Design Manager
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So, as a little roleplaying exercise, when my group starts a new game we try to introduce our characters without using any of the words on our character sheet. Saying things like "I'm a dwarven fighter" are totally off limits. You'd have to say something like "I'm a stocky, bearded axe wielder whose people live in the mountains of....." and things to that effect. During our current campaign, one of my players was playing an elven Sohei who took Weapon Training with the bow. During our most recent encounter, she had a series of misfortunate events lead her to a situation where she had an unconcious mount, a sundered bow, and was being backed into a corner by a pair of manticore. When she leapt at the manticore and began unleashing a flurry of unarmed strikes, the rest of the party members asked her why she'd decided to have her ranger take unarmed strike instead of using the feat for Quick Draw and using a rapier. We had made it to level 9 with the entire party thinking she was a ranger. Between always having a mount, using her "mystical" abilities to give said mount various bonuses, and the whole bow thing, everyone had come to the natural conclusion that she was an (albeit somewhat slow-starting initially) elven ranger.
What other Archetypes look almost nothing like the class that spawned them? Any Favorites?
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So, as a little roleplaying exercise, when my group starts a new game we try to introduce our characters without using any of the words on our character sheet. Saying things like "I'm a dwarven fighter" are totally off limits. You'd have to say something like "I'm a stocky, bearded axe wielder whose people live in the mountains of....." and things to that effect. During our current campaign, one of my players was playing an elven Sohei who took Weapon Training with the bow. During our most recent encounter, she had a series of misfortunate events lead her to a situation where she had an unconcious mount, a sundered bow, and was being backed into a corner by a pair of manticore. When she leapt at the manticore and began unleashing a flurry of unarmed strikes, the rest of the party members asked her why she'd decided to have her ranger take unarmed strike instead of using the feat for Quick Draw and using a rapier. We had made it to level 9 with the entire party thinking she was a ranger. Between always having a mount, using her "mystical" abilities to give said mount various bonuses, and the whole bow thing, everyone had come to the natural conclusion that she was an (albeit somewhat slow-starting initially) elven ranger.
What other Archetypes look almost nothing like the class that spawned them? Any Favorites?
I couldn't say. I did want to chime in and say that your post is brilliant, and explains mechanics vs concept far better than I ever could. Favorited.
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I have to agree with Ashiel on this one. It's a great story, and shows just how our preconceptions of what classes can do as opposed to how a single concept can be filled with a variety of classes.
I like playing Bards like Fighters, Rogues like Barbarians, and Clerics like Cavaliers. They can all work, but it ends up being weird to everyone else.
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Well while my group is used to it now, it typically took several levels before they realized I was a Paladin.
That's strange. It took them several levels to make the DC 0 perception check to notice the stick up your arse?
Well while my group is used to it now, it typically took several levels before they realized I was a Paladin.That's strange. It took them several levels to make the DC 0 perception check to notice the stick up your arse?
Maybe the stick was buried so deep that they couldn't see the end of it? ^_-
Seriously though, these kinds of things are great. Awesome job to everyone for making your concepts work regardless of what people's preconceptions might be.
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Design Manager
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I actually really like the Sohei class for a mounted warrior of almost any stripe. Since they use their ki to buff their mounts, they aren't tied as much to a single creature. You can have the badass plainsman who gets his mount shot or blown out from underneath him, rolls to safety, and then jumps on a horse whose lost its rider and spurs it forward with a ki boost to get back in the fight.
I'm a huge fan of class/archetypes that can play to fit a wide variety of roles, it's one of the reasons I started the thread, to see if anyone had similar stories :)
The oracle is another fun one, I remember one of my games ahving two oracles in the group, one who had the Metal mystery and played a blind swordsmith who'd given up the blade and fought with a scarf and cane, and the other a power-hungry worshiper of the Dark Tapestry haunted by the spirits of people he'd sacrificed.
They were completely different characters, were played completely differently, and yet were the same class (with nearly identical stats no less).
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Maybe the stick was buried so deep that they couldn't see the end of it? ^_-Well while my group is used to it now, it typically took several levels before they realized I was a Paladin.That's strange. It took them several levels to make the DC 0 perception check to notice the stick up your arse?
