I decided to make this thread to continue a certain discussion outside of the thread for the product in general, and to make a place for similar questions. To get everyone up to speed...

The new oracle curses are interesting to say the least, and not what I had been expecting after reading Blood of Fiends.

The Blackened curse gives you burnt hands and upper arms, causing you to get a hefty penalty to 'weapon' attack rolls. This also adds fire spells to your spells known over time. I have to wonder... does this penalty apply to ray and touch attack spells? I guess it should since we're allowed to take 'Weapon Focus (ray)'. Anyway, interesting flavor, and I don't think the bonus spells that it grants overlap with those from the Flames mystery.

Wolfscarred Face curses you with a deformed and wolf-like face and a permanent chance of failing to cast spells which have verbal components (but you don't lose the spell). You get a bite attack and Magic Fang spells added to your list in return. My inner munchkin tells me that a Dual Cursed Wolfscarred/Deaf oracle is a workable combo since Deaf makes all your spells silent spells, effectively negating the former curse. Of course, you would still need to hide your face, and would also have to deal with the horrible roleplaying side effect of being deaf, lol. Anyway, I guess this curse would generally be somehow linked to the Agathions?

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Matrixryu wrote:

The Blackened curse gives you burnt hands and upper arms, causing you to get a hefty penalty to 'weapon' attack rolls. This also adds fire spells to your spells known over time. I have to wonder... does this penalty apply to ray and touch attack spells? I guess it should since we're allowed to take 'Weapon Focus (ray)'. Anyway, interesting flavor, and I don't think the bonus spells that it grants overlap with those from the Flames mystery.

I looked at Weapon Focus since you mentioned it, and I think you have it backwards.

Weapon Focus wrote:

Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.

So it specifically calls out unarmed strikes and rays as things that aren't weapons, but that you can take the feat for anyway -- and if they aren't weapons, then it stands to reason that melee touch attacks aren't either.

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Fredrik wrote:

So it specifically calls out unarmed strikes and rays as things that aren't weapons, but that you can take the feat for anyway -- and if they aren't weapons, then it stands to reason that melee touch attacks aren't either.

Ooo, good catch. So, basically if you have this curse you're going to be trying to use only spells and special abilities for attacking. Interesting....

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Fredrik wrote:

So it specifically calls out unarmed strikes and rays as things that aren't weapons, but that you can take the feat for anyway -- and if they aren't weapons, then it stands to reason that melee touch attacks aren't either.

While that is a reasonable reading, there is actually a FAQ on this. Quick Version: rays are generally treated as weapons for all purposes. So, the curse would in all likelihood apply to them (though I don't have the book, and couldn't say for certain).

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The book just says that you get a -4 penalty on all 'weapon' attack rolls.

Hmmm, so the end result of this is either A: you get the penalty to all attack rolls or B: you get the penalty on all weapon attack rolls AND rays?

The problem with A is that if this was the case there would have been no reason to call out 'weapon' attack rolls specifically. The problem with B is that there is no reason why you should get the penalty on rays but not get it on melee touch attacks.

Then, there is also the issue that if you follow the curse as written then you would also get a -4 penalty to bite attacks (if you have one).

I'm beginning to think that this is a case where the the intent really is that the penalty only applies when you try to wield actual physical weapons (or use natural attacks) with your burnt hands, and that we need to just ignore the rule technicalities/implications of what exactly counts as a weapon.

Edit: Also, I think I should mention one of the bonus spells that this curse grants is Scorching Ray. I think that they wouldn't give you a ray spell if the curse itself made hitting with it much more difficult, though there is a possibility they figured that the BAB of the oracle class made up for it.

The FAQ linked by Mort the Cleverly Named also counts weapon-like spells as weapons. So, the question is whether they intended to include rays (e.g. scorching ray) and weapon-like spells (e.g. flame blade) in the penalty, or just manufactured weapons.

