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I thought it would be about WH 40K RPGs. I should know better. Well, I just leave this link for you, then.


JMD031 wrote:

Yes, that is the case. Why take crappy generic daemons when you can have a full codex of daemons to use?

I've glanced over the CSM codex and there doesn't seem to be that many differences between the old codex and the new codex besides the fact that several of the old units changed in price, the addition of several new units and the addition of some special rules that makes them on par with regular Space Marines as far as having something like ATSKNF.

Chaos Lords and Sorcerers got the biggest changes because they now can make your favorite cult marines troops by taking a mark of chaos. So those of you who have Berzerker or Thousand Sons or Plague Marine armies, fear not, you can still do those, you just have more options if you want. They also cost less too and have more options.

The chart for Chaos Boons is interesting but it would totally suck to lose your 250+ point special character to spawnhood. The warlord traits are a nice addition and the decrease in points for the marks is really nice. Speaking of marks of Chaos you can take them on more units now so you don't have to just have the cult units to get a benefit. For example, you could put the Mark of Khorne on a unit of Raptors and essentially have berzerkers with jump packs. The only thing that really got worse in the codex was a couple of the special characters. Lucius would be great in the assault phase...if he wouldn't always be going against things that would negate his 3+ save all the time and he doesn't have an invulerable save so, he's pretty much worthless. You could potentially make a Chaos Lord that gives you the same benefit (allows Noise Marines to be troops) with an invulnerable save and probably cheaper than Lucius costs. At least Abbadon is still pretty BA.

I haven't seen my friend play yet, but he was telling me his entire list got more expensive but not significantly more effective. He's also disappointed in no longer being able to run 3 demons in HQ slots or take demon lords when allying with his IG. He was glad he could now justify fielding his chaos dreds (he has at least 9 of them) without worrying about them turning on his own units, and his chaos bikes may now be fielded in a chaos army list instead of using them with the marine codex. Unfortunately he can't make them troops.


I think that it is a lot better than the last codex. For one, we actually got new units. The last codex, we lost units and did not get anything to replace them, and lost abilities and anything that made chaos, chaos. In the new codex, they brought back chaos to chaos. We been having discussions about what we would like to see in the codex for the past five years. One of the things was more daemon engines, and more choices in how you can make your army. Plus, yes you can end up with a Chaos spawn, but you can also end up with a daemon prince. The follies with worshipping chaos. What I like is you can give marks to almost everyone but daemon engines and vehicles. This allows me to to make my Thousand Sons army with almost everything having the Mark of Tzeentch, which gives me a closer feel to what Thousands Sons should be.


No new updates from GW about what we can purchase next week. Leads me to believe that this will be a "pre-order the WD" week.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Drejk wrote:
I thought it would be about WH 40K RPGs. I should know better. Well, I just leave this link for you, then.

Well, the thread IS in the miniatures forum... :)


DeathQuaker wrote:
Drejk wrote:
I thought it would be about WH 40K RPGs. I should know better. Well, I just leave this link for you, then.
Well, the thread IS in the miniatures forum... :)

Link was in the messageboard's sidebar for the lastly posted threads.


So I suppose we can expect no new 40k codexes or minis for the rest of the year. There are some rumors that GW will be doing a Hobbit tie-in for December but beyond that it's all rumor and speculation.

Speaking of rumor and speculation, the next codexes for 40k are:
Dark Angels
Chaos Daemons
Tau or Eldar
Space Marines

This of course is all speculation and rumor and is subject to change on a whim. If previous years are any indication of the future then the most codexes they will put out in a year is 3. So likely Dark Angels, Space Marines and one other.

Personally I'm awaiting updates to the Tau but I understand that it might not come out for while and there are other armies that need updated more than the Tau.


Having been playing WH40k since first edition, I didn't really formalize a "my army" 'till around the 1.5 edition. And I settled on Orks, largely because a friend of mine was playing Space Wolves (who were seriously out of whack at the time.) Also, Orks were hilarious with their 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz books.

I don't think I won a single game with them. But against Space Wolves, nobody expected me to, either.

When 2nd ed (really just a formalized version of 1.5) rolled around, I switched largely to Chaos, though I kept up with my Ork warband as well. I think it was the 2nd ed Ork codex that re-imagined Orks into the much less hilarious version of Orks we have today, and I largely dropped playing Orks after it was released. Instead, my Night Lords army then proceeded to curb-stomp anything in sight (I remember one infamous 2,000 point battle against Tyranids where my only casualty in the entire game was 1 wound from a sorcerer), including the previously nigh-invulnerable Space Wolves. This eventually started getting a little stale, so...