You're not a very good minmaxer are you? When I'm a paladin I always replace that stick with an immovable rod ASAP.
Also, it sounds like it would be nice to have a game with private character sheets for surprises like that. Problem is I always play with the same group of friends and we can't help but discuss it out of game >.>
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Well while my group is used to it now, it typically took several levels before they realized I was a Paladin.That's strange. It took them several levels to make the DC 0 perception check to notice the stick up your arse?
Well if it was like my last Paladin, it was probably because they were blinded by her vulgar language, hanging around in bars, and picking up guys for one night stands. She never called herself a Paladin. In fact, she referred to herself as "Some fool whose ideals will get her killed one day". She worshipped a LN goddess of witchcraft, magic, and undeath. She carried a bigass glaive, wore spiked gauntlets and armor, was pale with dark eyes, with piercings along her ears, and was an expert on magic and sorcery.
Of course, when he came to the Paladin's code she was 100% legal. She never lied and didn't see the point in it (resulting in her being blunt sometimes). "Why am I here? Well 'cause you kidnapped some brat and I came to see if you'd give him back. What do you say? Wanna work out a deal? It's not in me to leave the kid out here, but I'd really like to get back to town for a good drink and a better ****".
She was merciful. She even beat the snot out of an enemy with her gauntlets after declaring it here smite target. A big sentient monster. After she knocked it senseless, she stabilized it and told it to remember her, and what she did for it when it got better.
She was altruistic to a fault. She wandered around from place to place, not sleeping for days on end (LoH removed fatigue), and just kind of did what needed to be done. She never expected money for her services, but always took what was offered. She was the sort that would dive to push a kid aside from a dragon's breath cursing "Damnit, why do children have to be so annoying!?" *roasts* *stands back up self-healing* "Wanna fight do ya, lizard!?" *pulls up her sleeve and rakes off the melted flesh from her healing face* "Let's do it then. First one to cry uncle?" *declares smite target*.
Her long term goals involved overcoming her natural illnesses (Con 7) by accepting the goddess' blessing and becoming an unliving solider, so as to be better at dealing with the forces of evil (best thing for fighting renegade undead is with undead, afterall).
Was she a Paladin? Undoubtedly. Was she your stereotypical one? Not at all.
You're not a very good minmaxer are you? When I'm a paladin I always replace that stick with an immovable rod ASAP.
I assumed they were low level still. ^_- But no, not with paladins. I tried to play one...once...after one session the group unanimously declared I was never allowed to play a paladin again. <_<
stuff about her character
...Your paladin...sounds awesome. If people in my groups played paladins like that instead of the stereotypical overeager boy/girl scouts, I'd probably be more inclined not to wince whenever I hear someone's going to be playing one. ^_-
You're not a very good minmaxer are you? When I'm a paladin I always replace that stick with an immovable rod ASAP.I assumed they were low level still. ^_- But no, not with paladins. I tried to play one...once...after one session the group unanimously declared I was never allowed to play a paladin again. <_<
stuff about her character...Your paladin...sounds awesome. If people in my groups played paladins like that instead of the stereotypical overeager boy/girl scouts, I'd probably be more inclined not to wince whenever I hear someone's going to be playing one. ^_-
Thanks much, actually. She was a blast to play. Everyone in the group seemed to love her. She was easy going, but very strong willed. She stuck to her principles. Ended up having a romance with the party's Lawful Evil Hellknight, who she convinced to be a little less hardcore in his methods (so I guess she got him to be LE with LN tendencies?).
Well while my group is used to it now, it typically took several levels before they realized I was a Paladin.That's strange. It took them several levels to make the DC 0 perception check to notice the stick up your arse?Well if it was like my last Paladin, it was probably because they were blinded by her vulgar language, hanging around in bars, and picking up guys for one night stands. She never called herself a Paladin. In fact, she referred to herself as "Some fool whose ideals will get her killed one day". She worshipped a LN goddess of witchcraft, magic, and undeath. She carried a bigass glaive, wore spiked gauntlets and armor, was pale with dark eyes, with piercings along her ears, and was an expert on magic and sorcery.
Of course, when he came to the Paladin's code she was 100% legal. She never lied and didn't see the point in it (resulting in her being blunt sometimes). "Why am I here? Well 'cause you kidnapped some brat and I came to see if you'd give him back. What do you say? Wanna work out a deal? It's not in me to leave the kid out here, but I'd really like to get back to town for a good drink and a better ****".
