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Petition: I nominate Ashiel to work for Paizo as Rules Consultant


Off-Topic Discussions

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Liberty's Edge

Yes, because a word often used described either of you is "concise"...


ciretose wrote:

Can I just say that I think it very fitting that this thread is full of random derailing tangents into theory craft.

It kind of makes me want to create a "Nominate Ravingdork for Rules Consultant Thread."

I can see it now. Volume 15 of 30 of the core rules comes out, each tomb over 500 pages...

You know, I think it is fitting. Some of the best ideas I've ever had for a story pr character come from tangents. My current wizard in a Kingmaker evolved from a tangent that was about what someone like Leonado Da'Vinci could have done with Magic. Now I've got a Wizard that is an inventor, designer, mathematician and painter, who also has access to Magic. I posted some of my ideas for magical items that my Wizard either plans or, has, or will be making in the future, in Ashiel's Magic Items for the Savvy Adventurer thread.

I haven't posted all my items in that thread, and I stopped posting when I noticed others stopped posting ideas as well. Suffice to say, I've got a lot of ideas for magic items that I would love to introduce via my Wizard Kyl. And all because a conversation went off in a tangent.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:

Unfortunately, I'm not a very big fan of WoW or MMOs to tell you the truth. Call me Elitist, but I don't like it when people refer to themselves as a Role-Player because they play WoW or SW:TOR or other such games.

Also, I've had so many friends that I used to play games with, just disappear because they were too busy raiding, or they had a clan meeting, or wanted to get their Paladin to 80 or something. I have a friend that played D&D for 30 years, suddenly drop off the face of the earth to play DDO, and that was sad. He was easily the best role-player out of all of us (different accents and personalities for every character). But, haven't seen him roll a die in some 3 years now.

Wow (no pun intended). O.o

I'm glad I haven't had those experiences. I probably wouldn't like WoW anymore either. I tend to play it with my offline friends from time to time, and we enjoy it kind of like we enjoy Diablo II (run around, find treasure, use teamwork to beat the bad guys, etc). It's kind of that thing we do when we're not playing D&D. We enjoy doing dungeons and such, but we've never really found much use in the almost crazy level of stressed raid times and such. I'm a big fan of WoW PvP though, because it reminds me of D&D combat, only way faster paced.

Playing WoW usually gets me anxious to play more D&D though. Same with my brother, actually. But the Warcraft universe is pretty awesome. I fell in love with it back in Warcraft III + Frozen Throne, for its awesome story and great lore (and the best Paladin fall ever). One of the first games where a villain was my favorite character. :o

It makes me sad to hear that you lost friends over a game though (any game really). I hope you have better luck in the future. (o_o)


Ashiel wrote:
Tels wrote:

Unfortunately, I'm not a very big fan of WoW or MMOs to tell you the truth. Call me Elitist, but I don't like it when people refer to themselves as a Role-Player because they play WoW or SW:TOR or other such games.

Also, I've had so many friends that I used to play games with, just disappear because they were too busy raiding, or they had a clan meeting, or wanted to get their Paladin to 80 or something. I have a friend that played D&D for 30 years, suddenly drop off the face of the earth to play DDO, and that was sad. He was easily the best role-player out of all of us (different accents and personalities for every character). But, haven't seen him roll a die in some 3 years now.

Wow (no pun intended). O.o

I'm glad I haven't had those experiences. I probably wouldn't like WoW anymore either. I tend to play it with my offline friends from time to time, and we enjoy it kind of like we enjoy Diablo II (run around, find treasure, use teamwork to beat the bad guys, etc). It's kind of that thing we do when we're not playing D&D. We enjoy doing dungeons and such, but we've never really found much use in the almost crazy level of stressed raid times and such. I'm a big fan of WoW PvP though, because it reminds me of D&D combat, only way faster paced.

Playing WoW usually gets me anxious to play more D&D though. Same with my brother, actually. But the Warcraft universe is pretty awesome. I fell in love with it back in Warcraft III + Frozen Throne, for its awesome story and great lore (and the best Paladin fall ever). One of the first games where a villain was my favorite character. :o

It makes me sad to hear that you lost friends over a game though (any game really). I hope you have better luck in the future. (o_o)

I have a friend who despises the game, but loves the lore and reads all the books. Gotta say, not a big fan of the Warcraft story line either.

I'm not expert, so my knowledge could be wrong, but it just strikes me as odd that the people who forged the peace treaty in Warcraft 3, and worked together to save the world, would suddenly turn on each other so shortly afterward even though the leaders are allies of one another.

Plus, I just don't like the fact that it seems every 10 minutes, the World of Warcraft is on the brink of destruction. Same reason why I don't like the Forgotten Realms setting. There's always so much bad stuff happening that it's just not possible for the people to have survived for so long.

I mean, you've got an 'Old God' manipulating everything, opening up planar rifts to send forth legions of demons into the world. You've got a continent of Undead ruled by some sort of immortal Lich King. You've got your former allies turning on you. It just seems every time they turn around, the people in Warcraft are facing insurmountable odds, but still survive 'somehow'. It breaks my immersion.

I do love the Golarion setting though. Sure, there's bad stuff there, but it's not on the same scale Faerun and Warcraft have. Sure, you've got Tar-Baaphon as an ever-present threat, the Worldwound is only barely being kept at bay, and the Eye of Abendego is a constant danger... But they also don't have the God of Magic dieing every 200 hundred years, or Planar Rifts opening with Demon-Blooded Elves, or Old Gods manifesting on the mortal plane killing as they see fit, or Undead Dragons that are so powerful their mere presence kills and reanimates you if you aren't strong enough etc.

I just find Golarion to be a more believable setting.


Tels wrote:

I have a friend who despises the game, but loves the lore and reads all the books. Gotta say, not a big fan of the Warcraft story line either.

I'm not expert, so my knowledge could be wrong, but it just strikes me as odd that the people who forged the peace treaty in Warcraft 3, and worked together to save the world, would suddenly turn on each other so shortly afterward even though the leaders are allies of one another.

WoW mechanics and such aside, I know what you mean. I was kind of disappointed with that as well. However, it's worth noting that there's a lot of racism between the Alliance and the Horde (mostly humans vs orcs, but since they're the primary races of both factions it tends to trickle down between their allies). The peace pact got broke because Admiral Proudmoore (a decorated war hero of the Alliance) started some s+*% off the radar by attacking Kalimdor (the primary lands of the Horde). He failed and was killed in the process, but crap hit the fan after that (it would be akin to finally making peace with your worst enemies, and then when your pants are down somebody bombed your temples or something).

