Wild Stalker Errata?

[STR Ranger]

Hi

I am applying for a PBP as a wild stalker archetype and the wording seems wrong

Paizo wrote:

Rage Powers At 5th level, a wild stalker ranger gains a single rage power, as the barbarian class feature. He gains another rage power each five levels after 5th (to a maximum of four rage powers at 20th level). This ability replaces the ranger's second, third, fourth, and fifth favored enemy abilities.

Wild Talents (Ex) At 6th level, a wild stalker can either take a rage power, or gains a +2 insight bonus into any one of the following skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Stealth, Survival, or Swim. The wild stalker can gain one of these two benefits again every five levels after 6th (to a maximum of 4 times at 20th level). This ability replaces the ranger's second, third, fourth, and fifth favored enemy abilities

Is this correct?

I'm not sure you can replace the same ability twice.

Should the Wild Talents ability replace the rangers COMBAT STYLE feats instead?

[STR Ranger]

Awwww...no one has any errata ideas or rulings?

[carn]

STR Ranger wrote:

Hi

I am applying for a PBP as a wild stalker archetype and the wording seems wrong

Paizo wrote:

Rage Powers At 5th level, a wild stalker ranger gains a single rage power, as the barbarian class feature. He gains another rage power each five levels after 5th (to a maximum of four rage powers at 20th level). This ability replaces the ranger's second, third, fourth, and fifth favored enemy abilities.

Wild Talents (Ex) At 6th level, a wild stalker can either take a rage power, or gains a +2 insight bonus into any one of the following skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Stealth, Survival, or Swim. The wild stalker can gain one of these two benefits again every five levels after 6th (to a maximum of 4 times at 20th level). This ability replaces the ranger's second, third, fourth, and fifth favored enemy abilities

Is this correct?

I'm not sure you can replace the same ability twice.

Should the Wild Talents ability replace the rangers COMBAT STYLE feats instead?

Favored enemies are actually treated as five seperate abilites. Some ranger archetype for example replaces 2nd, 3rd, and 4th faven, but still gets 1st and 5th.

So wild talents does not replace combar style feats.

[Bertious]

I think it's one of those the answer is obivious things so no-one has bothered with it :D

[Bardic Dave]

Yeah, but the issue the OP pointed out was that two separate abilities both replace "the ranger's second, third, fourth and fifth favoured enemies." The EXACT iterations of the SAME feature are being replaced TWICE by a single archetype. That's very anomalous, and looks a lot like an error.

Also, it's weird that the Wild Stalker gains 2 rage powers in a row (at 5th and 6th) and then no more for levels 7-9, before gaining another 2 in a row (10 and 11th).

Finally, Wild Talents says you gain a new one at 6th and every 5 levels thereafter to a max of 4 at level 20. However, the 4th Wild Talent would actually be gained at level 21. It should actually say a max of 3 at level 16.

There are many poorly written/edited archetypes out there. This seems to be one of them.

[DracoDruid]

Never looked at it, but it is rather strange...

Can we somehow get a reply from the devs?

[STR Ranger]

Hit the faq button.

[Phasics]

ummm where's the rule that an archetypes can't give two abilities for one ?

And lets just have a look at what is being traded overall

Losing
Favored Enemy a +10/+8/+6/+4/+2 skills,attack,damage bonus vs 5 critters
Combat Style 5 Feats
Hunters Bond = animal companion or group bonus sharing

Gaining
Small Vision and Perception bonus
uncanny dodge
Rage at -3 levels
Rage Powers at 5th,10th,15th,20th
Rage powers or Skill bonus at 6th,11th,16th,(21st)

Trade looks fine to me ( the wild stalker archtype is clearly weaker)

The only errata that is needed is the (to a maximum of 4 times at 20th level) on wild talents since the 4th wild talent isn't gained until 21st level.

Otherwise I see no problem here

[Bertious]

The problem is where the class should say you lose combat feats 2-5 to gain rage powers it actually repeats the line from the text giving up favored enemy for rage powers.

[Phasics]

Bertious wrote:

The problem is where the class should say you lose combat feats 2-5 to gain rage powers it actually repeats the line from the text giving up favored enemy for rage powers.

I don't see that as a problem, where does it say they can't trade 1 for 2 ?

[STR Ranger]

Cause the way it's written you don't lose any bonus feats except the first. As written it's sweet but I'm not sure that was the intent.

[carn]

STR Ranger wrote:

Cause the way it's written you don't lose any bonus feats except the first. As written it's sweet but I'm not sure that was the intent.

Wild stalker:

"At 2nd level, a wild stalker gains uncanny dodge as the barbarian’s class feature.