The FAQ linked by Mort the Cleverly Named also counts weapon-like spells as weapons. So, the question is whether they intended to include rays (e.g. scorching ray) and weapon-like spells (e.g. flame blade) in the penalty, or just manufactured weapons.

The Blackened oracle curse is meant to only impose a penalty on attack rolls with manufactured weapons. Thus, rays, weapon-like spells, and natural weapons are not affected by this curse.

Well, that was fast! Thanks!! :)

Thanks for the clarification! :D

Sunlit Strike: Requires the ability to cast / prepare sunlight, which I don't think exists. I'm not sure what to replace it with.

Also, the DC is listed as 10 + Character Level + Strength Mod. That should probably be 10 + 1/2 character level + strength mod.

Sunlit Strike: Requires the ability to cast / prepare sunlight, which I don't think exists. I'm not sure what to replace it with.

Also, the DC is listed as 10 + Character Level + Strength Mod. That should probably be 10 + 1/2 character level + strength mod.

I'm guessing it means the daylight ability which standard aasimar get.

No...other feats list daylight spell-like ability out, but not this one.

Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, able to prepare or cast sunlight.

Pg. 4, Non-Human Aasimars
3rd Paragraph opens with the following statement:
Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as human aasimars--the difference is purely cosmetic.

Shouldn't the Small sized aasimar have a base speed of 20ft like other Small creatures? Then that puts the 'purely cosmetic' idea up for disagreement in my book. If someone at my table would want to play a halfling or gnome aasimar, I'd have them change both the size AND speed. Thoughts? I feel like this was left out, or the writers should have explained that the celestial gift of speed was given to the Small creature.

No...other feats list daylight spell-like ability out, but not this one.

Quote:

Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, able to prepare or cast sunlight.

Maybe a spell which was cut?

Pg. 4, Non-Human Aasimars

3rd Paragraph opens with the following statement:
Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as human aasimars--the difference is purely cosmetic.

Shouldn't the Small sized aasimar have a base speed of 20ft like other Small creatures? Then that puts the 'purely cosmetic' idea up for disagreement in my book. If someone at my table would want to play a halfling or gnome aasimar, I'd have them change both the size AND speed. Thoughts? I feel like this was left out, or the writers should have explained that the celestial gift of speed was given to the Small creature.

The Bottom Line

What they're saying is that a gnome- or halfling-descended aasimar is a Small aasimar, not a celestial-touched gnome or halfling. Also, Small and slow do not go hand-in-hand in the rules. Finally, being Small inherently changes stats -- the difference is only "purely cosmetic" aside from that.

The Explanation

In the gnome and halfling entries on pgs. 23 & 26 of the CRB, there are separate entries for Small and Slow Speed. Sure enough, the race builder in the ARG lists Slow Speed separately as being worth -1 RP (Small is worth 0 RP). Also, I'm going to call out the word "otherwise" and the capitalization of Small as particularly important -- because being Small alters statistics in several significant ways.

Everything listed under the Gnomes' and Halflings' "Small" racial trait is listed elsewhere in the CRB as universal to that size. The +1 size bonus to AC and attack rolls? Pg. 179. The -1 penalty to CMB and CMD? Pgs. 198-199. The +4 to Stealth? Pg. 106. I am unaware of any rule that states that smaller creatures must have slower speeds, and in fact the Small quickling has a base speed of 120 ft. (Bestiary 2); apparently, gnomes and halflings just happen to coincidentally be both Small and slow.

My conclusion is that gnome and halfling aasimars are statistically different from their Medium peers. They have the usual modifications to their stats that any other Small creature would have -- but *otherwise* the same. So, they have a 30' base speed, on account of that falling under the "otherwise".

Thank you for raising the question -- it was interesting, trying to figure it out -- and I hope you like my answer. :)

What spell does a Martyred Bloodline Sorcerer get at 11th level? It's missing from the Bonus Spells section.

What spell does a Martyred Bloodline Sorcerer get at 11th level? It's missing from the Bonus Spells section.