Set everyone back a long way. That being said, I prefer the stance the Warcraft RPG and Warcraft 3 set, with multiple races working together for the betterment of one another. One of the things that has always pissed me off about WoW is that you see tons of NPCs shirking the ally vs horde deal, but you never get the option to say "screw the horde/alliance, I'm going solo". So much potential in WoW that they just flushed down the toilet (you have different languages in the game, and it wouldn't be hard to create quest lines where you explore the world and learn different languages, and making a neutral faction wouldn't be difficult either; since it's just a matter of faction ID numbers in the game). Some private servers actually include cross-faction friends, guilds, and parties.

Quote:

Plus, I just don't like the fact that it seems every 10 minutes, the World of Warcraft is on the brink of destruction. Same reason why I don't like the Forgotten Realms setting. There's always so much bad stuff happening that it's just not possible for the people to have survived for so long.

I mean, you've got an 'Old God' manipulating everything, opening up planar rifts to send forth legions of demons into the world. You've got a continent of Undead ruled by some sort of immortal Lich King. You've got your former allies turning on you. It just seems every time they turn around, the people in Warcraft are facing insurmountable odds, but still survive 'somehow'. It breaks my immersion.

Point taken. Though to be honest I don't think that the world has been on the brink of destruction that often. The only time I can think of that it was actually in really deep doo-doo was when Sargaras was trying to open the portal to the world and conquer it, but was fought tooth and nail by his slave Nerzul the Lich King and his forces, the Alliance, the Orcs, and the Night Elves (who weren't alliance at the time). The undead scourge kind of stopped being a brink of destruction sort of thing early on. More of a nuisance, and the Burning Crusade pretty much takes place all in the outer planes.

But to be honest, I'm not the biggest expert on the WoW lore exactly either. They keep changing stuff (which bugs me too).

Quote:

I do love the Golarion setting though. Sure, there's bad stuff there, but it's not on the same scale Faerun and Warcraft have. Sure, you've got Tar-Baaphon as an ever-present threat, the Worldwound is only barely being kept at bay, and the Eye of Abendego is a constant danger... But they also don't have the God of Magic dieing every 200 hundred years, or Planar Rifts opening with Demon-Blooded Elves, or Old Gods manifesting on the mortal plane killing as they see fit, or Undead Dragons that are so powerful their mere presence kills and reanimates you if you aren't strong enough etc.

I just find Golarion to be a more believable setting.

Agreed, actually. :P


Also, is it just me, or is there no ageing in WoW? Every time I try to read more on it, so and so will be alive at some point in time, but then some 3,000 years later, he's alive then, and so was everyone he was adventuring with then as well. It seems like every race and being in WoW is ageless and only dies when killed. Maybe they need those World Ending Calamities for Population Control :P

[Edit] I remember the attack on Kalimdor, but it still struck me ass odd that Jaina and whats-his-face the Warchief were still allies, yet their two respective kingdoms/alliances became hostile. They are leaders of the Alliance/Horde, yet they apparently have no control over their subjects.

Anyway, I think this is enough discussion on WoW.

Back to WoWing us with how awesome you are :P


I disagree with the notion that immersion is broken in Azeroth. If you ask me, it's just as broken in Golarion, if not even more so. Just compare the amount of fiends present in the setting to the amount in Warcraft. There are no devils or daemons in Azeroth, only demons to the same amount as in Golarion (near infinte armies). Both worlds have a lot of nasty individuals, but Pathfinder just kicks that up to eleven and absurdity (or audacity, YMMV).

Both worlds are occasionally threatened by ancient and malevolent gods as well, but it seems like over a half of the nations in the world at large are either evil (Cheliax) or in trouble (Nirmathas), while in Azeroth the main nations can actually defend themselves but just happen to bicker with each other from time to time. I also like the conflicts between allegiances (Night elves being arrogant even with their allies, Alliance vs Horde, goblins and gnomes actively bickering etc.) a lot more than the "area X has problem Y, while area B has problem F" approach Pathfinder has taken for Golarion, even if the same pattern does appear in Warcraft.

Then again, I agree with both of you in regards to all the retcons.

And yeah, Ashiel is awesome, but I also support Mikaze.


Icyshadow wrote:

I disagree with the notion that immersion is broken in Azeroth. If you ask me, it's just as broken in Golarion, if not even more so. Just compare the amount of fiends present in the setting to the amount in Warcraft. There are no devils or daemons in Azeroth, only demons to the same amount as in Golarion.

Both worlds are occasionally threatened by ancient and malevolent gods as well, but it seems like over a half of the nations in the world at large are either evil or in trouble, while in Azeroth the main nations can actually defend themselves but just happen to bicker with each other from time to time. I also like the conflicts between allegiances (Night elves being arrogant even with their allies, Alliance vs Horde, goblins and gnomes actively bickering etc.) a lot more than the "area X has problem Y, while area B has problem F" approach Pathfinder has taken for Golarion, even if the same pattern does appear in Warcraft.

Anyway, yeah. Ashiel is awesome, but I also support Mikaze.

I dunno, it just seems to more accurately reflect how things went in our world. I mean, certain areas (Britain and other areas on the North European coast) dealt with Viking raiders while other places dealt with Mongol Hordes. Then you have countries that were seriously affect by the Plague, while others were relatively free of it.

There's a lot of regional conflict in Golarion, but the conflicts themselves usually don't require the entirety of the world to band together and fight off a common enemy. The only things that happened like that in Golarion, are the Worldwound and Tar-Baaphon.

I mean, when you look at things, like the peaceful hostility of Nex and Geb, the Revolsts in Galt, the ever-changing boarders in the River Kingdoms, things aren't really that bad. Anytime **** hits the fan, the world responds accordingly, but they haven't really had many world changing calamities.

Just my opinion on things.

Mikaze is also cool. Like that lurker that only speaks occasionally, but when speaking, that lurker is always heard.


Tels wrote:
Icyshadow wrote:

I disagree with the notion that immersion is broken in Azeroth. If you ask me, it's just as broken in Golarion, if not even more so. Just compare the amount of fiends present in the setting to the amount in Warcraft. There are no devils or daemons in Azeroth, only demons to the same amount as in Golarion.

Both worlds are occasionally threatened by ancient and malevolent gods as well, but it seems like over a half of the nations in the world at large are either evil or in trouble, while in Azeroth the main nations can actually defend themselves but just happen to bicker with each other from time to time. I also like the conflicts between allegiances (Night elves being arrogant even with their allies, Alliance vs Horde, goblins and gnomes actively bickering etc.) a lot more than the "area X has problem Y, while area B has problem F" approach Pathfinder has taken for Golarion, even if the same pattern does appear in Warcraft.

Anyway, yeah. Ashiel is awesome, but I also support Mikaze.

I dunno, it just seems to more accurately reflect how things went in our world. I mean, certain areas (Britain and other areas on the North European coast) dealt with Viking raiders while other places dealt with Mongol Hordes. Then you have countries that were seriously affect by the Plague, while others were relatively free of it.

