Who casts the 8th level spells in Port Peril?


Skull & Shackles


Read through Port Peril in Skulls and Shackles 3 the other day. As a metropolis, they have "8th level spells available" which means 8th level spells are for sale, as per the limitations mentioned in the Core Rulebook.

Now, some people have argued that this means that every 8th level or lower spell is available. Cleric, wizard, witch, druid, whatever. I've said myself that it represents a more limited selection with 8th level spells being the pinnacle.

But that doesn't really matter. Who in Port Peril can cast 8th level spells at all?

The Master of Gales lives in a nearby town, and he's a pretty big friggin' deal. Merited full write up and everything. He's a 15th level druid.

Are we to understand that there is another 15th level caster in Port Peril, who not only wasn't worth mentioning (when dwarf wizard 7's were), but who also functions as a simple vendor of spells?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kain Darkwind wrote:

The Master of Gales lives in a nearby town, and he's a pretty big friggin' deal. Merited full write up and everything. He's a 15th level druid.

Are we to understand that there is another 15th level caster in Port Peril, who not only wasn't worth mentioning (when dwarf wizard 7's were), but who also functions as a simple vendor of spells?

Yes. Or sort of, anyway. The reason Port Peril has 8th level spells at all is a holy site to Besmara, so a 15th level 'high priest' of some sort seems a reasonable assumption, and being apolitical and basically mercenary seems entirely in character for a Cleric of Besmara. He or she's not listed because, frankly, they aren't a 'player' on the political stage, or liely to hang out with the PCs. Arcane spellcasting is probably available at a slightly lower level due to the superstitious nature of the place (maxing out at 6th or 7th level spells from a similarly disinterested Wizard or Sorcerer) but 8th level scrolls are likely available due to the the town's nature as a base of trade.

Or to put it another way: Only the ruler of a place and NPCs that the PCs are likely to interact with in a meaningful fashion are statted up. This often correlates to power (especially in the case of rulers) but the power is hardly the deciding factor in who's statted up. I mean, surely you didn't think that, in a city of over 46,000 people, there was nobody between 9th level (the highest listed NPC in the write-up of Port Peril) and the Hurricane King's 18th? Right?

The Master of the Gales is one of the rulers of the shackles, and it's that, not his level, that grants him a full description and stat-block.

Or that's the way I've always interpretted such things, anyhow.


It just seems strange that we would assume that such a powerful priest of Besmara wouldn't even bear mentioning in the gazetteer.

I find this happens a lot...7th and 8th level spellcasting is a pretty big deal, and throughout Golarion, the 13th level or higher characters that have been identified confirm that...because they themselves are big deals. I don't know why someone on par with the Linnorm Kings who also wields magic would slip under the radar.


In theory it could be someone with UMD and access to scrolls. If that is the case, then there could be a good deal of people that could be available but not worth mentioning. There is also the possibility of lower level wizards using scrolls to emulate hirer level wizards. Not to mention other magic items or artifacts that might be able to. Then worse case scenario there are things that can grant wishes that could be used to emulate high level spells. Finally high level spell casters do not really need to be tided down to a location either. There are factions that would have offices in Port Peril, where if someone with the right money showed up could call in the aid of a high level caster that might well be living on some demi-plane somewhere.


Make sure you arent confusing spell casting (which is caster level) with spell level.

For example here a village that has a spellcasting of 3rd which means they have a spell caster of 3rd level who can cast 2nd level spells.

Base Value 600 gp; Purchase Limit 2,500 gp; Spellcasting 3rd

But in terms of spell availability I am not sure if you mean spellcasting as a service or buying scrolls. If you are talking about spellcasting as a service then you can limit their access to these spells through differences in alignment, religious affiliation or just bad reaction rolls, or you can control the type of caster.

If you are debating access to scrolls then if you look at pg 460 of the Core book it states that

Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table 15–1). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found
for sale with little effort in that community.

And since scrolls are considered magic items they would fall under this definition.

If I am wrong please post the source and page number but this how we have interpreted the term "spellcasting".


Xaod The Destroyer wrote:
If I am wrong please post the source and page number but this how we have interpreted the term "spellcasting".

Gamemastery Guide, Page 204

Spellcasting wrote:
Unlike magic items, spellcasting for hire is listed separately from the town’s base value, since spellcasting is limited by the level of the available spellcasters in town. This line lists the highest-level spell available for purchase from spellcasters in town. Prices for spellcasting appear on page 159 of the Core Rulebook. A town’s base spellcasting level depends on its type.

The Spellcasting line gives the highest level of spell, not spellcaster, in the city. It does conflict a bit with Golarion, which tends towards lower level NPCs, and thus lower levels of spellcasting. Personally, I like to think there is just one dude who does it all, teleporting from metropolis to metropolis casting ridiculously high level spells for adventurers. He also kills off anyone who approaches his level to keep them from competing for his business, explaining the generally low level of characters but ready access to high level items and spells. Plus, it is funnier that way.

EDIT: UMD and scrolls, while a nice idea, wouldn't make much sense. The cost of spellcasting is SL x CL x 10, while the price of a scroll is SL x CL x 25. Even if they bought the scrolls wholesale, they would be losing money with every casting.