FWIW, I looked through the CRB, APG, UM, and UC, and it's hard to find good candidates. Maybe serenity as a 5th-level spell, like a cleric? Kind of like how an oracle of life gets the bonus spell neutralize poison as a druid's 3rd-level version, just because it's so fitting.

Pg. 14 - typo

Aasimars who want to blend in wears clothes like those around them, regardless of how unattractive the styles might seem.

Should be "wear", not "wears".

Not sure if this is an error...
page 18

2 You can use cure minor wounds 3/day as a spell-like ability.

Cure Minor Wounds no longer exists... does this mean Cure Light Wounds?

Not sure if this is an error...

page 18

Quote:

2 You can use cure minor wounds 3/day as a spell-like ability.

Cure Minor Wounds no longer exists... does this mean Cure Light Wounds?

Probably stabilize which is the spell that replaced Cure Minor Wounds.

AerynTahlro wrote:

Not sure if this is an error...

page 18

Quote:

2 You can use cure minor wounds 3/day as a spell-like ability.

Cure Minor Wounds no longer exists... does this mean Cure Light Wounds?

Probably stabilize which is the spell that replaced Cure Minor Wounds.

Someone at Paizo needs to put their 3.5 books away and get that spiffy Pathfinder Core Rulebook, I hear it's on the 5th printing...

Seriously? Moving an errata thread from Paizo Products to the forum for the line? Whatever, I'll roll with it...

Pg. 17 - Class Roles

Witches are missing, as MythicFox pointed out in the product discussion thread.

Maybe serenity as a 5th-level spell, like a cleric?

But if you give them Serenity, they will be eaten by a giant Fox-network before 14th level.

Sunlit Strike: Requires the ability to cast / prepare sunlight, which I don't think exists. I'm not sure what to replace it with.

Also, the DC is listed as 10 + Character Level + Strength Mod. That should probably be 10 + 1/2 character level + strength mod.

This was a typo that slipped through editing. The prerequisites line should look like this: "Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, daylight spell-like ability."

And yes, the DC should be 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Strength modifier.

AerynTahlro wrote:

Not sure if this is an error...

page 18

Quote:

2 You can use cure minor wounds 3/day as a spell-like ability.

Cure Minor Wounds no longer exists... does this mean Cure Light Wounds?

Probably stabilize which is the spell that replaced Cure Minor Wounds.

This is correct.

Radiarch Eklesya wrote:

Pg. 4, Non-Human Aasimars

3rd Paragraph opens with the following statement:
Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as human aasimars--the difference is purely cosmetic.

Shouldn't the Small sized aasimar have a base speed of 20ft like other Small creatures? Then that puts the 'purely cosmetic' idea up for disagreement in my book. If someone at my table would want to play a halfling or gnome aasimar, I'd have them change both the size AND speed. Thoughts? I feel like this was left out, or the writers should have explained that the celestial gift of speed was given to the Small creature.

Lots of stuff.

Basically, this. Fredrik's got it right. A gnome or halfling aasimar would gain the Small size, as well as all the bonuses and penalties that go along with that (as detailed in the "Small" racial trait for halflings and gnomes). Beyond this, though, the aasimar would gain all the standard aasimar racial traits--nothing more, nothing less. A Small aasimar's speed is unchanged.

Thanks Patrick! I've updated the page on d20pfsrd to reflect the sunlit strike feat. (Which by the way, is awesome.)

And I've updated the aasimar ability to be stabilize instead of cure minor wounds.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "able to prepare or cast" language for Sunlit Strike was intended and will be retained, even though the spell name was wrong.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "able to prepare or cast" language for Sunlit Strike was intended and will be retained, even though the spell name was wrong.

Oops! Yep—disregard the language from my previous post; the prerequisites line should look like this: "Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, able to prepare or cast daylight."

The Bottom Line

What they're saying is that a gnome...

The Explanation

In the gnome and halfling entries on pgs...

I just remembered to return to this thread. Thanks for pulling that information. That's very enlightening. Shame perception can get the better of us. Now to consider new Small races.

:: grabs and begins to dream ::