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Windy Escape


Rules Questions


I believe this spell would need to be cast before the player knows whether or not the attack would normally have hit. Do you all agree?

Thanks!

Windy Escape
Level: 1
School: Transmutation [air]
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
You respond to an attack by briefly becoming vaporous and insubstantial, allowing the attack to pass harmlessly through you. You gain DR 10/magic against this attack and are immune to any poison, sneak attacks, or critical hit effect from that attack.

You cannot use windy escape against an attack of opportunity you provoked by casting a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using any other magical ability that provokes an attack of opportunity whenused.

Appears In: Advanced Race Guide

Silver Crusade

I see nothing in the description of immediate actions to say this--they can be used at any time. Generally, a spell/ability will say if you need to use it before knowing the result.

At the same time though, what you say is logical. You shouldn't be able to avoid the attack after it has hit you. By a raw reading of the text though, you can.

Taldor

Well as a first level spell that's a nice defensive spell.

Let's look at it.

The must be aware of the attack to use this spell. If your flat-footed either from not having acted in combat yet or the attacking being invisible (or some other effect,) this spell can't help. You also only get one swift/immediate action per round, so its important to remember that.

Now for outside of those situations it looks like the answer is no. Nothing about an immediate action or the spell in question says anything about being able to interrupt damage. If the attack succeeds, they deal damage. It isn't like in games such as Magic the Gathering where you enter the damage step and resolve the stack. There is no between spot from getting hit to taking damage for it to sneak into.

So you can do it in reaction to being swung at, but not in reaction to being hit. At that point it's too late, at least from what I'm seeing in the combat chapter. You definitely couldn't use this in response to being sneak attacked, crited or poisoned. Which is totally fair as it is only a first level spell so there should be limits to its effectiveness.

Silver Crusade

Morgen wrote:
Nothing about an immediate action or the spell in question says anything about being able to interrupt damage

I'll give you that much. There will certainly be people arguing this in sessions because a little line left out of "you can/can't use this ____".

If it came up in my game, I would probably rule that it has to be used before the result of the roll is known.


You respond to an attack by briefly becoming vaporous and insubstantial, allowing the attack to pass harmlessly through you. You gain DR 10/magic against this attack and are immune to any poison, sneak attacks, or critical hit effect from that attack.

You cannot use windy escape against an attack of opportunity you provoked by casting a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using any other magical ability that provokes an attack of opportunity when used.

...with this + a arcane bonded item I could do so once...or more if preppared of course u cannot use it vs anytime you used magic, but you could avoid a attack of opp if you used accrobatics, too avoid getting near a opponent, for say a touch attack, that you held,...


No, you find out if it is going to hit you before you cast it.

Sczarni

Given that there are other abilities in the game that redirect attacks after they've already been determined to hit one's AC (like deflect arrows or that feat that requires Bodyguard as a prerequisite) I don't see why this spell wouldn't be any different.


How many people feel like this spell is WAY over powered? Last night a sorcerer used it against the party and they cried foul pretty loud. The argument for why is that there is no other spell of first level that gives such massive DR. I’m not completely convinced it is over powered… Thoughts?


Morgen wrote:
You definitely couldn't use this in response to being sneak attacked, crited or poisoned.
Windy_Escape wrote:
You gain DR 10/magic against this attack and are immune to any poison, sneak attacks, or critical hit effect from that attack.

The spell specifically calls out crits, poisons and sneak attacks as things you become immune to. How could that work if it can't be used in response to those things? Why would it specify them like that?

Morgen wrote:
The must be aware of the attack to use this spell.
Morgen wrote:
Nothing about an immediate action or the spell in question says anything about being able to interrupt damage.
Pathfinder_PRD wrote:
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.

Nothing about this says you need to be aware of anything. Any time makes it seem like it can interrupt anything it damn well pleases.

Do I think it makes sense that you can respond to an attack you are not aware of? No, that seems kind of mad. But, by RAW, it absolutely can be used after an attack hits, but before damage is rolled.

EDIT : Made a mistake, see my post further down.


Pretty sure you cannot do immediate actions while flat.

As to when you can cast the spell when aware. I cannot say. Looks like when the attack starts. Before you even know if it hit. But wouldnt be too game breaking if its after you know you are hit

The text i would have expected was "after the attack has been confirmed, but before damage is dealt."

Mirror image looks like a much better spell.


Skull wrote:
Pretty sure you cannot do immediate actions while flat.
Pathfinder_PRD wrote:
You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

You're quite right, my bad. It would not protect you from attacks during the surprise round or before you have acted in the first round of combat. Hence, it would not protect you from sneak attacks if you were flat footed.

