So you got Ranger and Paladin which are full BAB classes with spells. Both are divine magic.
Why do you think they haven't done a Full BAB class that similarly uses Arcane magic yet?
Do you think it's just because Arcane is considered to be more powerful (Apparently)?
How would you make a full BAB class that has Arcane Spells similar to the Paladin or Ranger?
Yeah KK, that would be too much.
You would have to hand select every spell or you could be like the bard which considers some divine spells to now be arcane which takes up back to MiB's suggestion. :)
I've been thinking about it for a long time, but I don't really see it happening.
First off, you already have the EK and Magus. They aren't full BAB, but they're reasonably close. They're decent at hitting stuff and still cast pretty well as well. Another class along the same lines is going to be retreading this same ground.
Second, I don't think arcane spells work as well for the idea as divine spells. Having access to Cure spells mainly gives you access to using wands. When I've played both classes (Ranger, Paladin) I focused either on buff spells or swift action spells. There aren't a whole lot of the second type for arcane, so either that concept would need to be abandoned or you're just making new spells just for them anyways.
Buff spells are decent, but there aren't that many that are super useful on the arcane list for primary hitters. True Strike is nice, but full BAB classes tend to hit on their first attack anyways.
Offensive spells are kinda meh. Your saves are going to be lower, both to a lower casting stat and lower level spells. The wizard is casting 6th level spells, while you're casting 3rd or 4th at most, plus he has a much higher intelligence, so his save DC's are probably at least 5-7 higher than yours. Add in your reduced caster level and you have a harder time overcoming spell resistance and you also do less damage.
I think overall, you could remake the Magus. Lower casting to the Paladin/Ranger progression and give them full BAB. A few other things might need to be changed, but overall it's what you're looking for.
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Actually, EK is full BAB. Going Wiz 5/Fgt 1/EK means you're just 3 points of BAB short of 20 in the end, and given the way attack bonuses go in this game, it's not much of a biggie really.If you don't count the fact that half your career you're behind a full iterative attack and several points of to-hit, you're full-BAB!
But you get to implode universes and make civilizations un-exist in 1 round tops, 9th-level spells and all.
I've actually wondered why there isn't a Ranger Archetype that maybe switches out the spell selection for Bard spells. Something to support a straight shot into Arcane Archer. Yes, you can Magus now, but AA is such a classic, I like the old-school Ranger feel, you know?
Alright, for years now I've been toying with the idea of Blood Knights, but haven't taken the time to flesh them out. The thought was a full base attack d10 hit die class with paladin/ranger (we'll call this minor spell progression) casting and a sorcerer bloodline to boot. Magus came out and I kind of scrapped the idea because I wanted to channel the sorc powers and/or spells through attacks. Paizo beat me to the punch so I kind of shrugged and moved on.
If someone wanted to make a full base attack minor spell progression class then this may be the way to go. Magus is already Int based so this could be Cha based with little to no effort. The only problem is that almost every bloodline would need some attention to fit the class. You could probably just stick with the Magus spell list instead of reworking a whole new list and bonus fighter/caster feats to fill out empty levels.
The role of the class would end up being a self buffer that can craft their own magic arms and armor. You could even have an option for "blood magic" that sacrifices hit points for expanded spellcasting.
Tell you what. If someone doesn't beat me to it I'll write something up and submit it to d20pfsrd.com.
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I did a class for a Wayfinder issue called the Battle Scion. He's a fighting type that casts arcane spells but uses a Paladin style spell progression. The class was in last years PaizoCon issue if I'm not mistaken ...
Now that I'm near a full computer and not my iPhone, here is the actual link :
Wayfinder is a free download, so check out the Battle Scion if you like - the design goal was pretty much to create an 'arcane paladin' (not paladin in the lawful good, holy warrior sense; paladin in the full BAB warrior with additional interesting abilities that also casts limited, paladin progression arcane spells)
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There's also the Archon from Super Genius Games. Full BAB and a limited set of spells up to 6th level.
Sounds like we need an archetype for the magus (or bard) with:
-Diminished spellcasting (perhaps casts at half Magus level, rounded up?)
-Toughness bonus feat early on (to make up the difference between d8 and d10 hp per level)
-Treats BAB as Magus level (perhaps only with specific weapon(s)).
-Other replacements to fit your specific view of a full BAB arcane caster.
Would replacing some of the sorcerer's bloodline abilities by a full BAB be adequate ?
This is a great idea! I am formulating a plan...
A while back I was working on a full BAB class called the Wyrdknight, based around arcane-fuelled mobility and deceptive combat.
Alright, the Bloodline Knight is almost done. I went to see Brave last night and didn't get to bed until midnight, but the gist is there and I'll be able to finish it afterwork tonight.
A full base attack, minor spell progression class that has bloodline powers and can use "blood magic" to enhance spells and other abilities. Often ostracized because of how dark and icky their powers seem to be.
All apologizes for the delay, sadly this isn't my full time job.
PS. Umbral Reaver, I'd love to see the Wyrdknight statted up, the name alone intrigued me!
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PS. Umbral Reaver, I'd love to see the Wyrdknight statted up, the name alone intrigued me!
The original concept was something based around the idea of a paladin-like character bound not by honour and virtue but by fey pacts. Possibly weird and perplexing behaviour requirements (importantly, not disruptive to the players) that lead to powers. Paladin progression casting, perhaps somewhat modified to make it spontaneous.
I did a conversion of the old 3.5 Hexblade that I named as the Witchblade, which is a full BAB, arcane caster hybrid with spells of up to 4th level (ala Paladin and Ranger). The problem is getting the balance right, since many arcane spells are more powerful across the board than same level divine spells.
However, I have found that my Witchblade compares well to the Magus, the Paladin, and the Ranger. Not over-the-top, not weak, but sitting right in that sweet spot of fun to play with lots of options. It isn't the most powerful damage dealer out there, and it can't sling the most sought-after spells, but it serves as a role in that it is a debuffer, who impairs his enemies and makes his allies job that much easier. Sort of an . . . anti-bard in the view of one of the folks who commented and made a few suggestions.
Regardless, it is a fun class and has really contributed in the game that I run where my players enjoy it.
Feel free to use it if you wish and let me know what you think! (You can reply to the class itself in that thread, so as not to clog up this one.)
MA
Did I kill this thread? I am now sad.
MA