When 3rd ed was introduced, I immediately switched to Dark Eldar. I felt like trying something new, the starter box was filled to the brim with plastic dark eldar miniatures and, despite the rather obvious Warhammer Fantasy port, they actually had some neat backstory. It also amused me how Dark Eldar, even in their own fluff, got beat up. Usually an army is at least cool in their own codex. Dark Eldar, not so much.

I liked 3rd ed's focus on basic troops over special characters (sure, it was a money grab, but it also made the game better IMHO), and I found Dark Eldar fun. They were incredible weak at just about everything, but if you played them just right you could pull some pretty cool wins (it helped that 3rd ed also introduced the battle objectives system. Dark Eldar would be horrible at a 'just kill everything in sight' scenario). During these days, I was most frequently playing against Imperial Guard, Crimson Fists, Tyranids and Eldar. Interestingly, I had the most success against Eldar.

Also, during 3rd ed, I tried my hand at Tau. I liked the shooty nature of their basic lineup, even if their lore kinda-sorta rubbed me the wrong way. However, when you have an army that is being chased across the map by Imperial Guard who want to stab you with their combat knives, it gets a bit silly. I played Tau because I liked the shooty stuff, but when even the most ill-suited-for-close-combat army wants to get into your face, it get kinda silly. So those got dumped right quick.

4th edition kinda passed over my head, as we were still busily playing 3rd ed and never realized a new edition came out (which, I suppose, was how it was designed). :p I own a copy of 5th Ed, but have never played it (stupid real life).

I used to have an ambition to build a Sisters of Battle army, but, well, then Matt Ward happened.


I loved the look and concept of the Tau, but they were broken, but only in ways that made them nearly impossible to play. They were supposed to be shooty, yet the Dark Eldar, Necrons, and even Orks could easily out-shoot them (did anyone ever actually stop to count just how many Big Shootas an Ork army can be outfitted with?). Their one melee unit was a joke, and their Elites choices were either underpowered or entirely too expensive.

All of this was (not really) balanced by excellent Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices, but they weren't enough. You just can't win when you're only reliable units are Gun Drones and Broadside Battlesuits (no matter how awesome they looked fully painted on the table).

I thought that the Sisters were also an extremely difficult army to play. Like the Tau, they relied on shooting, but unlike the Tau, they needed to be close. As in "close enough to be charged", without actually charging themselves.

The easiest army I played was my Iron Warriors...now THAT was a shooty army. I won't bore you with all the details, but I could take 27 lascannon shots a turn if I played it right. Eventually, my friends just flat-out refused to play against them.

I've been out of it for several years. If I had time and money, I might pick it back up.


+1 GW had the tendency to break their game on a regular basis with their expansions.

We started with WHB and switched to 40k when it was released, because it was more fast paced with fewer models (back then). Bought & Painted a 3.500 Pts Space Marine army (with a Predator Tank - hard to get model back then, alas it sucked) and then made a Squat troop because I really loved the Squat Trike model. Things got awol when this thrid party publisher release the Titan models for 40k and our Orc player bought a 30inch Gargant which I countered with a Warhound...

It was around this time that we switched to WH:Epic because imho it mixed the fast pace of 40k with the tacticalness of WHB and we liked that really.

I stopped playing like 15 years ago and I swore never to buy another GW produkt after what they did to Warhammer Online...


Just started collecting Dark Eldar.


That stuff about Matt Ward was hilarious.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Elbe-el wrote:


I thought that the Sisters were also an extremely difficult army to play. Like the Tau, they relied on shooting, but unlike the Tau, they needed to be close. As in "close enough to be charged", without actually charging themselves.

In 4th edition, which is largely when I played, they were challenging, but the versatility of faith points helped keep them survivable. The close-shooting range was difficult but there were ways to deal with it, and you could have strength in numbers and get folks to fire off enough even if they took casualties. Close combat was a challenge but dealable.

In 5th edition, close combat became much more brutal; in my personal experience, my army that worked fine in 4th was getting slaughtered in 5th, in large part because of Sweeping Advance (even though the Sisters' leadership is generally high), and what I was doing to help boost what close combat I had didn't seem to be helping. It didn't help that Sisters never got a codex update through the entirety of the edition.

I don't know what they are like now with the WD codex from last year and in 6th edition rules because I don't play anymore. I was getting frustrated with having to rework my army to get something that worked (without having to buy new models, as I owned a crap ton of Sisters), and everyone else I played with was dropping out of the hobby for a variety of reasons. I've heard mixed things, some good, some bad, some mediocre. I hope they are fun to play, and I will proudly hold onto my army, as I loved bringing the army together and painting it, even if it never sees combat again.