This is a great opportunity to drop in an NPC of your own making that you can tie in directly to your group.

That being said, I would place a high-level divine caster as a caretaker of the Berth of the Sea Wraith or increase the level of Kennewick Masi or Livdana Giedrence. Also, who's to say there isn't a high-level caster lurking around in the Knotworks or the Sunken Plaza? Somebody who wants more than just cold gold for a spell...


Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:
Xaod The Destroyer wrote:
If I am wrong please post the source and page number but this how we have interpreted the term "spellcasting".

Gamemastery Guide, Page 204

Thanks Mort.

Liberty's Edge

Kain Darkwind wrote:

It just seems strange that we would assume that such a powerful priest of Besmara wouldn't even bear mentioning in the gazetteer.

I find this happens a lot...7th and 8th level spellcasting is a pretty big deal, and throughout Golarion, the 13th level or higher characters that have been identified confirm that...because they themselves are big deals. I don't know why someone on par with the Linnorm Kings who also wields magic would slip under the radar.

Well, presumably, IC, they haven't. They're likely well-known...just not extraordinarily relevant to the lives of the PCs or the adventures they're likely to engage in (for whatever reason). Or at least not likely to be.

Speaking to likelihood, the Shackles is the pirate haven in Golarion, and the highest level Cleric of Besmara listed in the Isles of the Shackles book is 11th level. That's...a bit unlikely, too, isn't it? You'd certainly expect a badder, more impressive, Cleric than that to be available somewhere in the area, here in her very domain. So why not put him or her in Port Peril and solve two absences simultaneously?

And this issue does indeed crop up occasionally, but if it didn't, there'd be a lot less room in the setting for GMs to plausibly add their own high -level characters. This way, they can. I think that's the superior option, personally.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:


Speaking to likelihood, the Shackles is the pirate haven in Golarion, and the highest level Cleric of Besmara listed in the Isles of the Shackles book is 11th level. That's...a bit unlikely, too, isn't it? You'd certainly expect a badder, more impressive, Cleric than that to be available somewhere in the area, here in her very domain. .

Besmara is a young goddess with few clergy. It does not surprise me that her most mighty priest is "merely" a legend (11th level). On the other hand as a goddess that is certainly pro-deception, it also wouldn't surprise me if her more powerful servants keep themselves out of the public eye.

A somewhat unrelated thought since its an island *port* metropolis, the person who casts 8th level spells, while statistically certain to exist in such a place at any give, may not be the same person twice in two days. Rather that slot could be filled with a parade of foreigners, whose location and desired prices are ever-shifting.


Jaerc wrote:
A somewhat unrelated thought since its an island *port* metropolis, the person who casts 8th level spells, while statistically certain to exist in such a place at any give, may not be the same person twice in two days. Rather that slot could be filled with a parade of foreigners, whose location and desired prices are ever-shifting.

I think that is an awesome idea.

Liberty's Edge

Jaerc wrote:
Besmara is a young goddess with few clergy. It does not surprise me that her most mighty priest is "merely" a legend (11th level). On the other hand as a goddess that is certainly pro-deception, it also wouldn't surprise me if her more powerful servants keep themselves out of the public eye.

Uh...she's not young. According to her deity article she 'predates the age of Enthronement by several centuries.' as a deity, and millenia before that as a spirit. She is thus definitionally older than Aroden or any god created by the Starstone, and around 5,000 years old as a deity in total.

And while her clergy aren't spectacularly common, they aren't uncommon either, as it's implied that most pirate ships have a priest in residence. And it certainly seems wrong that she'd not have a single priest anywhere in the world above 11th level...and if they exist anywhere, you'd expect the Shackles to be the place.

Jaerc wrote:
A somewhat unrelated thought since its an island *port* metropolis, the person who casts 8th level spells, while statistically certain to exist in such a place at any give, may not be the same person twice in two days. Rather that slot could be filled with a parade of foreigners, whose location and desired prices are ever-shifting.

This, however, is indeed an awesome idea, and would work very well indeed.


'Available' does not mean 'disponible at once'

For me , this means that if your PCs want a 8th level spell cast or a scroll of same , they can ask and a 15th level caster will travel to the place in a near future.

So far in all the supplements Paizo has done, the general levels of the NPCs has been below the levels generally given by the Core books .

This is a good thing since there is not the glut of archmages one could find in another setting and this means that a 10th level character is already exceptional .


Dmw - Maybe not young in the sense of mortal time, but in the cosmic span; she's certainly not among the eldest gods, even on Golarion. My meaning though is that her worship by humans is scattered and represents a minority faith. Such faiths aren't super-likely to have 11th+ casters, though I concede that YMMV when talking in these broad terms, and that is a post-legendary Besmaran priest is needed for a story, there's nothing to really suggest one (or twenty) couldn't exist. Are you running S&S btw?

Kain - Thanks, mate. Hope it helps.

Robin - are you suggesting nomadic archmagi? Win!

