Magic missile vs. ray of frost


Rules Questions


at level 1 both made the same damage. how I choose between them?


You don't have to make an attack roll with magic missile. Also, ray of frost is 1d3 of damage; magic missile is 1d4+1. Also, ray of frost is a 0-level spell, and magic missile is 1st-level.


Joana wrote:
You don't have to make an attack roll with magic missile.

So what is the benefit of ray of frost?

Dark Archive

artificer wrote:
Joana wrote:
You don't have to make an attack roll with magic missile.
So what is the benefit of ray of frost?

Its 0 level and free to cast over and over and over.

Grand Lodge

MM does 1d4+1 and uses force damage (very few things have DR vs force and it can hit incorporal things like wraiths etc) and requires no attack roll. Its a level 1 spell. Use it and its gone.

RoF is a cantrip - you can shoot all day. Its 1d3 and its cold damage (undead for instance aren't affected by cold) and you need an attack roll. That said, it works with feats like Point Blank Shot (useful).

RoF is a back up attack spell for level 1 or 2 wizards who dont want to use crossbows.After that its good for keeping the beer cool.

Evokers with Point Blank shot can get RoF to 1d3+2 at level 1 on top of their force missile school bonus power - at level 1 and 2? Its not bad. It doesn't really scale well post level 3+ At that point conjurers do better.


I am new to pathfinder. When I have to roll in order to atack with spells. The roll to atack section dont mention spells.


artificer wrote:
I am new to pathfinder. When I have to roll in order to atack with spells. The roll to atack section dont mention spells.

spells will tell you if you need to roll an attack, some spells don't need an attack but give your target a save, some spells require an attack roll vs ranged or touch AC but don't give a save.

Magic Missile is a special case requiring no attack roll and giving no save.

there is no roll required to cast a spell unless you are trying to cast defensively


thanks a lot

Grand Lodge

Feel free to ask more questions - we are happy to help new players.


Helaman wrote:
Feel free to ask more questions - we are happy to help new players.

Thank you for that! I have been looking at the spell list and I have not been able to find out the spells that require a roll to atack. Should I look for something in specific on the spell description? Also the spell with "ranged touch attack" means that I have to be at touch distance or that I have to touch the target?


any spell that says "ranged touch attack" or "touch attack" means you have to roll to hit with the spell. Likewise... Rays.

Just be advised that these spells are targeted against an AC with no armor - so, hitting is usually easier.


ranged touch attack means that you make an attack roll to hit the person but you can do it at range.. so your ray of frost (or scorching ray at higher levels) can be fired as long as it is within the range of the spell. To hit with the spell you make a attack roll versus the opponents touch armor class. These can be great spells since most do not allow a saving throw to mitigate the damage but you do have to make a "to hit roll" which can alse be modified by "cover" or "in combat" modifiers (point blank shot and precise shot help with this)


sortof what I said...

anyway... just to add to the original question: MMissle also gets better as your character progresses in levels. Ray of Frost doesn't ever get better... unless you Maximize or Empower it (perish the thought).


What modifier should use on ranged touch attack and touch attacks? dex?


Ranged touch attacks are Dex, and melee touch attacks (usually just referred to as 'touch attacks' without the 'ranged') are Str, just like weapon attacks.


DirkTyrant wrote:


Just be advised that these spells are targeted against an AC with no armor - so, hitting is usually easier.

I havent been able to find this rule on the CRB!


I would like to thank you all! This is a great community!


artificer wrote:
DirkTyrant wrote:


Just be advised that these spells are targeted against an AC with no armor - so, hitting is usually easier.
I havent been able to find this rule on the CRB!

It's in the Combat chapter.

PRD>Combat>Combat Statistics>Armor Class wrote:
Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor.


Thanks reading it righ now!

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