After the first few levels, when I started to have more than a few channels and spells, I went from being a combination spellcaster and back-up fighter (fun for me) to primarily a healer (not as much fun). It has actually been said that if the cleric (me) is active in the battle (not healing), things are either going really good or really bad. When I started playing a cleric, I specifically did not want to be the heal-bot and, even with the help of a very experienced player in building my cleric, that's what I feel I've become. If I get a single offensive spell cast I feel exceptionally accomplished because most of the time I drop them to heal.
And for the record, I don't heal to top off my allies hit points. I heal to keep my allies from dying. They are either nearing single digits or they are already unconscious.
I have considered taking the quick channel feat so that I can heal AND cast in the same round. This would make me feel less like a heal-bot (good for me), but I forsee a problem with my allies who have grown accustomed to me healing instead of bestowing curses and holy smiting (bad for me as I run out of healing faster with quick channel and not dropping spells to heal).
Should I warn my allies that I'm going to potentially have less heals (quick channel & not dropping spells) available for them?
OR
Is there a tactic of how I could play my cleric which would fulfill the role of heal-bot AND spellcasting-cleric?
OR
Should I just accept my role as party heal-bot (and relish the few times I get to do something else)?
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Healing during combat is an inefficient use of a Cleric, but if you want to go that way you can rod of quicken spells is your friend.
But honestly if you partly are throwing themselves into danger and taking a heap of damage they're being careless and if they expect you to cover their poor tactics that a precedent your allowing to be set.
So play the way you want to play, if player start dying they might rethink their actions in combat. besides dying is not dead let them bleed out for a few rounds , heal them at the end of combat ;)
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Whether or not you need to heal folks is entirely due to either Their tactics or the DM's style of how he handles critters.
If your folks aren't using effective tactics because they have a healbot to fix it, then you are never going to get things done.
However, some DM's play their foes extremely intelligently (or at least as intelligent as the foe is) and as such your group might just need someone to heal. Myself, I'm going into an AP soon where we've been warned that the DM does just that. He plays smart folks smart. As such, I'm rolling up a healbot.
Now- does this mean it has to be you? no. But because of one issue or the other- it sounds like your group needs one.
My advice?
1) figure out which end of the stick has the problem.
If its the other players, talk to them about it. See if they can't fix it.
Don't stand in fireball formation. Try to avoid AoO's. Use cover, etc.
If its the DM. You can talk to the DM, but I wouldnt' expect the DM to change. The DM may think that there has to be some challenge and that if folks aren't gettin hit n'hurt then there is no challenge. There's a certain logic to that- though there are other ways to challenge the group than to beat them down continually.
Is there a real solution? Not really.
"warning the group" that yuo arent' healing as much is really just telling them "hey guys we're gonna TPK" if the issue is actually the DM.
Of course- that being the last sentence you say as part of a "The problem is your tactics" might just end up being enough to make them pay attention.
If you think you can accept the healbot role and have fun with it- then I say embrace it. I find it a fun role, myself, but then I'm an oddball :)
-S
If its the DM and you stop healing then he's going to start killing players if he doesn't change his tactics, he's there to challenge not outright kill groups, so if you change he has to change by default. If he's the kind of DM that is out to kill players better you find that out now ;)
pathfinder does not require a heal-bot to be in every group.
After the first few levels, when I started to have more than a few channels and spells, I went from being a combination spellcaster and back-up fighter (fun for me) to primarily a healer (not as much fun). It has actually been said that if the cleric (me) is active in the battle (not healing), things are either going really good or really bad. When I started playing a cleric, I specifically did not want to be the heal-bot and, even with the help of a very experienced player in building my cleric, that's what I feel I've become. If I get a single offensive spell cast I feel exceptionally accomplished because most of the time I drop them to heal.
And for the record, I don't heal to top off my allies hit points. I heal to keep my allies from dying. They are either nearing single digits or they are already unconscious.
I have considered taking the quick channel feat so that I can heal AND cast in the same round. This would make me feel less like a heal-bot (good for me), but I forsee a problem with my allies who have grown accustomed to me healing instead of bestowing curses and holy smiting (bad for me as I run out of healing faster with quick channel and not dropping spells to heal).
Should I warn my allies that I'm going to potentially have less heals (quick channel & not dropping spells) available for them?
