OMG!! What have I been missing??!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I'm one of those kind of guys who only bought TSR/WoTC only products. 3.5 was starting to get to me, and I just refuse to even think about 4th. I gamer I know at work, suggested Pathfinder, and so I read the reviews on Amazon. Hmmm? Pretty impressive. Today, I went to the mall and bought the Core Rule Book. OMG!!!!! This is what 3rd edition should have been all along. I called my best gaming buddy, (strick TSR/WoTC guy like me,) and we just spent about an hour and a half on the phone talking about all the upgrades and improvements to the base classes. He's downloading the PDF by the way tonight. I'm 35, and I'm finally excited about tabletop gaming again!!! Even the Pathfinder Battles minis look pretty good. Yea buddy!!! Let's get rollin'! Horns to Paizo!!
\m/

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Welcome aboard and back to the boards.


http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz3z3g?What-are-some-things-about-the-Pathfinder- rules
Here is a good thread that lists some of the changes or frequently overlooked rules.

I recommend spending a lot of time with the core, as many things like attacking incorporeal creatures, grapple, and poison are now done differently.

But once you get the hang of it...
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

Yeah, it's ALL there!*

*Except Paizo's awesome art and physical copies, which are excellent.

EDIT: And one more thing I forgot... Adventure paths! Paizo makes the best mods, and provides the best support. If you need advice, there are dedicated forums filled with posters, and often the mods authors and game designers will help you out.

Grand Lodge

Welcome to the Paizo-side.

I'm an older gamer like yourself and Pathfinder was a breath of fresh air for me.

I really recommend the Advanced Players Guide as a PDF - at 9.99 its FANTASTIC value.

Also recommend d20pfsrd.com as well


Thank-you Fergie and Helaman for pointing me in the right directions. Usually I'll buy a 3.5 book, (just picked up both Fiendish Codex books) and they have me intrested for about 3-4 hours and then they are on the shelf in order by release dates. BORED! We just put the kids to sleep, and now I'm like ..... "babe, go ahead and play my PS3, I got ALOT of reading to do!" Gotta go all ...... I feel like I'm 14 again, on the day I mowed the last yard in the neighborhood and then went and bought the Rules Cyclopedia!!!


The core and APG are probably all that you really need to be quite honest. For monsters just use pfsrd as your source. Welcome aboard mate.

Scarab Sages

Welcome home Samurai.

Pathfinder is what AD&D should have become.

Scarab Sages

Even regardless of the rules, which are pretty frackin awesome, the community here at Pathfinder is what makes this the best game system today for me. The writers, editors, and owners of Paizo get on the boards to comment, share stories, and clarify rules and setting canon. The long time gamers here have just amazing homebrew stuff for each of the Adventure Paths and for the most part, everyone is extremely helpful. If you need build advice, rules clarification, or helpful suggestions about where to start or what to do next, just look around here on the forums, or ask away.

I do suggest you use the search function in the forums before posting questions if you are new. What little snark and grouchiness there is on the boards is mostly reserved for the 500th post about a particular rule or question because the search function wasn't used.

Welcome to Pathfinder!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Welcome to the site and all that is Pathfinder/Paizo.


Rock On!

_\M/


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The most important thing to remember is that it's usually best to ignore most of what I post.


Samurai632 wrote:
This is what 3rd edition should have been all along.

Quoted for truth.


Not only is there many great things about pathfinder but another reason I love it is the company behind it. Paizo just seem to me like real stand up people.

As you see others have linked to a SRD site here. That would never fly on that other company's site right? That's because rather then do everything they can to stop someone from making a convenient resource like said other company Paizo has embraced the fan base and have been very generous with it all.

In fact PF can seriously be played without spending a dime. You can play fully from the SRD without a problem. I did this with some friends to introduce them to it and it went well. Now we all have a number of books and/or PDFs but really only because we wanted to support PF not because we had to.


Welcome home :)

Glad to see another new face.

-S

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
The most important thing to remember is that it's usually best to ignore most of what I post.

This is the internet, it is best to ignore most of it.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
The most important thing to remember is that it's usually best to ignore most of what I post.
This is the internet, it is best to ignore most of it.

What?


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I just want to weigh in and say you should probably ignore me as well.

Shadow Lodge

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Artanthos wrote:
Pathfinder is what AD&D should have become.

Disagree. Maybe it's what 3E should have been, but AD&D? Not at all.

Shadow Lodge

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I'd like to second all those people who say that you should ignore them. I agree...ignore them.


