts?
I flagged the first post as abusive, and hopefully the mods will delete the whole mess shortly. Don't feed the troll.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson
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I don't know but to me 20 point buy, a 12 lvl cap, tons of Paizo material not allowed including certain classes like Anti-paladin. What is the appeal of PFS aside from if one has a "being told NO,"fetish?
20 Point Buy? I find the 20-point buy fairly generous, equal to a 28-point buy in 3.5. Maybe I'm a point-squeezing grognard, but that is more than I ever allowed in my home games.
Character Limitations? I've played in a lot of organized play campaigns. Many of their rules are meant to keep the small minority of jerk players from ruining the fun of the majority. Many of the people who prefer evil PCs use their alignment to justify obnoxious behavior, such as betraying their own teammates. This might not be a problem in a home game where everyone knows each other, but in a public game with strangers at the table, it's very annoying. Others use their evil alignment to justify disgusting or alarming behavior from their character: Many people don't want to game at the same table as "Rotguss, the Nun Raper" or "Thorarts, Burner of Infants".
Advantages of Org Play? Before I tried Organized Play, my games were often at the mercy of players or GMs who just weren't compatible with my style and interests. I had to suffer through bizarre home rules, good friends who weren't good players, games that fell apart just as they were getting good, players who didn't show up, and other frustrations. Since I began participating in Org Play, I've met scores of new gaming friends. I can study a gamer's style BEFORE inviting him to join a game at my house, no longer having to worry that a gamer won't be compatible. Since many sessions have multiple tables, I can often keep players who don't get along from having to put up with each other. I can also take my characters to a convention anywhere in the country and know that I'll get to use them.
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Which still doesn't make Living Greyhawk a 15 point buy. If it's roughly equivalent to 20...
All of which is irrelevant to the topic at hand, because LG did not "die" because it was too restrictive. It was shut down by the RPGA after Hasbro released 4E and started the Living Forgotten Realms campaign using the new rules.
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I've never understood the aversion to low-point buy. My preference is 15, but to each his own. It all depends on the power-level of the campaign. If it is deadly (read: heroic) you might need higher attributes. If not, then lower stats are just fine. There is really nothing wrong with a 14/14/12/12/11/10 array (before racial adj). Considering that the majority of scenarios are thought to be less challenging, I don't see 20 point buy as a restriction at all. Only with a very small minority of character concepts that are extremely M.A.D. is 20 point buy a detriment to the PC concept. A starting array of 16/14/12/12/11/10 (before racial adj) is plenty adequate for nearly all character builds in PFS.
The "real" reasons to play in an organized campaign are, IMO, the intangibles that have been listed above: meeting new players, being exposed to differing gaming styles, the ability to play anywhere/anytime, the ability not to play whenever you want/need to, belonging to a world-wide campaign, etc.
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Dear Conundrum,
I do understand that you may find PFS rather restrictive and you are wondering what is the point of being a part of our organization. Many of the posters here, have shared their many thoughts and although you reserve the right at any time to join or not join our community, I must ask the universal question:
Have you ever been to one our game days and played with us?
If you have, then it is truly your choice to join the game as you have taken part in our world. Most of us do belong to other home games as well as PFS. We play because we love the community, the variety, and diversity of players we may meet. We love, that we can go to almost any state and even a few countries and you can find Pathfinder players to gather a game for credit. There are few home games and gaming communities that allow us to have that luxury.
We love that we can come and go as we please. We do not have to gave every week, or even month, but we are free to play as long as we want and as much as we want. We love that no matter where we go, the rules are the same for everyone. Sure we may come up with new ideas and designs of our own making, but as long as we do not break the universal table rules, we're all free to make our own choices of character.
If you have not attended one of our game days, then I suggest you make a character and game a few sessions amongst our ranks before you pass judgement on us. There is nothing wrong with deciding after a few games that it's not for you. But give us the chance to let you make that decision. To judge without experience proves close-mindedness and inflexibility. Two traits in gaming and in the world, one wishes not to have. I do not say that you have these traits, but it sounds to all of us that you quite possibly could. And unlike many other gaming groups, we would love to give you the opportunity to show us that you do not.
The choice sir is yours in the end. We who play have made ours, and you will have to make yours. We just ask that you respect ours, as we will respect yours.
With that good sir, I, and everyone here bid you a good day.
Yours affectionately,
Lady Ophelia
Player, GM, and Society Coordinator
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I've never understood the aversion to low-point buy. My preference is 15, but to each his own.
I agree. I certainly don't mind 20 pt. builds when I'm playing but as a DM I like 15. For one, it's what the game considers "Standard Fantasy" and all the CR's are built around it. As much as we all might like otherwise, there's only so much time to devote to gaming :)
If I let the characters start twice as powerful then I have to adjust everything just to maintain balance and a decent challenge. That's a lot of work for what, to me, seems like a zero-sum benefit.
The amount of time I have to spend on games I would like to spend actually playing the game, not doing extra twinking. But if I'm running with a DM who doesn't mind doing that them more power to him.