She was merciful. She even beat the snot out of an enemy with her gauntlets after declaring it here smite target. A big sentient monster. After she knocked it senseless, she stabilized it and told it to remember her, and what she did for it when it got better.
She was altruistic to a fault. She wandered around from place to place, not sleeping for days on end (LoH removed fatigue), and just kind of did what needed to be done. She never expected money for her services, but always took what was offered. She was the sort that would dive to push a kid aside from a dragon's breath cursing "Damnit, why do children have to be so annoying!?" *roasts* *stands back up self-healing* "Wanna fight do ya, lizard!?" *pulls up her sleeve and rakes off the melted flesh from her healing face* "Let's do it then. First one to cry...
Just can't go anywhere without seeing your comments in a thread now days huh? :P I will admit though, this Paladin will be showing up in a game some day, whether I'm playing, or GMing.
I'd say the Animal Speaker, the Dawnflower Dervish, and the Detective Archetypes of the Bard class resemble other classes, specifically the Druid, Magus, and Inquisitor, at least at first. When I first saw those three Archetypes in play, I thought they were other classes, then found out it was a Bard.
some old 3.5 characters of mine.
Schoolteacher from turtleback ferry. Ex librarian, wore a long white coat and a pair of glasses. used complex thassilonian numeric codes to create effects similar to magic. the power of math. got killed by the runelord and became the chief librarian of the plane of Mechanus. loved thassilonian history, dissecting things, experimenting on others, history, and mathematics. she was a diviner/loremaster.
Middle Aged Russian Scientist who couldn't get over the loss of his academy sweetheart. replaced his entire body with automail prosthetics with the exception of his brain, created a daughter/apprentice/personal mechanic using his own DNA via cloning. always had the right tool for the job. admitted he was his own monster yet cursed the gods. he was a rogue/diviner/unseen seer/arcane trickster.
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Thanks much, actually. She was a blast to play. Everyone in the group seemed to love her. She was easy going, but very strong willed. She stuck to her principles. Ended up having a romance with the party's Lawful Evil Hellknight, who she convinced to be a little less hardcore in his methods (so I guess she got him to be LE with LN tendencies?).You're not a very good minmaxer are you? When I'm a paladin I always replace that stick with an immovable rod ASAP.I assumed they were low level still. ^_- But no, not with paladins. I tried to play one...once...after one session the group unanimously declared I was never allowed to play a paladin again. <_<
stuff about her character...Your paladin...sounds awesome. If people in my groups played paladins like that instead of the stereotypical overeager boy/girl scouts, I'd probably be more inclined not to wince whenever I hear someone's going to be playing one. ^_-
Any time. ^_^ You've very quickly become one of my "she's involved? read the thread!" type posters because of this kind of thing (and the kung fu dragon from the monk thread ^_-).
On topic...I don't think I've ever done this specifically, because I tend to make my characters to fit the party (or rather, I tend to have a bunch of ideas for them and pick which will fit that particular party best), but now I'm tempted to not tell people what my next character is and let them figure her out for themselves.
In 3.5 I enjoyed being slight, but heavily tattooed and tribal looking man in ragged leather armor and armed with nothing but what appeared to be claws attached to gauntlets. When going into battle he'd roar and charge with all 5'8" and 150 pounds of mass. And then he'd finish the charge by punching them in the face with a Shocking Grasp and maybe turning into an adult red dragon. I bet they were really confused, but the confusion didn't tend to last long because he was a thrashing machine.
Barbarian 2, Rage Mage 4, Sorcerer 8... all the tattoos were magical and one give a +1 to caster level, so was a 15 caster level, decidedly non-squishy mage. It was good times.
100% RAW legal? If you ignore that alcohol is a poison, maybe :p
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Any time. ^_^ You've very quickly become one of my "she's involved? read the thread!" type posters because of this kind of thing (and the kung fu dragon from the monk thread ^_-).
Hah, thank you so much. ^.^
On topic...I don't think I've ever done this specifically, because I tend to make my characters to fit the party (or rather, I tend to have a bunch of ideas for them and pick which will fit that particular party best), but now I'm tempted to not tell people what my next character is and let them figure her out for themselves.