There's a lot of regional conflict in Golarion, but the conflicts themselves usually don't require the entirety of the world to band together and fight off a common enemy. The only things that happened like that in Golarion, are the Worldwound and Tar-Baaphon.

I mean, when you look at things, like the peaceful hostility of Nex and Geb, the Revolsts in Galt, the ever-changing boarders in the River Kingdoms, things aren't really that bad. Anytime **** hits the fan, the world responds accordingly, but they haven't really had many world changing calamities.

Just my opinion on things.

Mikaze is also cool. Like that lurker that only speaks occasionally, but when...

Yeah, I love Mikaze too. Also Set, so much Set. And TriOmegaZero. :3

Speaking of conflicts, Hobgoblins have gotten a lot of love in my home games/setting. They are not quite the mindless hatemongers that they are depicted as in most settings. Instead, their culture is strange, and seems to make a stranger sort of sense. Their militarism is in many ways an adaptation of survival, and they've learned to drop most things that are seen as impractical. They have an almost cold logic to even art. Hobgoblins may learn music because they know music affects the mind, and those effects can be practical. They have no use for sexism because it is a waste of time and divides the unity of a clan. They are violent and wage war frequently, because it is both a great method of acquiring resources and culling their overbearing populations (yes, in the grand scheme of things, hobgoblins sometimes fight to kill off their own numbers; and some believe that hobgoblin warlords fight with dwarfs primarily to give their people an enemy so they don't turn on themselves).

Hobgoblins have learned through practicality that it's easy to take what you need from others. Be it the land, or other cultures, and so forth. However, they also know that taking too much will lead to the resource drying up. Because of this most are nomadic and move about in cycles to improve the flow of game as a food source. Some who stay in locations longer, do so because they've found a nice community that they can raid for supplies and slaves. What that community might not realize is that the hobgoblins prize the community for this. A hobgoblin tribe in the nearby mountains may come and attack a community, seemingly taking off what they can carry. In fact, they may take slaves and food, but will generally leave enough that they won't kill the community (that way they can raid it again later). However, if say an orc tribe came along and began to harass the village, the villagers may never know, but those orcs are going to quickly find the village under the unseen protection of the hobgoblins. Almost like a sort of mafia. You don't fleece the guys the hobgoblins are fleecing. Get it? :P

They also have their own social taboos. The most noble and respected of the elves (the drow actually, at least at the time) kind of stabbed them in the back and nearly led to their extinction at the gates of hell, and they haven't forgotten it yet. The believes elves are both unsuitable for trusting (because the most noble of them betrayed them) and blame them for nearly destroying the world (which is kind of true since the gray elves sort of brought about a near apocolypse); so they don't like either elves nor arcane magic as a society. Hobgoblin sorcerers, wizards, and witches are collectively known as tainted witches or "reked lofa". They live on the fringes of society and are kept around mostly for their usefulness by hobgoblin leaders who employ their services (but the general populace doesn't trust them).

That leads to the witches becoming more fringe as they experiment in new ways that are further offputting to the rest of the hobgoblins. For example, hobgoblin courtship actually involves beating the s&@$ out of each other in martial combat (if a guy or gal wants their way with a prospective mate, they usually do it with martial challenges with the defeated submitting to the winner's will). However, most of the witches are never challenged, which would seem like a blessing to most humanoids but in hobgoblin culture it's actually pretty damned insulting. This causes the tainted witches to often seek companionship with other humanoids, and given that they are already somewhat fringe from their tribes (and thus their traditions) seem to take a great liking to non-hobgoblin humans (including elves which only further ostracizes them from their people, but seem seem to actually like that after a while). Some of the witches may even keep harems of slaves of different cultures. Many of the female witches wear a piercing somewhere on their body (typically the ears, since they have long ears) for each slave consort they have in their ownership.

Hmm, what was I talking about again? I think I went from talking about hobgoblin border relations to talking about social taboos and witches. Hmm, I'm so prone to tangents...


Ash, the WoW Warlock stuff looks awesome.
If you could work up an entire class based off of this, I'll join your cult!
:P


Kryzbyn wrote:

Ash, the WoW Warlock stuff looks awesome.

If you could work up an entire class based off of this, I'll join your cult!
:P

Hm.... >.>

*opens up OpenOffice* <.<...

*shifty eyes*


I actually like hobgoblins a lot myself, and your description is pretty close to how I'd run a larger hobgoblin community in my own games, Ashiel. The emphasis on pragmatism and even including the details to how the dislike for the arcane arts is reflected among them. As for WHY they'd hate arcane magic in my own setting is a thing I haven't gotten to detail just yet (will probably have something to do with elves, though).

And again, agreeing on the awesomeness of people like Set and TriOmegaZero. Hell, I've even grow to like Gorbacz in some ways.


Hmm,I seem to remember reading something about tangents recently... But the Walls of Text (TM) seem to have blotted it from my mind.

BTW, did you know that Ashiel, the All-Father, has Wall of Text as an at-will Spell-like Ability? True story.


You know, if I ever make my own setting, I think I'll have to have people hate arcane magic because of a race other than elves.

Maybe Halflings. No race seems to hate Halflings for anything.

[Edit] I bet it's cause they're small, crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.


Tels wrote:

You know, if I ever make my own setting, I think I'll have to have people hate arcane magic because of a race other than elves.

Maybe Halflings. No race seems to hate Halflings for anything.

[Edit] I bet it's cause they're small, crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

That's the definitely the reason I love them. :3

Quote:
BTW, did you know that Ashiel, the All-Father, has Wall of Text as an at-will Spell-like Ability? True story.

Still trying to get high enough to get it quickened, 'cause the casting time is super balls. XD


Hmm, odd question, how does one pronounce 'Ashiel'? I've always pronounced it Ash-ee-el. How does everyone else pronounce it?


Ashiel wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

Ash, the WoW Warlock stuff looks awesome.

If you could work up an entire class based off of this, I'll join your cult!
:P

Hm.... >.>

*opens up OpenOffice* <.<...

*shifty eyes*

The warlock was the best themed class in WoW imho.

I loved to play it, and affliction warlock were hella fun in PVP.


Tels wrote:
Hmm, odd question, how does one pronounce 'Ashiel'? I've always pronounced it Ash-ee-el. How does everyone else pronounce it?

According to the entymology Ashiel has used before, i'd say it's ASH-EE-el.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Icyshadow wrote:
I actually like hobgoblins a lot myself, and your description is pretty close to how I'd run a larger hobgoblin community in my own games, Ashiel. The emphasis on pragmatism and even including the details to how the dislike for the arcane arts is reflected among them. As for WHY they'd hate arcane magic in my own setting is a thing I haven't gotten to detail just yet (will probably have something to do with elves, though).