This ability replaces the ranger's combat style feat."

Combat style feat is the extraordinary ability of the ranger as following:

"Combat Style Feat (Ex)
At 2nd level, a ranger must select one combat style to pursue. The choices depend on if the Advanced Player's Guide is being used.

•If Core Rules only: archery or two-weapon combat.

•If Advanced Player's Guide allowed: crossbow, mounted combat, natural weapon, two-handed weapon, and weapon and shield).
The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.

The benefits of the ranger's chosen style feats apply only when he wears light, medium, or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style feats when wearing heavy armor. Once a ranger selects a combat style, it cannot be changed."

The feats gained due to combat style feat at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th level are bonus feats, though in lazy wording are called combat style feats in the following.

Ability that replaces the combat style feat ability of ranger replaces all of that ability including all bonus feats.

If only 1 of those bonus feats is replaced its accompanied with the level.

[STR Ranger]

The sentence says "this replaces the rangers combat style Feat", not feats

Nor does it say replace combat style class feature.

[Phasics]

STR Ranger wrote:

The sentence says "this replaces the rangers combat style Feat", not feats

Nor does it say replace combat style class feature.

"Combat Style Feat" is the name of the Ex ability aka the Class Ability, the ability is not called "Combat Style"

And if it only replaced the 1st feat then it would have said this instead

"This replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level from Combat Style Feat"

so no the intent is very clear that it replaces the entire thing.

[space cowboy]

The intent is clearly to replace both abilities but to not give you the shaft on the combat feat side. So what if it was poorly written? Yoi lose the full combat style and favored enemy for a range of other options, whether you feel the replacement abilities should be written differently or not.

[kaisc006]

The only typo I see falls under Wild Talents where it states you will have a maximum of four at 20th level. Besides that, it clearly says at 2nd level you lose combat style feat for uncanny dodge, not the entire class feature. It appears the developers felt a rage power was not equivalent to the favored enemy class feature so instead of dropping two ragepowers in one level they spread them out.

[Bertious]

Looking at it i think Carn has it right but unfortunatly archetype wording seems to vary from writer to writer so for instance the intent of trophy hunter is to give up combat feats for deeds it also says combat style feat whereas the warden actually says all combat feats. In the end it's down to gm's to make the call as it is with all things although you could ask for the pfs ruling.

[STR Ranger]

Hit FAQ button.

[kaisc006]

STR Ranger wrote:

Hit FAQ button.

Can you post a link? I looked at the FAQ for Ultimate Combat and found nothing regarding the Wild Stalker

[leo1925]

I think that this very flavorful (but very weak archetype) suffers from editing problems (some people have mentioned the 21st level rage power gain etc.) but the way i read it it replaces both the combat style feats and the favored enemy.

[kaisc006]

leo1925 wrote:

I think that this very flavorful (but very weak archetype) suffers from editing problems (some people have mentioned the 21st level rage power gain etc.) but the way i read it it replaces both the combat style feats and the favored enemy.

Well think of it this way, how can something a barbarian gains every other level be the equivalent of what a ranger gains every five levels.

[Pathfinder Design Team]

FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9qx9

Ranger, Wild Stalker: How can I have the rage powers ability and the wild talents ability if they both replace favored enemy?

The rage powers ability and the wild talents ability should be considered one single ability granted by the archetype and replacing the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th favored enemies. At ranger level 5, 10, 15, and 20, you can select either a rage power or the skill bonus described in the wild talents ability.
This will be corrected in the next printing of Ultimate Combat.

[STR Ranger]

Also,

How does the archetype use QUARRY and Improved version. Do they simply do nothing?

[TGMaxMaxer]

I really wish they hadn't done that. Favored Enemy is actually 2 abilities every 5 levels, not 1. You get +2 at 1st, and every 5 you get an extra 2 separate +2s, which is why the original 5th/6th rage power/+2 ability made sense.

And quarry/imp quarry is a good question.

[blackbloodtroll]

Maybe Quarry and Improved Quarry, will be replaced with Greater Rage, and Tireless rage.

[TGMaxMaxer]

That would make complete sense.

[Strife2002]

Hopefully they'll also fix the other issue here. The archetype doesn't replace Master Hunter at 20th level, an ability that relies on favored enemy to function.

[STR Ranger]

Would it be quarry=gtr rage
Improved Quarry=Tireless rage
Master Hunter=Mighty rage

[blackbloodtroll]

They should have something that replaces them.

[Duskblade]

I would also like to see this archetype get updated. As it is written, things like 'Quarry', 'Improved Quarry', and 'Master Hunter' are all unusable. A replacement feature of some kind would be greatly appreciated.