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oh here is your sword for the flame war you will have to fight at some point. its +1


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Samurai632 wrote:

I'm one of those kind of guys who only bought TSR/WoTC only products. 3.5 was starting to get to me, and I just refuse to even think about 4th. I gamer I know at work, suggested Pathfinder, and so I read the reviews on Amazon. Hmmm? Pretty impressive. Today, I went to the mall and bought the Core Rule Book. OMG!!!!! This is what 3rd edition should have been all along. I called my best gaming buddy, (strick TSR/WoTC guy like me,) and we just spent about an hour and a half on the phone talking about all the upgrades and improvements to the base classes. He's downloading the PDF by the way tonight. I'm 35, and I'm finally excited about tabletop gaming again!!! Even the Pathfinder Battles minis look pretty good. Yea buddy!!! Let's get rollin'! Horns to Paizo!!

\m/

Welcome, and good on you. But as a stuck in the mud I am going to say this Sam, not all of the rules are fantastic or better, the additional abilities can lead to more crunch and accounting. Classes are stronger but balance is more off compared to 3.5--more means balance is more difficult. Optimisation and powergaming are more rife than ever. Some pathfinder adventures are superb, others are poor and some npcs in the books will make you ask, "really?"

I loved beta, then became very disappointed, then took what I liked back to 3.5.

In the grim future there are only complaints on boards.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

You didn't miss a thing, you're just getting to experience it all for the first time. You lucky sod!

Liberty's Edge

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3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Welcome, and good on you. But as a stuck in the mud I am going to say this Sam, not all of the rules are fantastic or better, the additional abilities can lead to more crunch and accounting. Classes are stronger but balance is more off compared to 3.5--more means balance is more difficult. Optimisation and powergaming are more rife than ever. Some pathfinder adventures are superb, others are poor and some npcs in the books will make you ask, "really?"

I loved beta, then became very disappointed, then took what I liked back to 3.5.

In the grim future there are only complaints on boards.

For the record: I (and many others) disagree with this post in its entirety. Or pretty close anyway.

There probably is a bit more accounting, and some adventures or NPCs have certainly (and inevitably) been less than stellar...but the rest of it? Nah.

IME optimization and powergaming (while around) are nowhere near as severe a problem, balance is vastly improved (though, again, not perfect), and most of the NPCs are fun and effetive at their intended purposes.

Pathfinder is cool, welcome aboard. :)

Sovereign Court

Some resources and differences from WOTC3.5 and Pathfinder.

WOTC owns a number of classic creatures that will not be showing up in Pathfinder products. Beholder, Illithid, ect.

There are no longer any cross class skills, if it is on the sheet, you can take it. BUT if it shows up under your class skills, you get a +3 to it for the first point ya put in it.

You will need the core rulebook. You should also get the Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Combat, and Ultimate Magic. These 4 books should keep you happy for quite a while.

The 3.5>Pathfinder conversion guide, free PDF.
http://paizo.com/products/btpy89m6?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Conversion-G uide

Free 1st level adventure.
Master of the Fallen Fortress
http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfin derModules/v5748btpy8ey4

Free 5th lvl adventure:
Dawn of the Scarlet Sun
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8rgh?Pathfinder-Module-Dawn-of-the-Scarlet-Su n

Free module that lets you play as a goblin!
Pathfinder Module: We Be Goblins!
http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfin derModules/v5748btpy8j5w

Free online magazine relating to all things Pathfinder.
http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/r/ritePublishing/pathfinderRPG/pathways

Sites I cant live without (Well I could, but who doesn't like access to nifty stuff)

www.d20pfsrd.com
Tons of rules, charts, magic items, creatures...

paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd
Paizo's list of rules, charts, magic items, creatures

http://www.pathguy.com/PathfinderCore.htm
Pretty ok character creator

I have a buncha other sites, but I cant get to em right now. But me fellow Paizoites can recomend quite a few I am sure.


PF still has the biggest flaws from 3.5. More customization for some classes which is a bit better.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Samurai632 wrote:

I'm one of those kind of guys who only bought TSR/WoTC only products. 3.5 was starting to get to me, and I just refuse to even think about 4th. I gamer I know at work, suggested Pathfinder, and so I read the reviews on Amazon. Hmmm? Pretty impressive. Today, I went to the mall and bought the Core Rule Book. OMG!!!!! This is what 3rd edition should have been all along. I called my best gaming buddy, (strick TSR/WoTC guy like me,) and we just spent about an hour and a half on the phone talking about all the upgrades and improvements to the base classes. He's downloading the PDF by the way tonight. I'm 35, and I'm finally excited about tabletop gaming again!!! Even the Pathfinder Battles minis look pretty good. Yea buddy!!! Let's get rollin'! Horns to Paizo!!