Interestingly, I didn't set out to have them hate elves during the thinking process. They were historically allied with the drow (who were the most respected of all the races for their purity and nobility). Later the gray elves (who were the most magically advanced of the humanoid races, and had build massive floating cities) were busy playing with fire (kind of a frankenstien story there in the "things science wasn't meant to do" sense) ended up screwing the world pretty bad because they opened some planar gates without some precautions first (got a little arrogant and a little hasty and skipped a step or three) and ended up flooding the world with outsiders. In fact, the leaders of the "sky elves" actually are the ones who destroyed most of their sky cities in an attempt to destroy the planar gates along with them (this led to the literal fall of the sky cities which make up many of the dungeons across the world). Some of the portals -- the largest of which became known as the Hell Gate -- survived the impacts and continued to spilled evil outsiders into the world.

Now that didn't make hobgoblins immediately hate elves. They were still buddy buddy with the drow, and the drow elves and the hobgoblins were allied to move against the demons and try to close the Hellgate, but little did the hobgoblins realize that the grand prime-queen of the drow (a near ageless being of eternal youth, blessed with a sort of immortality by the original gods countless years prior) had found her ear to the succubus queen of one of the most powerful demons involved in the invasion. Turned out that when the drow were supposed to come over the hill and be the cavalry and support the hobgoblins, the queen had made different arrangements behind the scenes and left them for dead (and ended up creating a civil war in the drow peoples in the process, but that's another story). Now before I go further, there's something that must be pointed out...

There are no noncombatant hobgoblins in Alvena. Women and children are taught to fight and expected to from an early age. The children aren't as strong as the adults (the women are scarier than the men truthfully) but they have an almost unnatural willingness to bloody a blade with either an enemy or themselves. So when I say that the hobgoblin people went to fight the hordes of the hells, I quite literally mean the hobgoblin people. The whole people. Man, woman, and child were there waging war with them. The thing is, they were expecting re-enforcements (let's face it, even with the dirty focus-fire tactics my guides are famous for, there is only so much 1st-5th level hobgoblins can do against evil outsiders), and were left high and dry by the ones they trusted the most. It nearly drove them to extinction.

However, the hobgoblins were finally re-enforced by their long time enemies and rivals the dwarfs (who were also allied with the drow, and when the drow broke into civil wars the dwarfs took up the slack) came to their aid. But it left a bitter taste in their mouths and memories. Fortunately, hobgoblins breed hella-fast, so they're not nearly on the endangered species list anymore. :P

Quote:
And again, agreeing on the awesomeness of people like Set and TriOmegaZero. Hell, I've even grow to like Gorbacz in some ways.

I like Gorbacz too, but I don't think he knows it. :P


Also, Ashiel, I own all of the DSP stuff, so feel free to psion it up.
We can handle this via PMs too, if you want.


Tels wrote:
Hmm, odd question, how does one pronounce 'Ashiel'? I've always pronounced it Ash-ee-el. How does everyone else pronounce it?

It can actually be pronounced two ways and neither are wrong. Ash-ee-el is the way I pronounce it, but you could pronounce it Ash-I-el and it would be fine too. In fact, it's more of an accent thing.


Kryzbyn wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

Ash, the WoW Warlock stuff looks awesome.

If you could work up an entire class based off of this, I'll join your cult!
:P

Hm.... >.>

*opens up OpenOffice* <.<...

*shifty eyes*

The warlock was the best themed class in WoW imho.

I loved to play it, and affliction warlock were hella fun in PVP.

I love affliction warlocks as well. :3

EDIT: But I actually play a Discipline priest and Warrior mostly. :3

Also, no need for PMs. It's fun discussing both settings and development. I'll post a rough draft on the WoW conversion thread when I get some of it done.


I was in a rediculously high level Dark Sun campaign (I know, redundant) once where all the characters were between 20th and 30th level. We were each vying with each other and with the dragon kings to take over Athas. I completely broke the game with simulacrums. I had simulacrums sitting around scrying on the other players, simulacrums set up as envoys to other cities, and a bodyguard of 10 simulacrums whenever I left my home. My character never went to a meeting... it was always a simulacrum that was psionically dominated with clairvoyance and clairaudience up and I also spent a lot of time and money creating golems and undead. They were my grunt troops. Silly game but a lot of fun.


I had this idea to create a Golem that looks like a skeleton, but is made out of, say, adamantine, or some other metal. Then, make the Golem radiate Evil for the purpose of Detect Evil (while not actually being Evil). This would be used to trick a Paladin into blowing his Smite Evil on the Golem, who wouldn't be affected. I would also make the Golem an 'Intelligent Item' with a dedicated purpose to the caster that created it.

I think I'd get a lot of poop eyes for it though.


boldstar wrote:
I was in a rediculously high level Dark Sun campaign (I know, redundant) once where all the characters were between 20th and 30th level. We were each vying with each other and with the dragon kings to take over Athas. I completely broke the game with simulacrums. I had simulacrums sitting around scrying on the other players, simulacrums set up as envoys to other cities, and a bodyguard of 10 simulacrums whenever I left my home. My character never went to a meeting... it was always a simulacrum that was psionically dominated with clairvoyance and clairaudience up and I also spent a lot of time and money creating golems and undead. They were my grunt troops. Silly game but a lot of fun.

Haha. Yeah, I said I'd do something like this if I was a D&D wizard in reality. A single 13th level wizard could take over the whole dang world.

Quote:

I had this idea to create a Golem that looks like a skeleton, but is made out of, say, adamantine, or some other metal. Then, make the Golem radiate Evil for the purpose of Detect Evil (while not actually being Evil). This would be used to trick a Paladin into blowing his Smite Evil on the Golem, who wouldn't be affected. I would also make the Golem an 'Intelligent Item' with a dedicated purpose to the caster that created it.

I think I'd get a lot of poop eyes for it though.

Haha, nice. I love talking about constructs. Recently the idea of intelligent item constructs has had my brain bubbling with ideas. Speaking of which, a sentient construct + alter self at will could allow you to create a robotic family member.


LOL

You could do things like on imposter...where you have a cannon golem that looks like a family member of your target...has no idea that it's not the family member of your target...then upon meeting the target BOOM.


Ugh, could you imagine if everything we've plotted about in this thread were unleashed in a game? Undead Controller with a legion of minion's including Ghaele Azatas, Undead Adepts, Graveknight Anti-Paladins, Undead Zombie Lord Monks, Skeletal Golems and now Doppleganger Cannon Golems?

Would be an interesting campaign.


I'd think you;d end up with paranoid schizo characters. And maybe players.


Turned on DirecTV, flipping through channels, saw Starship Troopers 2 on. I've never seen it before, but heard from everyone that it's awful. So I hit play, and, though half-way through, I can tell it's bad. But it brings a question to my mind, you think a bulette's stats would match up to the 'Bugs' in the Starship Troopers universe?