Well I highly recommend it. It was a character in an online community, so we played with different people in a big sandbox world. Your commentary actually reminds me of her first adventure. She was looking for some clues in an old tunnel where some cultists were rumored to have been seen after a kidnapping, and ran across the party. They were promptly attacked by a creature in the tunnel.
Now the players had never met my PC, but had seen her sheet out of game. So during the first encounter, she moves through the party and draws a wand and casts bless on the party, and helped them deal with the creature. They asked what she was and she said "A fool who got tied up in looking for some kids, and then I got stuck down here. Goddess willing I guess you guys are here for the same?"
So she traveled with them for a bit, until they encountered a "boss monster" type enemy, whom she ended up burning her smite evil on and pummeling into the ground with her gauntlets. When it finally fell down, she was pretty badly wounded. She fell back on the ground, sitting against a stone, after healing the badguy to make sure he didn't die. "Okay, that's it boys and girls. It was nice helping all of you..." she said, placing her weapons in their proper places and drinking some water. "...but it's been a long day, and I want to have a drink and see if I can get ****ed before the night's over."
At this point, one of the PCs breaks the 4th wall and says "What kind of Paladin are you!?", apparently stunned by the fact she was apparently a bit vulgar in her speech and was commenting about having a wild night of sex if she could manage it. She quirked her eyebrow curiously and then leaned her head back looking at the sky, then looked back. "Well, I guess you could call me that. I'm just a wanderer with a heart bigger than her brain".
She was an instant hit. XD
100% RAW legal? If you ignore that alcohol is a poison, maybe :p
Fun fact. She hung out in bars, but drank green tea. Had this little backstory about how she wandered out of the main country during her walkabouts, and fell in love with green tea. So she carries some of it with her everywhere she goes. When she goes to the bar, she pays for a drink but just asks for hot water and soaks her tea leaves in it. She's never actually been drunk for that matter.
This would be difficult for my group to do, as we all talk about our characters weeks before a campaign starts. But at present, my barbarian is the closest thing to a rogue we have.
I ran a one off years ago with regenerated characters. I read an expository description of each character and had each player choose based off of that. They seemed to like that, aside from one player.
That would've been nice to know, as the earlier story strongly implied drinking :p
We generally all discuss our characters a ton at my groups, so this sort of thing wouldn't really work out. It sounds like a blast though. It must've been hard to not mention any monk features though.
That would've been nice to know, as the earlier story strongly implied drinking :p
Sorry about that. AFAIK, drinking's not against the paladin code. The code seems to imply that it means using poison in a hostile fashion, but in a grossly literal term drugs would qualify; which would mean no coffee, booze, possibly no tea, or anything except water. I'm 100% certain the GM would have had no problem with her drinking booze if desired, but she didn't like getting drunk anyway.
Speaking of odd paladinish activities though...
There was a rather colorful commentary among the group concerning her immunity to disease, ability to remove diseases via lay on hands, and her enjoyment of wild casual sex. There's a good chance she actually cured some people of STDs during the S part of that acronym.
I was joking about the poison bit :) Although I do recall someone trying to make that case for their Drunken Master archetype (or another "alcohol fueled" archetype) with regards to immunity to poison.
I was joking about the poison bit :) Although I do recall someone trying to make that case for their Drunken Master archetype (or another "alcohol fueled" archetype) with regards to immunity to poison.
Well as far as I know immunity means you can't be affected by it. As far as I know, I don't think it prevents you from being a target or triggering certain effects. For example, if you had a class feature that said "X happens each time you drink a potion", I don't think being immune to a potion's effects would prevent the other thing from functioning.
But that is a different discussion for another time, methinks. ^.^
Oddly enough, this reminds me of the pair of characters that my friend and I rolled up. She had devised an Elven Oracle of the Life Mystery...and I was a Drow Necromancer. And surprisingly, we were the best of friends that balanced each others' personalities out. She was a somber, melancholy healer that despised people because they always needed to be saved. She did her job, she did it well, and cried her blind eyes out every day because the gods had cursed her to watch people suffer. Serious downer she was. Whereas my Drow was the happiest humanoid on two legs. Despite being the son of an escaped slave, and a practitioner of what is often considered a vile and odious magic, he's really someone you'd have a drink with if you could look past the appearance. His main goal in life was to be a friggin archaeologist, and his view was that if you asked nicely, the moldy corpses would tell you everything. His biggest concerns to date? He hasn't gotten laid in 20 years...the Oracle has too many feminine bits for his taste.