\m/

*Cynical glance* Yeah, welcome aboard...

...whatever. If I bothered explaining what's wrong with your statement (and the blind fanaticism), I'd have all the Pathfinder loyalists at my throat while the 3.0e/3.5e loyalists who at least have some grasp of rules-work remain hidden out of fear. *Looks again* Wait a minute, what is this?! Yes, the truth is still here!

JrK wrote:
PF still has the biggest flaws from 3.5. More customization for some classes which is a bit better.
3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Welcome, and good on you. But as a stuck in the mud I am going to say this Sam, not all of the rules are fantastic or better, the additional abilities can lead to more crunch and accounting. Classes are stronger but balance is more off compared to 3.5--more means balance is more difficult. Optimisation and powergaming are more rife than ever. Some pathfinder adventures are superb, others are poor and some NPCs in the books will make you ask, "really?"

I loved beta, then became very disappointed, then took what I liked back to 3.5.

In the grim future there are only complaints on boards.


Welcom Samurai.

Of all the suggestions you got, one was left out. Get a second job. We have been buying all this goodnies one booke at a time. You have to buy it all at once. big dent in the bank account. LOL

You might want to look at the different subricptions of monthly releases. This gives you a discount, free PDF's, something to look forward to in the mail. It's like ggetting a christmas gift every month.


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3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Welcome, and good on you. But as a stuck in the mud I am going to say this Sam, not all of the rules are fantastic or better, the additional abilities can lead to more crunch and accounting. Classes are stronger but balance is more off compared to 3.5--more means balance is more difficult. Optimisation and powergaming are more rife than ever. Some pathfinder adventures are superb, others are poor and some npcs in the books will make you ask, "really?"

I loved beta, then became very disappointed, then took what I liked back to 3.5.

In the grim future there are only complaints on boards.

I'm not into 3.5 either, but I agree with loyalist. PF has a great setting (actually a lot of em), they have got wonderfull fluff (well, except in the magic item dept.) but there are HUGE ballence issues and theres so many ways to opt/min-max a character its hard not to. (at least for me)

I havent been through many APs but the ones I have been in have been very good. It seems most people here really like the feat/combat system, I have some serious problems with it but it seems I'm very much in the minority.

oh and like what was said above... I have yet to buy one PF book... SRD works just fine.


I refused to have anything to do with 3.X, however I was delighted to get a hold of Pathfinder and frankly I have enjoyed it immensely.

Will it ever eclipse 1st Ed & 2nd Ed? No - because the sheer nostalgia will paint the memories gold and I shall forever see them through rose coloured glasses, but Pathfinder is awesome and smashes pretty much the rest of the systems I've ever played.


I'm the same way as the OP. I played only 3.5 for YEARS. Refused to touch anything else. When someone told me about PF, I didn't even look into it.

Finally, I looked into it, and I'll never go back to 3.5.

While balance issues exist, it's not like 3.5 where clerics and druids were walking gods of destruction that had other classes cowering in awe of their power.

Builds exist to make any class very viable.


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Shifty wrote:
I refused to have anything to do with 3.X, however I was delighted to get a hold of Pathfinder and frankly I have enjoyed it immensely.

Don't know if you've noticed, but Pathfinder is 3.X.


ImperatorK wrote:
Shifty wrote:
I refused to have anything to do with 3.X, however I was delighted to get a hold of Pathfinder and frankly I have enjoyed it immensely.
Don't know if you've noticed, but Pathfinder is 3.X.

I think what he means is, when 3rd Edition first came out, he didn't really like it, nor it's successor, 3.5. But when Pathfinder came out and he gave it a chance, he found that it was enjoyable.


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I think the CMB/CMD rules are what really nail it for a lot of people.

3.0/3.5 grappling/disarming/bullrushing was a bit of a mess.

Pathfinder really cleaned it all up to allow much faster combat and much less ridiculous bonuses on rolls for grapple and such, since it knocked down most of the "improved" feats to +2.

I can't remember how many grapplers I made in 3.5 that had such high grapple checks that any humanoid of my size or one larger was just not a viable encounter for our DM to use.

Especially once I added the reaping mauler class levels.