Liberty's Edge

Jaerc wrote:
Dmw - Maybe not young in the sense of mortal time, but in the cosmic span; she's certainly not among the eldest gods, even on Golarion.

Eh, at 5,000 she's solidly middle-aged by Golarion standards. I mean she's younger than the "I fought Rovagug" crowd...but so are a lot of Gods, and she's well over ten times Iomedae's age.

Jaerc wrote:
My meaning though is that her worship by humans is scattered and represents a minority faith. Such faiths aren't super-likely to have 11th+ casters, though I concede that YMMV when talking in these broad terms, and that is a post-legendary Besmaran priest is needed for a story, there's nothing to really suggest one (or twenty) couldn't exist.

Well, see, based on my readings of various Golarion stuff...15th level isn't post-legendary. It's well into legendary, don't get me wrong...but it's the default level for rulers of a country (with the exceptional rulers being even higher), and, as the settlement rules seem to indicate, common enough that most metropolises have a spellcaster or three of that level. Which is to say it's impressive, but by no means unheard of (with at least half a dozen or so people of that level per country). An old, well established, God with a decent constituency, even one with a narrow portfolio, seems like they'd definitely have at least one priest in that power-bracket, with more established Gods having several.

Jaerc wrote:
Are you running S&S btw?

Nah, I ran into this thread when it was still in the General Discussion Forum. I might do so in the future, however. And am almost certain to run a game in the Shackles at some point, even if it's not S&S.


nomadic archmagi, sounds exactly like an adventurer...


I rather thought of an archmagi living in his tower or castle .
He receives a demand for a scroll of mind blank , takes the time to scribes it and then send one of his disciples to deliver it .
If his presence is necessary , he then teleports.


"nomadic archmagi" : I have stolen a friends idea and am running most magic shops and ventures as a consortium of entrepenurial mages (much stronger than the wimpy "Mercanes"), teleporting and shadow-walking about, trading items. Prices stay stable - competitors get "disappeared" swiftly.
Since they are all somehow linked, all being "cousins" (regardles of race, even the perceived one ) pi**ing one, means almost certainly pi**ing of all.

Refusal of service (any service) will then be the least of the characters worries.

Think "Bondsmages" from Scott Lynchs's novels for their ideas of one guild to serve them all.

So yeah, with a local "Mercantes" on site, getting a capable archmage (or whatever) into place really seems feasible


I would also think that the spellcaster(s) in question is/are somewhat nomadic/mercenary in outlook. This would fit very well with the tone of the setting - a high-level priest of Besmara surely does not sit around waiting for some adventurers to pass by and ask for some high-level magic. And surely, spellcasting can be had for the right price, which does not need to be monetary, given the setting. One point of plunder for every spell level, perhaps?


The ISWG has guidelines for Power Levels on page 253.

  • Standard: Level 1-5 - The vast majority of humanity, might have levels in NPC classes only.
  • Exceptional: Levels 6-10 - Includes a significant number of a nation's movers and shakers, heroes and notables.
  • Powerful: Levels 11-15 - Only a handful of such leaders and specially trained troops should exist in most nations.
  • Legendary: Levels 16+ - should be exceptionally rare, and supported with significant histories and flavor.

So a pre-legendary cleric can cast 8th level spells and probably doesn't require a write-up. The mention of "specially trained troops" seem to indicate that this category can include hypermooks who are just there to provide a mechanical challenge to the players. Available spellcasters seem to be the other side of the same coin. Judging by the 11-15 characters who appear in modules and scenarios, apparently the hand full of them is extremely large.


I'm using the NPC Codex for this, since most of the NPCs in there could easily be nomadic. For Port Peril specifically, I think that Alexi the Stern would have an agent in town who could contact him at need, possibly via ring gate. He would then react much as robin suggested above.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Jaerc wrote:
Besmara is a young goddess with few clergy. It does not surprise me that her most mighty priest is "merely" a legend (11th level). On the other hand as a goddess that is certainly pro-deception, it also wouldn't surprise me if her more powerful servants keep themselves out of the public eye.

Uh...she's not young. According to her deity article she 'predates the age of Enthronement by several centuries.' as a deity, and millenia before that as a spirit. She is thus definitionally older than Aroden or any god created by the Starstone, and around 5,000 years old as a deity in total.

And while her clergy aren't spectacularly common, they aren't uncommon either, as it's implied that most pirate ships have a priest in residence. And it certainly seems wrong that she'd not have a single priest anywhere in the world above 11th level...and if they exist anywhere, you'd expect the Shackles to be the place.

Since an adventurer can go to level 20 in a normal lifetime, she has been around long enough to have a level 20 cleric. Wanting to or being strong enough to grant 8th or 9th level spells is another matter.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Jaerc wrote:
A somewhat unrelated thought since its an island *port* metropolis, the person who casts 8th level spells, while statistically certain to exist in such a place at any give, may not be the same person twice in two days. Rather that slot could be filled with a parade of foreigners, whose location and desired prices are ever-shifting.
This, however, is indeed an awesome idea, and would work very well indeed.

+1

/cevah

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Skull & Shackles / Who casts the 8th level spells in Port Peril? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Skull & Shackles