OR
Is there a tactic of how I could play my cleric which would fulfill the role of heal-bot AND spellcasting-cleric?
OR
Should I just accept my role as party heal-bot (and relish the few times I get to do something else)?
It seems that your buddies are not using tactics well and/or the GM is making things overly difficult.
You are also enabling them to do so by taking channeling based feats. I wouldn't do it. What I would do is find out why everyone keeps getting beat up, and try to prevent that. Prevention is the best way to avoid healing.
What is everyone else playing, and how do they always get hurt?
List stats such as AC, potential damage output, and anything else if you have them.
Unfortunately I can't give you specific stats on anyone but myself. I'm a newby and do good just to keep up with my stats. I've discussed this a bit with the GM of the group. Apparently we are both tactically lacking (don't do things like full defense or ready actions enough and apparently I'm packing alot of "wrong" offensive spells) and equipment lacking (Paladin's AC is too low). As a newby though I didn't know this and don't really know how to tell everyone to fix it.
Our group composition: paladin, rogue, wizard, cleric(me)
Why did you play a priest if you have no desire to heal? Man up and heal or roll a new class.
-MD
PS: And enough of the "Healing during combat is an inefficient use of a Cleric" line that is repeated in every thread about out of combat healing. That might be true for your game but some GM's push players hard enough that they have no choice but to heal in combat.
@Muad'Dib
It isn't that I have no desire to heal. I have no desire to ONLY heal, which is what I feel like I'm doing. I would be satisfied with a 50% heal in combat/50% spellcast or fight. What's the point in having debilitating portent if I always end up dropping it to heal?
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A few pieces of advice:
1) Take sacred summons as your next feat. You can pop a summon on the first round and have something to do during each round other than heal. It makes it more fun.
2) Look at what you cast when. Buffing before fights often reduces the need for healing during fights. Defensive buffs can be better at mitigating damage than an equivalent heal would cure. Offensive buffs can end fight sooner limiting how much damage accrues.
In particular look for long term buffs (greater magic weapon, magic vestment, communal resist energy, shield of faith on big fights maybe).
3) Force the party to split wand costs and top off between fights so you need emergency healing less often.
4) Sometimes it is a party issue. Some classes have sucky defenses and suck up damage (e.g. most barbarians). There is not much you can do about this.
Other classes need to use their own resources to defend themselves (e.g. arcane casters). Have a talk with them to do this stuff. Not dying is everyone's job.
Everyone needs to devote resources to getting good defensive gear. Help people be cognizant of how they spend money.
5) Some people are BOTH fragile and useless. If the character being downed does not mater to how the fight turns out, do not spend *actions* healing them. Be gracious, don't let them die, but if they stabilize and are not dying, that is good enough. Heal them after a fight too, just to be nice.
This is usually always the same guy, who always makes a useless character in the name of pure roleplay or someone who has a grand plan for a character that will be effective someday, but not now.
Try buffing some before combat and using debuffs early in combat. You may find that with those in play, your allies aren't taking damage. It may free you up from some of that healing.
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You have X number of channels per day. That is your in-combat healing. You can use wands of CLW between combats to heal people up. Tell people this. You may want to post more info on domains and such so people can provide suggestions on combat tactics, but if you aren't having fun as the healbot, you need to force a change in the game.
Domains: Rune and Protection with subdomain of Defense
First question is how does you campaign handle hp when you level? Do you roll? Do you get max hp?
Next, what feats do you have, and what offensive spells do you want to cast? What level are you? Do you melee or ranged attack?
Do you generally cast cure spells, or channel energy?
My general advice is to summon, and use spells that do something every round, like spiritual weapon. This way you are still getting to do other things in rounds that you must heal. Use of spells like Aid and shield other can allow you to balance out the incoming damage to make channel more effective.
Definitely tell the party (perhaps in front of the GM) that you think it would be more effective if your character could spend less time healing. Make sure everyone has shields or bucklers and a deflection bonus and natural armor bonus, and uses good tactics including fighting defensively and the total defense action (+6 to AC with a few ranks in acrobatics!). Get the wizard casting some defensive spells such as mirror image, and displacement.
Why did you play a priest if you have no desire to heal? Man up and heal or roll a new class.
-MD
PS: And enough of the "Healing during combat is an inefficient use of a Cleric" line that is repeated in every thread about out of combat healing. That might be true for your game but some GM's push players hard enough that they have no choice but to heal in combat.