[Edit] On second thought, reduce the bulette down to large, and I think it'd match. Maybe apply the young template?


ciretose wrote:
Yes, because a word often used described either of you is "concise"...

When it comes to mechanics, darn skippy.


Tels wrote:

Turned on DirecTV, flipping through channels, saw Starship Troopers 2 on. I've never seen it before, but heard from everyone that it's awful. So I hit play, and, though half-way through, I can tell it's bad. But it brings a question to my mind, you think a bulette's stats would match up to the 'Bugs' in the Starship Troopers universe?

[Edit] On second thought, reduce the bulette down to large, and I think it'd match. Maybe apply the young template?

It's been a very long time, but I think ankhegs would be a good basis for both the zerg and SST bugs.


While similar, I think the Ankheg more closely resembles the Zerg. The SST Bugs were more brute force and powerful limbs, which is what made me think of the bulette. It's got he Powerful Bite ability and 2 claws, which is very similar to how the Bugs from SST act, and sometimes, they'll make extra attacks, similar to a bulette and leap.

I'm feeling a Bug invasion is appropriate in the future. Some of my group have been itching for some sort of play (we haven't played since March/April as we normally take summers off). Thinking about having them fight off a swarm of Ankhegs/SST Bugs (young bulettes)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

I am perfectly aware of the existence of Geb.

Geb is also the most magical nation in all of Golarion, with tons of high level undead who can command middle range undead who can command mindless undead, without needing to resort to class levels and training everyone as adepts (and most of the spellcasters are undead, too). Only Nex rivals them for magic...and NEx uses constructs, instead.

Its lowest class is also the living people, which means instead of taxing away the food production to feed themselves like human nobles do, they just sell it. It doesn't mean the peasants live any better, however. They are just raw materials for making more undead, after all.

Because what do the undead do with the money? They buy slaves to make more undead...and to feed on, of course. Geb is one of, if not the biggest, buyers of slaves around. Gotta keep them hungry undead mouths fed.

Geb's productive not because they use undead labor, they're productive because they don't eat most of the food they can produce, because half the population (the half NOT farming) isn't alive to need it.

And yes, mindless undead skels and zoms are still evil. It's PF canon, take it for what you like. I believe the collective term is that all undead hunger, and it is a hunger that can never be sated.

Note on the brown mold: A nice trick in a dungeon, but brown mold dies when exposed to sunlight, so you're probably not going to be marching them out on a battlefield. Also note a simple Sleet Storm spell and various cold spells/alchemist frost will clear them off, and the enemy is going to have magic, too.

Zombies can rot, too...several templates are based on changes to zombies over time, dessicating, mold growing over them, etc. When a zombie's flesh finally falls off, you get a skeleton that can also wear out over time. Not to mention direct sunlight is not beneficial to most undead. There's creatures in PF that will eat undead flesh without a problem...there's a dragon that does so exclusively!

As for negative energy...there's plenty of examples of living creatures in the books being corrupted by negative energy or learning to live off it by one means or another. IN 3.5, Tomb-tainted soul is a feat that allows normal humans to do the same.

Template abuse has been around forever. I'm reminded of the Gnome wondercrafters who could create x hd of mechanical beasties, but there were no rules stopping them from layering on template after template. It could get pretty sick pretty quick. 3.5 Pseudonatural template, anyone? Or Paragon, if you wanted to get really nasty?

=============
The Siege undead in Tsar are actually credited to their makers in the book.
Their origins were of a city that eschewed the gods in their war against the titans, and the LE god of war decided to make use of them. His people came in, slaughtered the entire city, and from each corpse built three undead to help carry on the war against the forces of the Titans (I may be mixing stories). It didn't pay to stay neutral in that campaign world...

==Aelryinth


Ashiel wrote:
(and the best Paladin fall ever).

Right? RIGHT?

I love the places WoW went with Cataclysm, lore wise. It definately feels like a world at war, at last. Leveling up is a joy (which is all me, being a lore junkie, did anyway), they fleshed out all the tidbits they'd skimmed over on Azeroth the first time, and the game itself is a lot more polished. So why can't I PLAY it anymore? **heavy sigh** The deserted RP servers and lack of oceanic RP servers are probably contributing factors, but I never really sunk my teeth into the last expansion. (I got an orc to level 40 and relentlessly mined the soundtrack before I rememebered I never use background music in my sessions.)

What do you do to set the mood at the table, Ashiel?

EDIT: And while we're gushing, Evil Lincoln, DM Dudemeister and Greycloak of Bowness make the AP forums awesome, AWESOME places to lurk. Set and Kevin Andrew Murphy are the kings of awesome setting ideas (though whoever made that "First World Witchmarket" thread is pulling up a close third). AbrahamSpalding still gets props for this thread.

In short, this is actually the first messageboard I've ever bothered to join because the community is so awesome and I just had to jump in and mince ideas with them.

Scarab Sages

Tels wrote:
I had this idea to create a Golem that looks like a skeleton, but is made out of, say, adamantine, or some other metal. Then, make the Golem radiate Evil for the purpose of Detect Evil (while not actually being Evil). This would be used to trick a Paladin into blowing his Smite Evil on the Golem, who wouldn't be affected. I would also make the Golem an 'Intelligent Item' with a dedicated purpose to the caster that created it.

Golems are pricy. If you want the Paladin to use up his Smite Evil before getting to you, use a Candle of Invocation to gate in a bunch of demons or something. (If you're 12th level, for instance, three 7 HD Shadow Demons, or a pair of 12 HD Glabrezu, will fit within your 'less than 12 HD, individually, less than 24 HD, in total' requirements.)

He'll smite that. Or possibly die. Either way, it's cheaper than a golem, faster to craft, and occasionally humorous.

You can also just summon or planar bind demons (devils, daemons, qlippoth, whatever), but summoning is temporary, and not every Paladin will waste a smite on something they've figured out is gonna be gone in 10 rounds anyway, and Planar Binding / Allying has all these squiffily defined price tags attached... Two things you never want in the same scenario are 'fiends from the lower planes' and 'poorly defined contractual obligation.'

Casting Infernal Healing or Greater Infernal Healing (possibly Extended, possibly from a wand or potion or something) is a fun way to make someone who isn't evil detect as evil. Charm / suggest / dominate some neutral (or even good) person to guard you from the 'misguided knight who thinks I'm a bad-guy!', and cast Infernal Healing on them as the Paladin enters the room. He detects them as evil, goes all righteous fury, and, oops, kills an innocent dupe (and wastes a Smite).

He probably won't fall or anything, because his god is probably smart enough to know that you totally tricked him and that any harming of innocents done in this encounter is totally being applied to *your* karma, but it's still one of those things to do that makes being evil it's own reward.