Welcome to the world of pathfinder my friend
Like you I'm an older gamer I started back in 81 and have tried a lot of systems
But I still kept coming back to D&D (for fantasy games)
I thought that changing to the D20 system was a brave and good call on the part of wizards
I really liked 3.5 and was very happy until they went 4th ed
Now don't get me wrong I tried playing 4th ed but just didn't like it .
It was far to much like an online game where you used feat and powers to force monsters to do things
And in my mind that just SUCKED
But then along came pathfinder and all was right in my gaming world again
Like you I get really excited about playing again it's like I'm back in the summer of 81
When my dad came home with a small red box that had Dungeons & Dragons across the top
And my life changed for ever
Anyway sorry about the ramble glad your enjoying your gaming again have fun and good adventuring


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If you are new to this scene, let me highly recommend the Adventure Path line.

To me, it's the last "missing piece" of the rules. It contains an entire, balanced campaign of material, which more or less guarantees the players can make whatever PC tickles their fancy and get full support from the campaign. Having all of that work done means the GM never burns out and you can actually play the whole campaign. As a GM, I find that I can be creative while editing their content to my liking, but I never bear the responsibility of lifting the whole campaign off the ground each session.

To me, it seems like Paizo (Pizzow!) has finally found a way to make the content end of the game into a serious "crunch" product. It is definitely the spiritual backbone of the game. In fact, I think that the best rules innovations from Paizo were only possible because they write two whole campaigns a year instead of simply guessing what everyone else does at the table. Check it out.


Fleshgrinder wrote:

I think the CMB/CMD rules are what really nail it for a lot of people.

3.0/3.5 grappling/disarming/bullrushing was a bit of a mess.

Pathfinder really cleaned it all up to allow much faster combat and much less ridiculous bonuses on rolls for grapple and such, since it knocked down most of the "improved" feats to +2.

I can't remember how many grapplers I made in 3.5 that had such high grapple checks that any humanoid of my size or one larger was just not a viable encounter for our DM to use.

Especially once I added the reaping mauler class levels.

Reaping maulers sure were sweet.

If you were a master of grapple you were a master at grappling, if you were great at trip you were great at making foes eat the dirt, if you were brilliant at sunder, things would break quick. I liked its reliability, not the "oh you are defeated by their CMD again". o-0

I preferred being damn good at whatever maneuver you specialised in, and not paying more feats to be as good as before. Oh wait, now the defensive bonuses to counter your techniques are higher, because the re-designers don't like combat maneuver users. Sigh.

Ah well, Sam you are going to have so much fun. For a time at least, until Groetus smiles upon you.


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Welcome to the Paizo community, Samurai632. PF is a great game, an excellent addition to the AD&D (extended) family.

I notice it doesn't take long for people to jump in and whiz in a new board member's corn flakes. That's unfortunate, but that's the internet for you. Take it all, including a lot of posts on this site, with a grain of salt. Play what you like, the way you like it and you'll be doing fine.


3.5 Loyalist wrote:
Fleshgrinder wrote:

I think the CMB/CMD rules are what really nail it for a lot of people.

3.0/3.5 grappling/disarming/bullrushing was a bit of a mess.

Pathfinder really cleaned it all up to allow much faster combat and much less ridiculous bonuses on rolls for grapple and such, since it knocked down most of the "improved" feats to +2.

I can't remember how many grapplers I made in 3.5 that had such high grapple checks that any humanoid of my size or one larger was just not a viable encounter for our DM to use.

Especially once I added the reaping mauler class levels.

Reaping maulers sure were sweet.

If you were a master of grapple you were a master at grappling, if you were great at trip you were great at making foes eat the dirt, if you were brilliant at sunder, things would break quick. I liked its reliability, not the "oh you are defeated by their CMD again". o-0

I preferred being damn good at whatever maneuver you specialised in, and not paying more feats to be as good as before. Oh wait, now the defensive bonuses to counter your techniques are higher, because the re-designers don't like combat maneuver users. Sigh.

Ah well, Sam you are going to have so much fun. For a time at least, until Groetus smiles upon you.

But remember, you may pay more feats, but you also get more feats.

A 20th level character without bonus feats only had 7 feats in 3.5.

In PF, a 20th level character without bonus feats has 10.

So, yes, you have to spend more feats, but you also get more feats.

And let's be honest, when you can make a grappler in 3.5 that only rolls his D20 to see if he rolls a 1, because he'll win on a 2 or higher, it's a touch broken.


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Fleshgrinder wrote:

But remember, you may pay more feats, but you also get more feats.

A 20th level character without bonus feats only had 7 feats in 3.5.

In PF, a 20th level character without bonus feats has 10.

So, yes, you have to spend more feats, but you also get more feats.

So; you get more resources than before, but need to spend more resources to gain the same benefit. Doesn't that mean all you're really getting is complication?