So what would a GM do if the group had no Cleric ? A GM who forces a healer to heal during combat is no different to a GM who specifically targets a players with their perfect counters (e.g. high touch AC monster vs touch attack character builds)
As for the OP I say go into a prestige class and leave healing behind
I suggest looking at spells that debuff or last for multiple rounds.
Examples:
Prayer: buffs allies and debuffs enemies, prevents alittle bit of damage because of it.
Spiritual Weapon:round based duration, cast it in round one and even if you have to start healing, you still can make attack rolls.
Shield Other: splits damage with target who gets hurt a lot and yourself, buys you extra time and effectively doubles the effect of channeling (unless you have someone pounding on you as well)
Summon Monster(1-9), Summon Ally, etc. Again, duration based spells you can get use out of as offense while healing when needed as well.
Not every playstyle will like or use those spells, but they are just examples.
Feat wise, for healing i suggest only Selective Channeling and Metamagic:Reach Spell, spend the rest on other things.
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Disregard Sacred Summons. It does not do what a lot of people think it does, well not until later levels.
The creature needs to have the exact Alignment SUBTYPES as your Clerics Auras, and the Celestial and Fiendish creatures on the Summon Monster list do not add subtypes, so are not affected. Depending on your alignment, there are 1 to 5ish creatures on the entire 1-9 lists. If you are NG, your first monster this Feat will actually work on is the Astral Deva on Summon Monster 9.
Great advice from everyone. Our group consists of 2 newbies (me and another) and 2 more experienced gamers. I'm not quite sure how the more experienced gamers will react to me, newby, giving them some of the advice which has been offered here.
According to our GM, we often get hammered our first round because we have a general lack of perception in the group (except for rogue). Combine the lack of perception with the lack of tactics (full defense, readied actions, etc) and lack of AC for the paladin "meat shield" and that probably goes a long way to explaining why I start healing upfront.
Hit points at leveling: we roll and the GM rolls and we get the option to take our roll or his roll (if we roll a 2, the odds are good that GM's is higher)
EDIT: GM's roll is secret unless and until we decide to take it
I generally channel when more than one ally is significantly down, and I do an individual heal (either with rod of reach or familiar) if only one ally is significantly down. Also have rod of extend and a "string of pearls" for barkskin all around.
Offensive spells (not party buffing) that I currently pack:
Chain of perdition
bestow curse
searing light
holy smite
debilitating portent
crusader's edge (for paladin; our campaign has been one full of evil outsiders)
major curse
I pack buffs and defense (Bear's endurance, shield, shield of faith) and things like shield other. I currently use shield other on my familiar (against the advice of my allies who think I should drop it all together). I used to use shield other on one of my allies, but that tended to get me almost killed.
My build:
Level: 9 (recently leveled)
HP: 68
AC: 21 (+2 breastplate, mithral buckler)
+1 long spear
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 12 (includes belt constitution +2)
INT: 14 (includes headband of Int +2fly for familiar)
WIS: 21 (includes headband of Wis +4)
CHA: 20 (includes headband of Cha +2)
Domains:
Rune
Protection with subdomain of Defense
Note about feats:
Until recently I had improved channel and NOT quick channel as a feat. GM has allowed me to retool my feats. I have not, as yet, used the quick channel feat in a gaming session.
Feats:
1) selective channel
1) skill focus: knowledge arcana
1) scribe scroll
3) eldrich heritage
5) quick channel
7) craft wondrous item
9) improved familiar
Here is a feat that lets you do some minor healing when casing a flame descriptor spell. Use it early and top off players while damaging foes. You might even be able to use it with you Blast Rune power from the rune domain (with GM's approval).
Glorious Heat
When you cast divine fire spells, their heat empowers nearby allies.
Prerequisites: ability to cast divine spells, caster level 5th.
Benefit: When you cast a divine spell with the fire descriptor, choose a single ally within 30 feet that you can see. That ally heals half your level in hit points, and gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls until the end of its next turn.
Unofficially Corrected Text: That ally heals a number of hit points equal to the level of the spell cast and gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls until the end of its next turn.