It's possible that a clever use of illusion magic could eat up some of the Paladin's resources as well (tricking him into smiting a weaker evil minion creature, by disguising it as a much, much scarier evil creature). Clerics of evil dieties are good for radiating auras of evil all out of proportion to their own power level (even if they themselves aren't evil). Disguise one as an outsider, through whatever shenanigans, and a 5th level neutral cleric could be mistaken for a 10 HD [evil] subtype outsider.


Oh I know that the Golem isn't very financially sound, but that's not the point. Sometimes, I just like tossing different things at my party and watching how they react.

For instance, when I was GMing Curse of the Crimson Throne, my party decided, instead of investigating the plague, they wanted to have a little hack and slash fun for awhile. So they went to the Grey District to go slumming with undead.

F*@+ing disaster that was. For me anyway.

I sent a party of 5 5th level people up against 17 ghouls, 34 skeletons and 16 zombies, almost at the same time, and they nuked them. I think I did a total of 18 damage to them at all. Combination of good rolls on their part, bad rolls on mine, and good tactics. But they had a blast.

Later on, I tossed together an encounter with 'different' skeletons. I used the Graveyard Map Pack (specifically, this one) for an encounter. With the exception of the two yellow dots at the bottom, every yellow dot was, I think, a 5 HD Bloody Skeleton, wearing a breastplate, a heavy shield, carried a longsword and a longspear. There was also a 9 HD Bloody Skeletal Champion with a mithral breatplate, a +1 heavy shield, 3 masterwork javelins and +1 vicious bastard sword (the party was also low on loot so I tossed in some goodies to sell/keep).

Now, this was my own game, so I had these Skeltons special. They were ordered to follow the commands of the Skeletal Champion, and each of them volunteered to protect the mausoleum for eternity. As such, they were Lawful Evil skeletons, and because of the Champion, fought somewhat tactically.

They wouldn't really pursue people outside of the mausoleum, but they would protect it at any cost. The closest Skeletons closed around the door. The ones that would be upfront first, threw their spears and then drew their swords as they moved to form a horseshoe defense around the door. This never allowed more than 2 people to be attacking at a time, but each person would have at least 3 skeletons attacking them as the ones in the rear would attack over the front skeletons' shoulders with their longspears.

The champion attacked with the Javelins then closed up with his bastard sword when one of the skeletons 'died'. This little group of skeletons whooped the parties ass. They fled the fight, but swore revenge. When they encountered the Pharasmites again (they Pharasmites came out to investigate what was going on with all the fireballs, spells and sounds of battle they heard when the party stopped the horde of undead), they told them about the mausoleum but the Pharasmites mentioned they were under specific orders from the Castle not to slay those skeletons as they were placed there, willingly, to protect for eternity. They weren't happy, but were warned there would be dire consequences if the families guardians were destroyed and the destruction could be linked back to the church. The Party decided that they shouldn't destroy the guardians as that could bring harm to the church.

Seven Days to the Grave:
I also had Lady Andaisan comment on finally getting to destroy the fools that disturbed her families resting place. When the Party learned this, they were all too happy to return and smash everything in the mausoleum.

The party later went back at 9th level to seek revenge, but even then, they still had a lot of trouble dealing with all of them.

One of my favorite encounters, and my party no longer looks at skeletons as fodder. They also have a tendency to be worried if I ever custom build an encounter, because they know it will probably be a bit more dangerous than the ones published. Which is true, I play my bad guys smart if they should be played smart.


I'm TRYING to follow that Charm Person thread. ciretose wasn't kidding when he said it was guaranteed bucketloads of replies. Was there ever any concensus or official response? Not that that's the be-all an end-all, but I've read enough of the discussion for a lifetime. What's come out of that thread?


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Twigs wrote:
I'm TRYING to follow that Charm Person thread. ciretose wasn't kidding when he said it was guaranteed bucketloads of replies. Was there ever any concensus or official response? Not that that's the be-all an end-all, but I've read enough of the discussion for a lifetime. What's come out of that thread?

Nothing really. No one's view point has changed at all. Hell, despite tons of evidence and assertions from different posters, Ciretose is still arguing that Charm Person = Magical Diplomacy, nothing more.

Anyway, I've largely stopped posting in that thread. There is no more arguing, it's just slamming your head against a wall, and repeating yourself 10,000 times because no one wants to read the full thread. It's annoying.

Whenever I see a thread like that, if I have a point to make, I'll either read the full thread, or search it to see if my point was already made. The number of times a different poster jumped in to point out 'they aren't an automaton' only for me to point out 'I agree, they aren't an automaton, because an automaton doesn't have free will, nor does it resist my spells, or question my orders, it simply does as it is told'. Then people will drop the automaton point, and bring up something else, for use to refute that point, and then bring up something else, and refute that point and suddenly we're talking about not being an automaton again.

Just an endless circle of people who focus on only one aspect of the spell to prove their point, completely ignoring the other aspects of the spell or charm rules.

I simply got tired of going in circles.


Yeah, that's what I found. I favourited one of Ashiel's posts purely as a bookmark only to never find the urge to return. I feel like I have a better understanding of the spell, however, so I definately took something away from it. If I ever get to play my sorcerer again it'll definately stop being wasted space!

Although my new RotR PDFs may be a contributing factor. If only they hadn't bankrupted this poor penniless student! I'm thrilled for the real product to come out so everyone can join in the gushing, but they pretty much filled in all the gaps I stumbled on as a first time GM, so I can't wait to reboot my game and finish Skinsaw Murders. I'd love to have a chance to take it from the top, but my players arent quite as keen on the idea. They'd probably shoot a certain NPC on sight!


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Twigs wrote:
Yeah, that's what I found. I favourited one of Ashiel's posts purely as a bookmark only to never find the urge to return. I feel like I have a better understanding of the spell, however, so I definately took something away from it. If I ever get to play my sorcerer again it'll definately stop being wasted space!

Glad to hear it. ^.^

Quote:
What do you do to set the mood at the table, Ashiel?

It greatly depends. If I have my way about it, I'll either play no music, WoW soundtrack music (the vanilla wow OST has some pretty good instrumentals that fit different locals very nice), or I'll find something on YouTube. I've become very fond of Two Steps From Hell for dramatic music, particularly in combat. Instrumentals are pretty good to loop. Also, most any of the music from Baldur's Gate I & II is really good background music for setting certain moods. The Midnight Syndicate is good too. If you want to use music in your tabletop games, I'd highly recommend using a laptop and perhaps some custom playlists (this way you don't have to search for your music as you go).

Sometimes my players play some music of their own that's completely unrelated to the game (sometimes taking turns playing different songs ranging from various Metallica song to stuff by Tatu), but as long as it's not actively distracting from the game, the ambiance can improve the overall aura of the room. In all cases, I recommend not turning the music up too loudly (I mean you definitely don't want to drown out everyone's talking at the table! :P).