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I love the characters! Paladin is such a potentially great class to play when you've got a player who can pull the stick out of there pally's rear and a DM who knows well enough to keep the stick out of his. It should always be about what the player brings to the class, not how well the player squeezes themselves into the stereotype. So many people love to get into the wars about what a paladin is, or should be, or what a monk, or druid or what have you. Half the fun of playing at a table with other people is discovering what they bring, not just to the group, but to their character.
Ashiel, you can play at our table anytime :)
It's fun to play characters that do not match the stereotype, archetypes can be a great help making such characters work.
One of my players put together a dwarven rogue in fullplate, a real greedy bastard, dirty fighter. Nobody would expect it is a pure rogue except for the number of D6 rolling across the table whenever he manages to pull off a 'dirty trick'.
It's fun to play characters that do not match the stereotype, archetypes can be a great help making such characters work.
One of my players put together a dwarven rogue in fullplate, a real greedy bastard, dirty fighter. Nobody would expect it is a pure rogue except for the number of D6 rolling across the table whenever he manages to pull off a 'dirty trick'.
My best friend did something similar. He cam into my Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, and had a Hat of Disguise. He always made himself appear like he was wearing heavy armor. He told everyone he was a 'warrior from his homeland' and proceeded to play up that angle. He did sneaky things, and did many rogue things. Everyone thought he was lucky as hell, because he seemed to crit all the time. When any of the players saw him roll his D20, I would roll the sneak attack damage (when appropriate) behind the screen. We kept the ruse going for 5 or so levels, before they realized he was a Rogue.
+1 for Ashiel's paladin.
I don't think I've ever pulled off a character as another class, but I have had some fun with hidden character sheets.
In one 3.5 campaign, I made a gnoll fighter inflicted with were-bear lycanthropy. He was a typical, evil gnoll, but when the full moon came out, he turned into a bear and acted... good. This was a replacement character for one that had died, so the campaign was already rolling. I showed up to the session, and told the other players my new character wasn't ready yet, and I would work on it while they played, sending questions to the DM as necessary by IM so as not to disrupt gameplay. In fact, the character was done, and I was controlling it by IM. My bear, who had been outcast by his tribe and was wandering hungry through the countryside, proceeded to try to steal some food from the party's camp while they were fighting some demons or something. At first, they thought it was a demon, after their artifacts or something, and when they finally busted into the wagon and the GM said, "It's a bear!" they were dumbfounded. But that bear fought them tooth and nail to escape, using every trick in the book, but not hurting them. They didn't know what the GM was thinking, but knew it was obviously a seriously important plot point. They captured him, managed to get him back into gnoll form, questioned him, and still didn't know it wasn't an NPC. It wasn't until I transformed to hybrid form on purpose during a fight, lost the will save, and turned permanently good that I revealed it was actually my character.
Then, the character died during the assault on his old tribe, who were the villains of that part of the story. So I made another new character.
That one was a half-human, half-arboreal-dragon Bard 1/Sorcerer 1/Chaos Monk 2/Favored Soul 2 with Vow of Poverty.
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I do this all the time, but use far less obfuscation, since it'd be pretty pointless with a public wiki in use. I guess I could try passwords or something for the sheets...
Be that as it may, I've played a Varisian rogue as a agent cum archeologist of a golem artificier guild. Perfect with traps and ancient trappings, none of that kleptomaniac humbug everybody associates Varisians with. Still the rest of the party thought him some kind of pie-snatching dolt with fancy ego issues. Thanks guys. Now he's dead.