It sounds like your GM likes to keep the group on its toes, that's awesome and can make for some fun sessions. If none of the players choose to play a healing class of any type then the GM would have to radically change his game style to accommodate the lack of combat healing. This might make the battle a bit less dramatic and ruin some of the overall enjoyment. So think about what you are asking.
Pull him/her aside and let them know you would like to do a bit more offense. The GM might be able to throw in a healing wand or two for the other players. Or maybe he can tone down the occasional encounter so you can get in some offense.
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It looks like you're just now getting an improved familiar, right? What kind are you planning to get? I could see a familiar with the right abilities being a pretty solid combat healer.
I commend your use of a Long Spear! By keeping yourself out of melee range with enemies, you free yourself to cast spells.
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Here's what I suggest:
- Get a mount. When you move on a mount it doesn't take up your move action. This will be extremely useful when you want to use your move action to channel.
- Choose a familiar that can heal. That probably means hands, a high Use Magic Device skill, and a wand.
- Memorize Breath of Life. It's a great spell that lets you heal party members the round after they drop rather than when they're merely in danger of dropping.
- Make sure your Paladin is doing his fair share. He should be using swift actions to Lay On Hands himself whenever possible and memorizing Hero's Defiance and Paladin's Sacrifice.
- Make sure your Rogue isn't being a hit point sponge. Rogues are fragile, and need to have a care for their own defenses. He'll probably need more healing than anyone else in the group, but if he's using up 3/5 of your healing, he needs to be a little more cautious.
I agree with Blueluck - get an improved familiar with opposable thumbs and a voice, and give it some ranks in Use Magic Device (inherently or via its ability to share your ranks). It can then use wands (DC 20) in combat to stabilize / heal party members or cast debilitating spells that aren't heavily DC-dependent (e.g. web).
Your offensive options are pretty good. I'm not a huge fan of searing light (only single-target damage) or curses (save negates, only one target), but have seen both used to decent effect, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If available, try to focus on debilitating (penalties are more combat-effective than hp damage, since you have a rogue and paladin) spells that affect multiple targets (higher chance for at least one opponent to botch the save). This is pretty standard optimization advice, of course, so apologies if you've heard it before. Admittedly, the cleric list isn't the best for these types, and if you're having to drop them for cures anyway, the entire issue is transparent.
I haven't heard you talking about the wizard much, though. I'd have a talk with that player - he has a fantastic spell list for disabling the enemies' ability to hurt your party through debuffs, battlefield control, and summoning. A party effectively buffed by a cleric and effectively supported by an arcanist should take very little damage. My guess is a) the wizard spends too much time taking dirt naps; b) the wizard spends too much time blasting; or c) the DM's challenges are way out of line for a party with two new players. Two of these three are easily fixable.
PS: Full defense and readying actions are terrible for your action economy. They both have their place, but shouldn't be standard MO for a successful adventuring party. I think your DM is leading you down a false path, here.
If you're going to get Improved Familiar, I recommend a Cassisian Angel. Great Familiar, can assume humanoid shape to cast wands, always detects evil and flies at 60 ft with perfect maneuverability. Plus, I enjoy it's breath weapon.
It's not a combat familiar by any stretch of the imagination, but it'd be great for moving around buffing/healing the party.
(Paladin's AC is too low).
This guy knows he can heal too, right? "Healer, heal thyself." Lay on Hands is actually pretty wonderful in PF. At minimum he should share in-combat healing duties with you.
Also if he's Sir DiesAlot because of low AC, he could use ranged weapons.
My improved familiar is the inevitable arbiter. It is a relatively hardy familiar with regeneration 2/chaos. My next personal upgrade will be to add Int +2 use magic device (recently got it as a class skill). This way familiar can use wands (to heal, buff, even fireball), and I can get a wand of enlarge to it so that it threatens from 5 feet away.
The rogue used to be "Sir DiesALot" but has since begun to stay behind the paladin (greatsword build). The problem has been lately that the paladin is surprised. Gets charged and shredded before getting an action, so being on full-defense would mitigate that a bit by raising AC. The advice/suggestion to be on full defense was meant for the no-perception paladin, and the readied actions before combat begins for the rest of us. The paladin does Lay On Hands, pack Hero's Defiance & Paladin's Sacrifice as well as channel in a pinch. The wizard has primarily been the buffer of the party, but maybe that will change since I've been able to use some of my lower level spell slots to buff rather than heal.