However, I still argue, based on the text of the spell, it would protect you from crits, sneak attacks based on flanking/denied a Dexterity bonus to AC but not flat footed, poisons, attacks from invisible creatures, and could be activated after the hit is made, but before damage is rolled. Divine Interference is an example of another ability which interrupts between the hit and damage steps.

Actually, is flat footed being denied a Dex bonus to AC? I know you are denied your Dex bonus to AC when flat footed, but are you flat footed any time you're denied your Dex bonus? I don't think so, but I may be mistaken.

Kntshade wrote:
How many people feel like this spell is WAY over powered?

I definitely think it's a good spell, but not overpowered. It's DR/Magic, so the first level spell Magic Weapon would overcome it. So would any spell damage. It's also instantaneous, so it only applies to the one attack. Any other attacks still work just fine. Finally, it's a Sylph only spell, limiting it further.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you are Flat-Footed, then you loose your Dexterity bonus to AC. However, not every situation where you loose Dexterity bonus to AC are you considered Flat-Footed, ex. Blinded condition.

This spell is not too over powered in my opinion.

Just like the ability to deflect a ranged attack with Deflect Arrow or deflect a melee attack with the Crane Style line of feats while fighting defensively, you need to be aware of the attack to use the immediate action AND you do not have to take the immediate action until AFTER you know whether the attack hit or not.

If you want to rule it otherwise, then you may, but that would be a houserule.


There are immediate spells that can be used after an attack misses, such as Gallant Inspiration. I don’t see any reason why this one shouldn’t be usable after an attack hits or crits or whatever.

It’s a pretty cool spell. It negates a solid amount of damage from one attack a round, at the cost of a 1st level spell slot and a swift action. It combines well with other spells that defend against melee attacks regardless of AC, like Mirror Image. Overpowered, though? Naw.

Shadow Lodge

Sadly, only slyphs can take it. At least in PFS. That limits what would otherwise be an awesome spell to something that can almost never be used.

Andoran

It is a pretty powerful spell. The bard in my campaign uses it often. I hasn't been game breaking though.

My biggest complaint comes down to the "and are immune to any poison, sneak attacks, or critical hit effect from that attack."

There isn't a clause about this only applying to things that fail to overcome the DR or to not applying to magical weapons.

This spell can be used to cancel out any creature's poison attack, can't it? That's pretty nice for a first level spell. Did the ninja just move up and flank you? Canceled! High level fighter with a falcion? You better believe I am Windy Escaping all over that!

I usually like to make my monster's attack rolls out on the open (I don't use a GM screen). I have to watch the player because if they see a 19 or 20 come up, that would be the best time to windy escape.

To avoid this, I've asked my player to phrase his action when attack as "I am going to Windy Escape the first attack that hits me."

Since he often has mirror image and/or displacement up, I didn't feel it would be fair to make his cast windy escape before knowing if the attack even hit, as most attacks early in the fight don't get through.


I think I'd rule that anyone (not just Slyphs) can use it. As a DM I like the spell, however, I would rule that you have to cast before you know if you are hit or not. This would make it possible for someone to get you to cast it with a feint and waste your spell. If they have improved feint, they could attack you that same round and get their sneak attack damage to stick (if they were a rogue).


The Sweater Golem wrote:

My biggest complaint comes down to the "and are immune to any poison, sneak attacks, or critical hit effect from that attack."

There isn't a clause about this only applying to things that fail to overcome the DR or to not applying to magical weapons.

Looking at the spell, I see what you're saying. And it's RAW, though I reckon it probably isn't RAI. You could argue that the caster in question is now an insubstantial, vapourous form, and not the physical body that the attack was originally intending to hit. So, for sneak attacks, the vital spot no longer exists, so to speak, hence why sneak attacks don't work. There is no longer a physical body or blood stream to poison, hence the poison element. Crits, I don't know, maybe a reasoning similar to sneak attacks, the lucky hit or soft spot that explains why a crit does so much more damage no longer exists.

The Sweater Golem wrote:
This spell can be used to cancel out any creature's poison attack, can't it? That's pretty nice for a first level spell. Did the ninja just move up and flank you? Canceled! High level fighter with a falcion? You better believe I am Windy Escaping all over that!

In fairness, a high level fighter/ninja has iterative attacks. Creatures usually have multiple natural attacks, claws, bite, tail, etc. Windy Escape only blocks one attack, and you can only take one immediate action per turn, so it can only protect him from one attack per turn. And unless you have a 15 minute adventuring day (in which case any caster will break the system down anyhow) he'll run out of Windy Escapes quick enough if he's using one every turn of combat.

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