Now when I'm GMing online? Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference. Since my players don't have to listen to my music ('cause it's on my end of the internet), when describing scenes in the game I'll give them links to the recommended music for the scene in an OOC bubble. Meanwhile, I'll be listening to either that same scene music, or something drastically different. I've GMed entire games to the looping of Poker Face. Or Won't Lie Down. Or Lindsey Stirling. When I'm GMing online like this, I tend to take music I feel like listening to, looping it, turning it up (not loud enough to be a nuisance!) and just let myself drown in it while I write in the chat-based environment. It doesn't take too long before I can keep a very smooth visual of everything that's going on in the game as if watching an animation of the events as they occur.

I recommend experimenting and see what works for you and your group. Some people don't like music at the table, others do (I not my friends love it when I keep a Star Wars playlist for when I run Star Wars). Some people prefer props or ambiance decorations (I've seen some pretty amazing decorations on the internet before). Some people like using solid 3-dimensional dungeon tiles, custom maps, or miniatures. Some prefer using some paper (graph or blank) and drawing out scenes as they occur in little swift scribbles. My group doesn't have a lot of miniatures and tend to have big combats, so we use lots of excess dice (like mono-color d6s you can buy at Walmart for really cheap) in place of miniatures ("The orcs are marked by these red D6s, their slaves are the blue ones."). Others have great luck with tabletop projectors connected to laptops so that you can quickly load maps into programs such as Adobe Photoshop or GIMP and provide your players with a dungeons that you can use fog of war (a cool trick is using 2 layers, a semi-transparent layer for dim light, a darker one for dark light, and black for unexplored).

One of the benefits I've found of using dice to mark NPCs, is you can give rough estimates of how much punishment they've taken thus far. Not RAW at all, but most GMs are perfectly willing to give you a visual estimate of how much oomph something has left in it. Even in games like Baldur's Gate, enemies didn't display their HP like PCs did, but if you moused over them they would give rough estimates such as Uninjured, Barely Injured, Injured, Badly Injured, or they would be Dead. When using dice, we give provide this sort of rough estimate of damage by turning the D6s. 6 = uninjured, 5 = barely injured, 4-3 = injured, 2 = badly injured, 1 = Dead/Incapacitated. A d10 could be used for % instead (but we have more d6s than d10s).

Some enjoy making props. Occasionally I'll write a note or something in OpenOffice, apply a background texture and cool font, and print it. A cool trick for making props that is mentioned in the 3.x DMG is the use of using tea to age paper. If you make some tea, you can pour a very small amount out into a pan or plate, and then wet the prop paper in it, then let it dry. The paper should dry without being sticky (unless you have way too much sugar in your tea, and technically sugar isn't needed if you're just using it for props, but I like drinking tea) and it gives it a nice aged look. You can also tatter it up a bit, or char the edges of the paper (wet or dry) using an electric stove or oven, a candle, or a lighter, and immediately dousing the flame (possibly in the tea). This can give a piece of paper an appearance of being through hell and back (might be good for scrolls and such as well).

Remember/Warning: Making props should be done by adults or with adult supervision, and all safety precautions taken (especially when involving fire or kitchen appliances).

If you pre-prepare paper to have aged or damaged appearances, you can leave them blank and then write stuff on them yourself. If you go with this option, you can use a calligraphy pen to give it an appearance more in fitting with themes. This can allow you to write out notes from employers or important NPCs, or even as the occasional magic scroll.

Such things can add some extra prep work to the game so it isn't for everyone. In fact, I don't generally have the time to do any of that (or I might have the time but I always end up using it for other things; but I might take the time if we were doing an exhibition game, or special occasion sort of thing).

========================================
It also just occurred to me that Grimmy asked about Baldur's Gate for his brother for Mac or PSX, and I think I forgot to give him the answer!

You can run the PC version of Baldur's Gate I & II on Macs by using a software called WINE (and I think WINE exists for linux based computers as well). It's a windows emulator, and should allow you to run PC software on a Mac (some high end games still have issues, but honestly it's pretty cool). WineHQ.org is where you can find it, and they have an application database showing popular PC RPGs that will run with Wine (including BG & BG II).


Sweet idea with the D6s. I'm also a big fan of the WoW soundtrack. Lots of hidden gems, and the various incarnations of inn music will forever make me nostalgic (as will Dun Morogh's theme, I've made more Dwarves than I'd like to count). My games have historically largely been run on maptool, but I've recently taken the plunge to run it in person and it's definately worth the extra effort. I do miss the fog of war though. I LOVE being able to use darkness rules and fog of war over the VTT, but my group is pretty well opposed to it. It was notoriously buggy and often I had to turn it off mid dungeon because certain NPCs wouldnt turn visible or what have you, and it hampered rather than helped the mood. I love the suspensful edge it brings to combat, though. I'd love to find a way to incorporate it. Maybe some day.

And we're all adults here. Cant imagine fire would make for a great prop, but I've always fancied the idea of playing at a campfire for a session. Or putting together a real journal instead of a printout. And I must find a way to do bloodsplatters... hrm...

As for BG, they're also being remade in the coming months and a quick search says it'll run on a mac. You will however miss out on GoG.com's amazing prices, but them's the breaks. I'm midway through the original and progressing slowly, because I can never keep myself from pressing new game every few weeks to try out something else. I've been loving the plunge into 2E AD&D. Combat begins to feel a bit repetitive and I'm fairly bad at micromanaging, but finally beating those tricky fights that take 8 or 9 tries is worth it every time.

Unfortunately I can never get Khalid and Jaheira to square of with Xzar and Montaron (who by far have my favourite voice sets in any RPG I've ever played) because I'm running it on the Tutu engine. It's a shame. I'd love to see the brawl. Also I'm constantly frustrated that nobody uploads the sound files to youtube, I'd love to be able to chuck a link or just play em on demand.


Here's the the discussion on Charm Person

Everyone please FAQ!

Also if you do visit that thread and read the initial post you might be confused as to why the topic is FAQ worthy. That's because as presented it wouldn't be. You have to read further to see people like me chiming in to clarify our position since Tels grievously and woefully misrepresented it when he created the thread.

We all know about the second part of the description of the Charm Person spell, we only differ on the questions of

+whether situational modifiers should be applied to the opposed charisma check,
+whether to do so would be GM Fiat, a house-rule, or just the way the spell is intended to be handled,
+whether it is reasonable, because of the similar wording, to refer to the diplomacy skill for guidelines on what modifiers to apply to the opposed charisma check, and
+what constitutes "obvious harm"

Scarab Sages

Twigs wrote:
And I must find a way to do bloodsplatters... hrm...

I like using melted red candlewax for splatters. It clings nicely, has a good color (which, granted, isn't the brown of real aged blood, but thanks to Hollywood and it's bright red old blood, 'looks realistic' anyway).