Elbe-el wrote:

I loved the look and concept of the Tau, but they were broken, but only in ways that made them nearly impossible to play. They were supposed to be shooty, yet the Dark Eldar, Necrons, and even Orks could easily out-shoot them (did anyone ever actually stop to count just how many Big Shootas an Ork army can be outfitted with?). Their one melee unit was a joke, and their Elites choices were either underpowered or entirely too expensive.

Big Shootas nothing. Lootas are disgusting. I think Orcs are the most broken shooting army right now. Between their toughness 7 grots (they take the toughness of the weapons they are manning), rediculous ammounts of str 7 shots with Lootas, and the most cost effective flyers in the game, Orc shooting is amasing. My friend started allying them with Tao and then realized he had better shooting without them. If people start fielding Land Raiders again, he may change his mind, but, other than that, there isn't a big reason for him to look for higher toughness shots.

As for Sisters, I really like the close in shooting of the army. Its a fun challenge. I find they are a solid list. Their heavy bolters give them decent range, they have enough melta or exorcists for poping vehicles, and they can have flamers everywhere. They are low enough cost to outnumber many other armies and with their 3+ saves they have decent survivablity. They have issues in kill point missions but do well with objectives. Their elite slots need a rework and are useless and I will only field them if I am out of slots, but both their fast attack and heavy choices are awesome.

Their big problems definetely come in assault. It's not worth paying for any power weapons in the army except on deathcult/crusader squads or unique HQ. The weapon skill and str of 3 makes everyone else do too few wounds to bother paying 10-15 points for a melee weapon. You're better off taking a combi-flamer on your Sister Superiors and shooting it in overwatch. In general, I do more wounds in overwatch with flamers than with the assault itself. This has the added advantage of killing the closest guys, so quite often I end up not in assault. The orc player I play against refused to assault me most of the time because of it.


I used to love 40k. Owned several armies and spent more money on GW then I ever care to admit. But after years of dealing with their changes and poor attitude, I gave up. I sold my armies and books and in the end felt a lot better. I did keep my Beastman IG squad and a couple of other figures that I paid to have painted well.

Overall I respect GW for their marketing and use of images to sell their "hobby". They have set the standard for others to follow. But I have held off restarting the hobby again.


This saturday, I am going to play my Thousand Sons vs. a friend of mine who plays Space Wolves. We will be fighting a 1500 pt battle. It is going to be fun, because every time we fight with those two armies, it is always brutal. Once, at the end, we had five minitures between us.


Lorm Dragonheart wrote:
This saturday, I am going to play my Thousand Sons vs. a friend of mine who plays Space Wolves. We will be fighting a 1500 pt battle. It is going to be fun, because every time we fight with those two armies, it is always brutal. Once, at the end, we had five minitures between us.

We shall look forward to a full battle report!

(please?)

:)


Oh just a little FYI for Tyranid players, some interesting Mini KickStarter. There are some troopers that could be used for imperial guard too.

Anyway, been a whiles since I had a game. Though I might get chance again soon.


Wow, it has been a while since anyone posted in this thread.

Couple days ago I got completely tabled in a 500 point game because my Tervigon was killed by a Dreadnaught. But I did get to blast my opponent's Rune Priest away with a Zoanthrope.


Wow, a 40K thread on my RPG forum.

Having been into pretty hardcore towards the end of 5th edition, even running a blog devoted to Chaos...my enthusiasm for it has pretty much died out. Everyone got really excited about 6th edition, but after playing several games, I found the ruleset to be clunkier than ever, and frequently would lose interest halfway through games. There are rules within rules within rules, and most of the time it came down to whoever spammed the most points-efficient units or rolled a lot of dice determining the outcome of the game. Just wasn't having a lot of fun with it, and the constant price hikes and tournament mentality just pushed me right out of the hobby. I generally play Warmachine when I get the chance to do a minis game these days, even though I'm not as big a fan of the models - the rules are much, much better for competitive play.

That said, I still like the miniatures - but at $115 for a plastic Wraithknight, I feel like I would rather spend my money on RPG books at this point. I'm really torn on whether or not to sell off my 5000 point Chaos army - it has actually appreciated in value since I bought most of it!

The ideal way to play 40K is to buy the miniatures for playing Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Dark Heresy, Only War or Rogue Trader! Just my opinion.


Well there's always the new skirmish wargame by GW veteran, Jake Thornton. Deadzone KS - requiring fewer mini's, it seems to be quite interesting and doing well so far.

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