Switching up the BBEG for CC

[cibet44]

Spoilers ahead…

I've been trying to come up with a way to make the end of CC a bit more to my liking and now it is time for me to pull the trigger since my group is in Renchurch, part 6 of the AP. I’m not thrilled with Advion as the climactic encounter but I have been impressed with Marrowgarth, so I’m thinking of switching the two. I’m planning on making Marrowgarth the actual mastermind behind the entire plan and Adivion his skilled and willing accomplice. I’ve seeded Adivions name throughout the AP so the PCs know of him and know what the overall WW plan is, but I think it would be easy enough to have Marrowgarth be the actual Carrion Crown Elixir cult leader.

It would be hard for something like Marrowgarth to do all the research and experimentation required to create the Carrion Crown elixir and probably impossible for him to visit any humanoid settlements in the process. So it seems natural that he would need a skilled and willing accomplice to complete the task. Adivion makes sense to me in this regard. I figure the PCs can meet the (still evil) non-forsaken lich version of Adivion somewhere along the way to (or at) Gallowspire, but ultimately they will have their climactic battle with Marrowgarth at the top of the spire.

Just wondering if anyone else has done this, or something like it, to replace Adivion as the mastermind but still have him part of the overall plan.

[magnuskn]

A bit late for me to change that around and I have been building up AA as someone the group knows for the whole campaign now. Subbing in Marrowgarth would be just the same as having kept Adivion as he was in the original books... some dude at the end who goes "And who the hell are you people?" when the party confronts him.

[Helaman]

cibet44 wrote:

Spoilers ahead…

Is there a need? From a narrative perspective does it really matter if the human was the puppet or the puppeteer... at the end of the module its already down to that one combat and then its adventure over.

How will the players know? The human saying 'Yes Master'? Will they care?

If its cool for you then do it but I don't think the change adds much at all. Making Kendra the big bad? Now thats a significant change and one that needs some re-writing and tweaking but one that could be meaningful.

[cibet44]

Helaman wrote:

cibet44 wrote:

Spoilers ahead…

Is there a need? From a narrative perspective does it really matter if the human was the puppet or the puppeteer... at the end of the module its already down to that one combat and then its adventure over.

How will the players know? The human saying 'Yes Master'? Will they care?

If its cool for you then do it but I don't think the change adds much at all. Making Kendra the big bad? Now thats a significant change and one that needs some re-writing and tweaking but one that could be meaningful.

Well I guess for my group the need is the preference of my players in what they prefer in a climactic battle. Adivion does not quite meet their expectation for an end game and is very similar to the BBEG of the other 2 APs I have already run them through (RotRL, and CotCT). I’m pretty sure Marrowgarth would fit the bill nicely though with Adivion an encounter along the way.

[Krome]

Adivon was a bit of a let down for me as well. He just didn't FEEL epic!

I am re-designing him from the ground up. Higher level (minimum CR 18... probably CR 20 since it is the last fight after all), more unique abilities, MUCH tougher HP and AC.

But also there is one thing to consider... the terrain of the fight. He may not seem that impressive at first, but when he blows the first PC off the top of the tower using Hydraulic Torrent, for example, and they fall 400 feet... avg of 140 hp... if they somehow manage to survive they have to find a way back up and the fight is likely over by then... yeah the PCs will wet themselves.

Also since it is the final battle, I am re-outfitting him. Maxed out equipment for everything. No punches pulled... sure the PCs get to loot all this super amazing uber expensive gear... but the game is over so I don't care if they get ridiculous stuff out of it.

The plan for me i to use the tiny platform (what is it 40 feet square?) to the best advantage I can. restrict their movement options with Black Tentacles or similar spells as they make it to the top. Hit them with Force Punch, or Hydraulic Torrent, or River of WInd (which has a nice duration!) and force the PCs to struggle against being pushed off. These are all nasty against the arcane caster so start there... then work your way up against the guys with lower Fort saves or lower CMBs.

Of course I need to find a way so he is not pushed off either! Still working on that one.

[Brandon Hodge]

THAT is the encounter I designed, Krome! Adivion is all about taking out opponents before they clamber over the edge of Gallowspire, so let them have it. I think the final print copy mentions some of those tactics, but he certainly shouldn't sit idly by while PCs ascend. He should start the fight early, for sure.

Also, if he isn't feeling up to climax standards, seat his skinny butt on top of Marrowgarth like one of the other GM posters did. Even give him a nightwing mount. That should up the ferocity of the encounter a bit more toward the "holy crap" category! =-)

[Trinite]

If you like Marrowgarth's stats better and Adivion's relationship to the narrative better, just flip-flop their stats. Make Adivion a whatever-Marrowgarth-is and have at it.

[Lehmo]

Toss in the Night Harrows from the pathfinder Rivals Guide. They are whispering way and a good fight. I added them to the module as a group helping Adivion behind the scenes. Furthermore when the level 3 gunslinger died in Harrowstone the Night Harrowers added him to there troop as a lv 3 gunslinger/pale stranger (bestiary 3). But hey I am GM'ing for 8 players.