I'm a 5th level ranger (jungle theme, jungle as my first favored terrain) and I'm thinking about moving into Horizon Walker as a Prestige Class. But it sounds a little too good, and I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding anything.
• Upon taking my first Horizon Walker level, I'll gain a new favored terrain. This works as per the Ranger rules, so this means one of the two favored terrains moves to +4 and the other is +2, could be either the new or previous terrain. (This means I'd get a new favored terrain a couple levels early.)
• Upon taking my second Horizon Walker level, I'll gain a third favored terrain, meaning I'll have three total, at +2/+4/+6, whichever. That bonus goes to initiative, along with the skills mentioned in Ranger.
At that time I also gain a Terrain Mastery bonus that depends on one of the above chosen terrains. This bonus is always active. This means if I were to choose forest, for example, I'd gain a permanent +4 to my Stealth.
• Upon taking my third Horizon Walker level, I'll gain a Terrain Dominance bonus, which allows me to use my favored terrain bonus against all creatures from that terrain, as if they were all favored enemies. Thus, for example, if I chose forest, every single time I met a creature who was native to the forest in which we were adventuring, I'd gain +6 to attack and +6 to damage against that creature?
(rinse, repeat -- as the levels accrue, I gain mastery & dominance over more terrains)
Is this true? If so, I'm seriously thinking of nerfing my animal companion for this, as this PrC will come in REALLY HANDY in our Serpent's Skull AP, because I think we'll be in jungle/underground/water and maybe swamp during the rest of the whole thing (if the back copy on the adventures is any indication anyway)...
Yerp you've pretty much summed it up nicely.
You do only get 3 terrain dominance , but if you pick common terrains you can get some seriously good favoured enemy bonuses against most of what your fighting.
Of course there are some terrains that offer some really nice abilities like astral giving dimension door 3+WIS times per day, of course if your never fighting astral creatures its a tough choice.
You can grab Boon Companion to keep your animal companion on par for the first 4 levels of Horizon Walker
Seems like you have the long and short of it. And knowing what your character is the stealth bonus would be a huge boon. It's not a bad idea.
You've got it right. HW is the martial response to how overpowered spellcasters are. :)
For the most fun, get the boots from APG that increase a favored terrain by +2 and dip Rogue. Rogue in UC got a favored terrain equivalent talent, whichs adds to all others each time you take it (and you can keep taking it). As a rogue talent, this means you can select it as a feat via Extra Rogue Talent...
The fluff for HW is all about being great in all terrains, but in actuality, HW is much better off if the campaign sticks to the 1-3 he has terrain dominance in.
no you are wrong, it's better (as I understood it),
you will have +6 to a creature native to ANY forest.
If you choose city, and you encounter a city dweller in the mountains, you still get the bonus.
The problem with the prestige class is that it's too good if you almost excusivly encounter creatures from your dominance. (urban would be my pick)
And you're quite weak if you should venture onto other planes where you've got nothing.
Btw. to truly break that prestige class, go into with a rogue and take favorite terrain as rogue talent, and extra rogue talents as feats.
Enjoy +30 against any person born in urban environment byl lv 15.
@David, how do you come to that conclusion? I read it that you gain a +2 to every previously taken terrain.
"At 1st level, a horizon walker may select a favored terrain from the ranger favored terrains table. This works exactly like the ranger favored terrain ability. The horizon walker gains an additional favored terrain at 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th and 10th level, and he can increase the bonus from an existing favored terrain as described in the ranger ability. If the horizon walker has abilities from other classes that only work in a favored terrain (such as a ranger’s camouflage and hide in plain sight abilities), those abilities work in favored terrains selected as a horizon walker."
It seems to be like this :
Ranger 5 +2
Ranger 5 HW 1 +2/+2
Ranger 5 HW 2 +4/+2/+2
Ranger 5 HW 4 +6/+2/+2/+2 or +4/+4/+2/+2
Note that outsiders, constructs and other creatures do not often count as native to the terrain you actually are in, so while you might get the terrain bonuses you might be out off luck fighting creatures in that terrain.
Astral Planes has no interesting creatures to fight mostly, but it does offer a +1/+1 competence bonus on attack vs all outsiders and the dimension door ability. Favored enemy outsiders (evil) is usually a good choice to go along with that, another in construct or magical beast (for summons) possibly. Leaving you free to focus on terrains that you are likely to encounter.