We, as a party, get hammered up front and have to play catch up. Getting the paladin on total defense and each of us having some readied action would at least slow the shredding. With the hope of getting away from my first action be to heal, I'm looking at spells to slow things down like Obscuring Mist and Bestow Curse.
Any suggestions as to cleric and wizard spells which would slow things down upfront would be helpful. I could suggest them to the wizard.
Well, Create Pit and Acid Pit can solve a lot of your melee problems as they force the victim to make a reflex save or be out of the fight for a number of rounds. The Guide to the Guides thread has a load of Guides to build/play effective characters. Have the Wizard read Treantmonk's Guide to Being a God. It's a guide for Wizards that is very popular.
Unfortunately I can't give you specific stats on anyone but myself. I'm a newby and do good just to keep up with my stats. I've discussed this a bit with the GM of the group. Apparently we are both tactically lacking (don't do things like full defense or ready actions enough and apparently I'm packing alot of "wrong" offensive spells) and equipment lacking (Paladin's AC is too low). As a newby though I didn't know this and don't really know how to tell everyone to fix it.
Our group composition: paladin, rogue, wizard, cleric(me)
Playing the "healer" can be incredibly empowering. You get to boss people around and set standards. Here is how to keep everybody happy (including you) (they might not be happy for a short time but tell them to suck it up, you're a player not an NPC):
Step 1) Tell the paladin to heal himself. It's a swift action. Level 9 means he has MORE than enough d6 and uses of it. Use it every round.
Step 2) Set defensive standards. Tell the party they need a minimum of 25 AC (for level 9). This should be incredibly easy for all but the wizard. Paladin wears Full Plate +2 (standard for this level) which already brings him to 21. Rogue should have minimum 20 dex, and +2 armor (increase dex/decrease armor) for base 20 AC. Wizard should have 14 dex, and mage armor (at the least). 16 AC, but they shouldn't be near the confrontation. Rings of Protection, and Amulets of Natural armor are your friend. 4000g nets you one of each, for +2 total. Make sure they also have a minimum Cloak of Protection +1. Haste should also be present nearly every battle for the extra +1.
*Side note: you may want to set aside some level 3 slots for Magic Vestment (+2 at this level) for whoever is in melee, until they can get their armor upgraded.
Step 3) Manage consumables. Who in your party handles loot? Make sure that each person is well-equipped with potions. If, in the middle of combat, things look grim and you have something more important to do than heal a comrade, they can swig a potion.
Step 4) Learn defensive tactics. Fighting defensively is not a fantastic idea. Readied actions, depends on the situation. Does your Wizard know any controlling spells? Grease? Glitterdust? Obscuring Mist? Well-placed spells can mitigate more damage than you could ever hope to heal. Avoid being flanked. Don't purposefully provoke an AoO. If you're low on HP, step back and drink a potion.
Step 5) Learn the *right* times to heal. If your whole party is low on HP, save action economy and just give them a full Channel. Paladin low? See step 1. Rogue is low? Swig a potion. Wizard is low? That's likely his own fault (he has more defensive abilities than the rest of you combined. IE mirror image, displacement, dimension door...)
Step 6) Have fun :)
Unfortunately, readying an action is only valid in combat (i.e. can't walk around doing it until combat starts in order to get the jump) - doing otherwise defeats the initiative roll. I don't have a link on hand right now, but I've seen this clarified many times in FAQ.
Not sure on the fighting defensively bit, but considering it's a dodge bonus, you won't get it until you get to act in combat anyway - so short of uncanny dodge, it's moot.
Encourage folks who eat lots of alpha strikes early in combat to beef up their flat-footed ACs and initiative scores. No amount of healing (short of actual heal) can undo guys getting shredded in round 1.
Alternatively, have the whole party invest in rings of invisibility as soon as they can afford them, then just walk around cloaked all the time... though that's less reliable around a bunch of outsiders.
If you have Craft Wondrous Item, is the wizard sporting any item creation from his bonus feats every 5th level? Lots of folks don't like trading feats for cash, but Wondrous Item and Arms & Armor can make a big difference if you knock down the cost for the whole party.
Rory, you cannot drop a heavy shield, cast shield, and draw a great sword in a single round. Dropping a shield is a move action, casting Shield is a standard action, drawing a sword is another move action. Of course, with Quickdraw or TWF you can do that.