Hey Ashiel! Did you ever do a compilation of best uses for the Summon Monster series of spells, with the best choices at each level, or the most creative uses for the summoned creatures?


Twigs wrote:

Yeah, that's what I found. I favourited one of Ashiel's posts purely as a bookmark only to never find the urge to return. I feel like I have a better understanding of the spell, however, so I definately took something away from it. If I ever get to play my sorcerer again it'll definately stop being wasted space!

Although my new RotR PDFs may be a contributing factor. If only they hadn't bankrupted this poor penniless student! I'm thrilled for the real product to come out so everyone can join in the gushing, but they pretty much filled in all the gaps I stumbled on as a first time GM, so I can't wait to reboot my game and finish Skinsaw Murders. I'd love to have a chance to take it from the top, but my players arent quite as keen on the idea. They'd probably shoot a certain NPC on sight!

Twigs don't give up on that thread. Contrary to what Tels said there is a lot of productive discussion going on there, with me, Ciretose, Serum and GrenMeeera having come to something like a consensus in the grey area between the two extremes.


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I did indeed misrepresent your guy's side, but I should point out, those things you quoted didn't really come into play until after the thread was made.

For the most part, the initial argument was between Ciretose and myself over whether or not you could give someone orders, and if you win the opposed charisma check, the order is followed (within the limit of course). As long as the order isn't suicidal or obviously harmful, that order will be followed.

I should point out, that despite just about everyone an order can be given, Ciretose is still saying that an order can't be given, because the spell is only Magical Diplomacy, and, based off his posts, is not in any sort of 'grey area' between the extremes.

What I meant with the round and round bit.

Someone comes in and quotes 'automaton'.
I refute 'automaton'.
Person quotes 'obvious harm'.
I agree, no 'obvious harm' but what constitutes 'obvious harm'?

We argue what could or could not be 'obvious harm' before agreeing to disagree.

Person points out it's not compulsion.
We point out it's not compulsion, it's magically skewing their perception of reality and brainwashing.
Person then says it makes the person 'friendly'.
I agree, but then it gives the option to go above and beyond 'friendly' by giving orders.
Person then says I can't give orders because they're not 'automatons'.
Repeat.

That's what I meant. I know some people are looking at the whole spell, and coming to a decision, but a lot of people are only focusing on one aspect, and disregarding the rest of the other sides argument to stand their argument on.

By the end of the circle, the person arguing what Charm Person is, forgets or disregards 3/4ths of our argument at any one time. Anytime we try and do something like post the entirety of our argument, the opposing person reads 1 paragraph, disregarding the rest. Either that, or we get stuck back in the 'obvious harm' dispute.

I mean, for the most part I think most everyone agrees that Charm Person:

  • Makes a person 'friendly' for the purposes of Diplomacy
  • Can be persuaded to see a point of view via Diplomacy
  • Can be ordered to do something within the constrains of that magically skewed perception of view
  • Cannot be ordered to do anything suicidal or obviously harmful
  • Is allowed an opposed check to ignore the order, and another saving throw if they're violently opposed to the order. (because they are resisting, they are not an automaton)
  • A GM can assign penalties or bonuses as he sees fit for the rolls. But since those penalties or bonuses are dependent on the GM, they cannot be counted on for the discussion itself.

I don't think anyone is still debating those facts. What is still being debated, is the meaning of 'obvious harm' and Ciretose is still campaigning that Charm Person is nothing more than Magical Diplomacy.

This is, of course, all subject to my view point. This is how I've seen and interpreted things so far, so things are biased by my own stance. If I'm incorrect somewhere, please point it out.


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Hmm.....

Magical Lineage trait
Wayang Spellhunter trait
Merciful Spell feat

5th level Wizard Evoker with 18 Intelligence prepares...

1)Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball
2)Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball
3)Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball, Merciful Fireball

Not very practical, but hilarious! The other thought I had was to pick Scorching Ray, start preparing second level Empowered Scorching Ray, 0-level Merciful Scorching Ray, or 1st level Disruptive Scorching Ray for castys.

If I wanted to get really mean, come 10th level, 0-level Intensified Shocking Grasp for the Magus...

[Edit] Elemental Spell - Acid

Split the damage between Flame and Acid.

Cast Flaccidball?


Lame sauce. I wish Hero Labs would 'implement' those two traits. I was gonna roll up a Spellbinder Elf Wizard and pick some of the 'more better' control spells, but Hero Labs hasn't implemented the two traits, and I would love to see a character sheet that had Merciful Fireballs in every slot.


Ashiel, I have to thank you. I remember seeing Lindsey and Peter's Skyrim video after Malukah became extremely popular, but forgot about her. I've finally taken the time to listen to all her songs and she's absolutely BRILLIANT!

When I first saw Malukah's videos, the first thing I did was share them on Facebook, the second thing I did was stat her up in Hero Labs for my use as an NPC (trying to talk my GM in Kingmaker into a possible marriage with her... I know, it's sad, but it is a fantasy game). Now I'm thinking of doing the same for Lindsey, except as a player.

I'd like to work with my GM and see if I can't get some sort of special bow (violin bow, not archery bow) that I can enchant to act as a weapon and an instrument. The thought of her dancing around the battlefield, casting spells with her music, inspiring her allies, and stabbing a monster through the eye with her bow is just too good to not pursue. Gonna have to think about how to do that. I've got an idea, but it's more of a concept then anything factual at the moment.

Hard pressed to pick my favorite Bard now...


Tels wrote:

Ashiel, I have to thank you. I remember seeing Lindsey and Peter's Skyrim video after Malukah became extremely popular, but forgot about her. I've finally taken the time to listen to all her songs and she's absolutely BRILLIANT!

When I first saw Malukah's videos, the first thing I did was share them on Facebook, the second thing I did was stat her up in Hero Labs for my use as an NPC (trying to talk my GM in Kingmaker into a possible marriage with her... I know, it's sad, but it is a fantasy game). Now I'm thinking of doing the same for Lindsey, except as a player.

I'd like to work with my GM and see if I can't get some sort of special bow (violin bow, not archery bow) that I can enchant to act as a weapon and an instrument. The thought of her dancing around the battlefield, casting spells with her music, inspiring her allies, and stabbing a monster through the eye with her bow is just too good to not pursue. Gonna have to think about how to do that. I've got an idea, but it's more of a concept then anything factual at the moment.

Hard pressed to pick my favorite Bard now...

In Disney's Robin Hood, the minstrel shoots an arrow from his lute in a manner similar to a bow. It seems like you could probably have fantasy string-instrument weapon, like a bow with multiple tightly drawn enchanted strings. Perhaps adding a ghost sound or summon instruments spell to a magic item would be a good way to pursue this sort of thing?

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