Liberty's Edge

Ringtail wrote:
So; you get more resources than before, but need to spend more resources to gain the same benefit. Doesn't that mean all you're really getting is complication?

Maybe a little. But this is Combat Maneuvers we're talking about specifically here, and any added complication in this area is more than made up for in reduced complication in others (such as ease of actual use).


Ringtail wrote:
Fleshgrinder wrote:

But remember, you may pay more feats, but you also get more feats.

A 20th level character without bonus feats only had 7 feats in 3.5.

In PF, a 20th level character without bonus feats has 10.

So, yes, you have to spend more feats, but you also get more feats.

So; you get more resources than before, but need to spend more resources to gain the same benefit. Doesn't that mean all you're really getting is complication?

You're getting the ability for more subtle specialization.

Which, yes, also means more complication, but it's not like these games are complex to begin with.

Complex shouldn't be a bad word.

Shadow Lodge

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Welcome, and I'm happy that you found a game you like.

There are a significant amount of changes, and many of them are not easily noticed. Overall, I think it is a good system, though I prefere Beta and 3.5 myself.

Personally I was highly disapointed with Ultimate Magic, less so with Ultimate Combat. The Adanced Players Guide is a must have, but also introduces so many off the issues with balance that people complain about. As a new player to the system, I would honestly suggest sticking to the Core book for a while, and if you like it that much after some time, begin to brach out to the APG and possibly some of the cheaper Players Guides. The Iner Sea World Guide is a nce book, too, and I might actually suggest that before even the APG.


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So the OP is happy and excited to have found a game system that reignites his love of gaming. Great! Why are there people in this thread trying to dampen his enthusiasm? Just because you have problems with the system doesn't mean you should discourage him.


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Haters gonna hate.

Shadow Lodge

I wasnt trying to dampen his or her excitment, and didn't mean it that way.


Take what you find is best, flush the rest.


Glad you're excited about gaming again Samurai632!


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Odraude wrote:


I think what he means is, when 3rd Edition first came out, he didn't really like it, nor it's successor, 3.5. But when Pathfinder came out and he gave it a chance, he found that it was enjoyable.

Pretty much!

After a long investment in Basic-AD&D-2ndEd, I felt that 3rd ed was a departure to how I saw the game ans sort of wasn't 'D&D' for me. I didn't like the way things were going, and certainly didn't like the bloaty system I saw growing and just decided I didn't identify with the system at all.

Now oddly enough, 3rd Ed =/= Pathfinder, compatible yes, equal no... that it doesn't have D&D written on it meant I could hop in and see the game on its own merit without the tinges of sentimentality.

I think this enjoyment has been further enhanced by the look and feel the Paizo staff have injected into the game. It's fresh, its high quality, and its certainly enjoyable.

So yeah same-same, but different.

Pathfinder gave me an entry to a Gaming renaissance, and for that I am quite thankful.


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ok so Alien are we all supposed to just go "ZOMG YOUR SO TOTALLY RIGHT, I'LL NEVER PLAY ANY OTHER RPG AGAIN!!!" because to say anything remotely negitive about a game someone is enthusiastic about is pissing in his breakfast, or marks you as being a "hater"?

I'll say this too... I was pretty excited to get into my first PF game, all the players were raving about how great the world and system was, as I was a new player and they were feeding my enthusiasm. By our second game they were admitting the faults, by the third game they were complaining about gross imballences, telling me which rules they wished were different and though they didnt say they would rather be playing another system they were going on and on about what their personal fav past systems were.

Dont get me wrong, although I am discouraged by many of the decisions of the designers, I am having fun playing PF but i'm very glad I can play the game without spending money on it. If I had ran out and spent a lot of money on the books, I would have felt let down by my 3rd game.

Grand Lodge

For me one of the things I enjoy *but seldom get the chance to take advantage of* is the Pathfinder Society aspect (read: Living Greyhawk etc). My main group such as it is, plays Friday nights and play a wide range of gaming options, so on any given week it could range from X-box to Boardgames to one of 10 RPGs (which tend to play in very short arc's).

Unfortunately I am not free on Friday's anymore and still have an 'itch to scratch'. PFS allows me to make characters that can grow and advance just like a campaign but on my own schedule (the odd weekend or tournament/convention) and play in bite sized scenarios'. The fact I play with a random table of players actually adds to the fun and any frustration I may feel with players I don't enjoy slinging dice with goes away simply by moving to the next game. On top of that? You meet some great new people who share your hobby that way (waves at Shifty).

Worth checking out if you don't have a regular gaming group.

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