However, if the paladin was holding the Great Sword in one hand (unusable) then the paladin can drop the shield (move action), cast the spell (standard action), and switch to a 2handed grip (free action).
Also, there is the Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism ioun stone for 2000gp (Seekers of Secrets). It holds a single spell level as per the Ring of Spell Storing.
It sounds like the OPs group is getting hammered in the early rounds. In that situation a person can be playing catch up for quite awhile. Example: at level 9 a paladin can heal only an average of 14hp per round. This is not much healing if the paladin is taking alot of damage. At level 9 the damage per round (according to bestiary table 1-1) should be about 40hps for an even CR battle. With a single big crit that can take a level 9 character out in one blow. A level 9 paladin should have about 81hps on average. With the OPs GM offering HP rerolls that goes up to about 95hps on average. I can easily see a surprised paladin who then loses initative going negative before a single action.
To slow down combat try using: Obscuring Mist, Wall of Stone, Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness (blindness portion) will all slow down incoming damage. The easiest of all of these is Obscuring Mist. Consider the Goz Mask (Inner Sea World Guide) to maintain sight while in Obscuring Mist. However, even without the Mask you can still buff your allies if you are next to them.
If the problem is the start of combat try to have readied actions with the paladin and rogue doing Total Defense until they are ready to fight. If surprise is the problem an Obscuring Mist will nearly halt combat for a round or two to let people get ready. Dismiss it when ready to fight.
- Gauss
Morbios, according to the FAQ on WBL you cannot knock down the cost for a whole party. A crafter can only benefit him/herself cash-wise.
Regarding readied actions: I would say it depends on the situation. If a potential enemy is visible then yes, I would say that readied actions are available. It depends on how the GM runs his/her table.
Example: Two guys approaching each other. Guy A readies an action if Guy B does something.
- Gauss
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The paladin should not get charged and shredded in one round just because his perception is bad (limited to a single attack with more than a 5' move). Now if he gets charged in a surprise round and shredded in the first round because his perception and inititative are poor, I would look at a dip into Oracle - Battle or Time for the revelation which allows two rolls for initiative.
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Rory, you cannot drop a heavy shield, cast shield, and draw a great sword in a single round. Dropping a shield is a move action, casting Shield is a standard action, drawing a sword is another move action. Of course, with Quickdraw or TWF you can do that.
If BaB is +1, they could Drop Heavy Shield (Move Action), Cast Shielld (Standard Action), 5ft Step (Free Action), and draw a weapon (Free Action) as part of the movement.
Sieylianna: If the paladin has about 90hp (at level 9 that is pretty good) and takes 45hps of damage from a CR+1 enemy per round (bestiary Table 1-1) then he is only two rounds away from going down. A surprise round + a standard round (as I stated earlier) and that paladin is staggered. A bit of bad luck in the rolls and he is in the negatives.
Two rolls for intiative only help so much. Assuming the paladin has a +1dex then the average roll will be 11.5. With a reroll it becomes an average of 16.4875. Many bad guys will be averaging that or more since Improved Initative is rather popular for bad guys. (Personally, I don't like Improved Initative always being handed to the bad guys but..oh well.)
- Gauss
Beckett, you are incorrect. The 5foot step is not movement as drawing a weapon is defined.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
A 5 foot step is not a regular move.
- Gauss
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Now if he gets charged in a surprise round and shredded in the first round because his perception and inititative are poor, I would look at a dip into Oracle - Battle or Time for the revelation which allows two rolls for initiative.
Just seems so weird to speak about RPG's in terms of level dipping just for the sake of shoring up a weakness. I get that Pathfinder and 3.5 is all about stats and builds but when you put it that way it just makes the hairs on the back of my old school RPG neck stand up strait.
-MD
Unfortunately I can't give you specific stats on anyone but myself. I'm a newby and do good just to keep up with my stats. I've discussed this a bit with the GM of the group. Apparently we are both tactically lacking (don't do things like full defense or ready actions enough and apparently I'm packing alot of "wrong" offensive spells) and equipment lacking (Paladin's AC is too low). As a newby though I didn't know this and don't really know how to tell everyone to fix it.
Our group composition: paladin, rogue, wizard, cleric(me)
Readying actions are generally not a good idea, and neither is fighting defensively.