Remco and David seem to be right, each time you gain a new favored terrain, you gain +2 in the new one and have to choose another (or the same) terrain in which you get an additional +2.
So +6 +2 +2 would be the case.
At 1st level, a horizon walker may select a favored terrain from the ranger favored terrains table. This works exactly like the ranger favored terrain ability. The horizon walker gains an additional favored terrain at 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th and 10th level, and he can increase the bonus from an existing favored terrain as described in the ranger ability. If the horizon walker has abilities from other classes that only work in a favored terrain (such as a ranger’s camouflage and hide in plain sight abilities), those abilities work in favored terrains selected as a horizon walker.
You guys are only focusing on part of those bolded sentences. These work exactly like the ranger ability and increase as described as the ranger ability. The only word that is wonky is 'an' which does seem to indicate you only apply the secondary increase to one, however that is in direct contrast to how the increase in the ranger ability works. I'm inclined to believe it's meant to work just like the ranger ability.
I think they refer to the fact that ability to increase is part of sentece refering to 2, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th and 10th level apications of this ability.
So this looks that:
1st level - select favored terrain
2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th - select another favored terrain, increase bonus from existing terrain
And not like that
1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th - select favored terrain, increase bonus from existing terrain
I think they refer to the fact that ability to increase is part of sentece refering to 2, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th and 10th level apications of this ability.
So this looks that:
1st level - select favored terrain
2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th - select another favored terrain, increase bonus from existing terrainAnd not like that
1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th - select favored terrain, increase bonus from existing terrain
correct, that is what I meant.
The HW is crazy good if you want to specialize on a single terrain/foe, too good really.
I'm particularly fond of Wands of Terrain Bond for such a character that dumps all their bonuses into one terrain. Expensive? Sure, but definitely worth it.
Also, the Warden Ranger archetype is good. A two or three level dip in Rogue early is really good for the rogue talent.
In his chosen terrain, (which if you have the wand is anywhere), it's possible to have a stealth score of near +100, Initiative modifiers that rival a Diviner's, Perception scores in the 80's and my particular favorite, survival scores in the 80's.
At 1st level, a horizon walker may select a favored terrain from the ranger favored terrains table. This works exactly like the ranger favored terrain ability. The horizon walker gains an additional favored terrain at 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th and 10th level, and he can increase the bonus from an existing favored terrain as described in the ranger ability. If the horizon walker has abilities from other classes that only work in a favored terrain (such as a ranger’s camouflage and hide in plain sight abilities), those abilities work in favored terrains selected as a horizon walker.You guys are only focusing on part of those bolded sentences. These work exactly like the ranger ability and increase as described as the ranger ability. The only word that is wonky is 'an' which does seem to indicate you only apply the secondary increase to one, however that is in direct contrast to how the increase in the ranger ability works. I'm inclined to believe it's meant to work just like the ranger ability.
"At 3rd level, a ranger may select a type of terrain from Table: Ranger Favored Terrains. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Perception, Stealth, and Survival skill checks when he is in this terrain. A ranger traveling through his favored terrain normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked (though he may leave a trail if he so chooses).
At 8th level and every five levels thereafter, the ranger may select an additional favored terrain. In addition, at each such interval, the skill bonus and initiative bonus in any one favored terrain (including the one just selected, if so desired), increases by +2.
If a specific terrain falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher."
It seems clear that neither the ranger or the HW increase all their formerly chosen favored terrains, just one.
The overpowered part is combining rogue with horizon walker for the rogue talent. Because as stated above, it says add +2 to all of your favored terrain bonuses. So by 20th lvl, you're at 15-18+ for the 3 terrains you have dominance in.
Horizon Walker alone is giving you 7 favored terrains, for a +14, plus the capstone for another +2. Plus the APG boots for another +2, plus at least a single +2 from prior ranger levels.
It's plenty good even w/o rogue, and IME trying to make a build, the feat-hungry nature of TWF and archery combat styles seriously limits how much you can actually take Extra Talent. Like, you might be able to take it 4-5 times over 20 levels unless you choose to skip feats anyone else making such a character would take.