Another character was played as piratey rogue, but was actually a ranger with a smash of other classes. Nimble as hell, sporting a smarmy attitude and usually a rapier sheathed in some poor sob's back. Dextery rage was my favorite part, since there really was no way to tell it apart from any other combat style. The dude just suddenly become even more dextrous and agile, performing foolhardy stunts and evading all blows like a silvery fish swims up a creek. He's survived crazy odds so many times that I might as well give the guy a black beard one of these days. Or portray him as a Brevoyan monk. :D
All in all, I've found that it's easier for EVERYONE no matter how little they usually roleplay to get into their characters and support each other if in actual play class and ability markings and names are dropped as soon a possible. Clerics become witch hunters, fighters aging constables, wizards reality-bending mentalists, barbarians angry bosuns and paladins wandering gunmen ready to end all evil. To boot, there seems to be more and more archetypes and classes that defy stereotypes, so slowly letting go of expectations and roles should become the norm in general.
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Well if it was like my last Paladin, it was probably because they were blinded by her vulgar language, hanging around in bars, and picking up guys for one night stands. She never called herself a Paladin. In fact, she referred to herself as "Some fool whose ideals will get her killed one day". She worshipped a LN goddess of witchcraft, magic, and undeath. She carried a bigass glaive, wore spiked gauntlets and armor, was pale with dark eyes, with piercings along her ears, and was an expert on magic and sorcery.
I love that paladin.
Currently running an "obfuscated" character in one of the campaigns I'm in. In character, the pair is passing themselves off as a "tiefling mercenary who hides his appearance due to hatred of tieflings" who has as a young charge a young lady of a noble house who is a "sorceress". In actuality, the young woman in the headscarf is a summoner and the guy with the falcata in the big coat, scarf and wide brimmed hat is her eidolon.
As part of the backstory, the eidolon was passed off as a mercenary to make her look more vulnerable to her cousins so they'd make mistakes they wouldn't if they were more wary. One of those fun families where only one can inherit the family's noble title and estates so all the young ones try to off each other. With the caveat that only those with eidolons can inherit rule of the family.
It's been a lot of fun roleplaying it. The eidolon often barks orders like an experienced mercenary, usually leaving the girl looking frightened and inexperienced. I even had her drop her crossbow when he "startled her" just to reinforce the charade. The other PCs all talk to him almost exclusively as though the girl wasn't worth talking to, even though it's she who is pulling the strings.
Doesn't hurt her disguise efforts that she's by far the smartest PC in the party, being the only one without a negative Int modifier.
If I didn't despise the Summoner class, I'd love to play something like that Poldaran. I think it's a really clever use of the Summoner and Eidolon, though I imagine it gets a little difficult when it comes time to divy up watch and the Eidolon can't take part.
If I didn't despise the Summoner class, I'd love to play something like that Poldaran. I think it's a really clever use of the Summoner and Eidolon, though I imagine it gets a little difficult when it comes time to divy up watch and the Eidolon can't take part.
It hasn't come up yet(haven't gone too far from town yet, so all adventures have ended with easy access to an inn), but I'm working at making the girl seem so useless for watch that they don't ask her, so she can just stay awake during the Eidolon's turn.
I'm also considering convincing the GM to let me grab a ring of sustenance to help with it all. If she has to effectively take two watches to keep up the charade, then that'd give her an easy way to do it.
I had a Ranger/Red Mantis Assassin that every thought was rogue. When asked about the saw tooth sabres I told them I took them from dead Red Mantis Assassin that I had killed. Eventually they clued in I was RMA but never figured out I was Ranger.
I had a friend who played a pseudo-dragon summoner. His Eidolon was supposedly the soul of his own brother, made manifest as a dragon. Initially some of the other players thought the GM had allowed him to play a dragon with a pet pseudodragon... :P
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Of course, when he came to the Paladin's code she was 100% legal.
Close, but not quite 100% legal:
Ended up having a romance with the party's Lawful Evil Hellknight, who she convinced to be a little less hardcore in his methods (so I guess she got him to be LE with LN tendencies?).
Paladin's can only associate with evil in exceptional circumstances. Maybe the GM called the entire campaign an "exceptional circumstance" but I think that would be streching it quite a bit, and the romance would push it over the line to more than just an ally.
That said, I love Paladin's that avoid the sterotypes. My favorite is the pompous arrogant Paladin that feels if you aren't willing to kick in the door and destroy everything in the room you're a contemptable coward.
I'd say it was legal, especially if the Paladin was trying to redeem the Hellknight.
Yea....romance pushes it way over the line. Bravo for the attempt to push it as far as possible, but it went too far.