The paladin won't have a really good AC unless he has a shield, but if he has a two handed weapon he should be killing things quickly so it should balance out.
That setup should work well together. Looking at the classes all the bases are covered.
build and perception
1. You should always put ranks into perception. That goes for everyone.
2. What spells does the wizard open up with?
Your build is ok, not great, but not bad either.
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Beckett, you are incorrect. The 5foot step is not movement as drawing a weapon is defined.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.A 5 foot step is not a regular move.
- Gauss
Interesting, my book just says with a movement. Same under Quick Draw, too.
Checked that page and it does say with a regular Movement, so you are right. Whatever I was looking at did not specify.
Sieylianna: If the paladin has about 90hp (at level 9 that is pretty good) and takes 45hps of damage from a CR+1 enemy per round (bestiary Table 1-1) then he is only two rounds away from going down. A surprise round + a standard round (as I stated earlier) and that paladin is staggered. A bit of bad luck in the rolls and he is in the negatives.
Two rolls for intiative only help so much. Assuming the paladin has a +1dex then the average roll will be 11.5. With a reroll it becomes an average of 16.4875. Many bad guys will be averaging that or more since Improved Initative is rather popular for bad guys. (Personally, I don't like Improved Initative always being handed to the bad guys but..oh well.)
- Gauss
The enemy should not be doing 2 full rounds worth of damage even with the surprise round.
The Surprise Round
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
If the enemy is melee, a surprise round + 1 round is just a 1 full-attack action (move in surprise, full attack in standards). If the enemy is ranged physical, its 1 full attack and 1 regular attack. If its a caster, well, I hope saves arn't an issue for the Paladin.
But barring a crit, the paladin should really not be down after 1 round of combat.
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Just seems so weird to speak about RPG's in terms of level dipping just for the sake of shoring up a weakness. I get that Pathfinder and 3.5 is all about stats and builds but when you put it that way it just makes the hairs on the back of my old school RPG neck stand up strait.
I've seen a rogue take a single level or barbarian for the Fort save and fast movement, he hardly ever raged. I saw another rogue take a level of wizard for the Will save. I will point out that those were both PFS characters, so a single dip level doesn't make much difference.
Healing during combat is an inefficient use of a Cleric, but if you want to go that way you can rod of quicken spells is your friend.
But honestly if you partly are throwing themselves into danger and taking a heap of damage they're being careless and if they expect you to cover their poor tactics that a precedent your allowing to be set.
So play the way you want to play, if player start dying they might rethink their actions in combat. besides dying is not dead let them bleed out for a few rounds , heal them at the end of combat ;)
The first part is just plain wrong. Sure, topping off during combat is a poor option, and unless one of the party is one round away from dropping, then party buffing is a better idea.
The rest is bad advice. You are part of a Band of Brothers- letting one of them die so as you can do damage is poor teamwork.
Step 1) Tell the paladin to heal himself. It's a swift action. Level 9 means he has MORE than enough d6 and uses of it. Use it every round.
Step 2) Set defensive standards.
Step 3) Manage consumables. Who in your party handles loot? Make sure that each person is well-equipped with potions. If, in the middle of combat, things look grim and you have something more important to do than heal a comrade, they can swig a potion.
Step 4) Learn defensive tactics.
Step 5) Learn the *right* times to heal. If your whole party is low on HP, save action economy and just give them a full Channel. Paladin low? See step 1. Rogue is low? Swig a potion. Wizard is low? That's likely his own fault (he has more defensive abilities than the rest of you combined. IE mirror image, displacement, dimension door...)
Step 6) Have fun :)
1. Right, the pally can certainly heal himself, and if he takes the Hospitaler archetype, he can do a lot of party healing too.
2. More or less good advice.
3. Potions are a waste of loot. Sure, everyone needs one in case the healer drops, but otherwise, no. It's also poor action economy, they have to burn a full round action and party loot to heal just a smidgen.
4. Good advice.
5. Yes- esp the bit about Channeling. Take a Channeling feat or two and you'll find it better than spells.
6. Absolutely!
Naedre: Creatures that have a nasty first strike can do that strike on the surprise round (using a partial charge). Then on the next round round follow it up with a full attack.
- Gauss
Overly difficult=not fun. It can also mean people are constantly dying which often defaults to "not fun".
I thought the OP was asking for advice, not complaining.