Liam ap Thalwig |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to gather the ideas tossed around in several threads about expanding the monks 's pool in a separate thread (this one).
Let me start by tossing around the following suggestions:
Expanding the ki pool:
- ki pool is monk level + Wis modifier
- Scaling feats and vows: Extra ki gives +4 ki points; favored class bonus gives 1/2 ki per level; vows give double the ki
More options to spend 1 ki point as a swift action (might be gained at higher levels only):
- insight bonus to attack for one round (+2)
- insight bonus to damage for one round (+2)
- bonus of +4 to the monk's DR for one round
- bonus of +4 to the monk's Will saves for one round
- (level 13+) SR+4 for one round
- (level 8) make an additional 5 foot step this round
- (level 12) make two additional 5 foot steps this round for 2 points of ki (not stackable with the power gained at level 8, of course, as both are alternative swift actions)
More options to spend more ki per round:
- wholeness of body: heal more hp by spending more ki; heal as a swift action by spending one additional ki point
- abundant step: increase range by spending additional ki; take someone with you by spending more ki (this might not be fitting for an inward directed power like ki, though); either make it a real move action (not ending your turn) or allow spending 1 extra ki for that
Other options to spend ki:
- at the beginning of combat spend 1 ki for +4 on initiative
- spend 1 ki on a successful stunning fist attack to increase the DC by +2; same for punishing kick
- protect against scrying for 1 day (or whatever) for 4 ki points
zagnabbit |
I've used a houserulred Ki point expenditure that allows for a 10' step (or 2 5' steps) as a swift action. I've had this in place for at least 2 years.
I've come to the conclusion that it is somewhat limiting. I'd have the 10' step tied to fast movement if I were to rewrite it, I'd require the unarmored and unencumbered conditions for it to work.
With that done I'd allow for a Ki Point burn to allow an additional 5' of movement as a swift action.
By removing it as a swift Ki action, the monk can still incorporate the mobile combat theme with some of the cool Ki abilities. It adds versatility and strengthens the backhanded augmentation that is increased speed. It's slightly more powerful but thematically appropriate.
Liam ap Thalwig |
I've come to the conclusion that it is somewhat limiting. I'd have the 10' step tied to fast movement if I were to rewrite it, I'd require the unarmored and unencumbered conditions for it to work.
With that done I'd allow for a Ki Point burn to allow an additional 5' of movement as a swift action.
To make sure whether I understood your revised proposal correctly:
- the 10' (or 2x 5') step is gained at monk level 4, has the same restrictions as fast movement (unarmored, unencumbered) and can be used at will in place of a normal 5' step without having to spend ki
- as a swift action costing 1 ki point the monk can make an additional 5' step
Sounds nice!
Liam ap Thalwig |
Instead of expanding the ki pool the monk could gain the ability to reduce ki costs at higher levels.
Two alternative ideas how this might be done:
(a) simply spend 1 ki less (minimum 1 ki)
(b) enter a ki trance as a swift (or standard?) action by spending 3 ki points and then be able to spend 1 ki less (minimum 0 ki) for a duration of e.g. 1 minute or 1 round per level
LoreKeeper |
I agree that the monk doesn't get as much mileage out of his ki points as the magus gets out of his arcane points, but I think the suggestions are altogether too powerful as a collective. As such I think the best way to use them is to wrap them up in an appropriate archetype that gives up some balanced abilities.
Liam ap Thalwig |
LoreKeeper, do you think that the many options would be too powerful? Or do you mean the proposals to increase the number of ki points or the latest suggestion to instead gain a temporary increase at higher levels? Or is it individual powers that you think are too powerful?
I tried to keep the spirit of the existing ki powers, especially the very short duration (1r) and the activation as a swift action for almost all of them, so you can't use two powers in parallel.
Just curious.
Liam ap Thalwig |
Thanks for the tip, Kolokotroni!
I like Inner Focus, Kip Up and No-Shadow Step.
Arcane Arts and Meta Ki would fit a prestige class combining ki and arcane magic I've been thinking about (because it would fit the role of my current monk character who serves the god of knowledge and magic and aspires to join a special monk order dealing with searching for and retrieving lost artifacts and hunting down renegade mages :-)
I'm not sure whether those ki powers are not too powerful, though.
The others are either similar to core monk ki powers or too anime or wuxia like for my taste (flying etc.).
Liam ap Thalwig |
Just realized something in another thread about ki powers that I'd like to mention here as well:
the 1 round duration of ki powers (instead of having them last for several rounds or minutes) has the key advantage of requiring no bookkeeping at all. Just choose your power, deduct its cost and you are done. No counting of remaining rounds for enhancement, AC, speed whatever. Simple.
That's why I like the 1 round duration.
TheRedArmy |
Just realized something in another thread about ki powers that I'd like to mention here as well:
the 1 round duration of ki powers (instead of having them last for several rounds or minutes) has the key advantage of requiring no bookkeeping at all. Just choose your power, deduct its cost and you are done. No counting of remaining rounds for enhancement, AC, speed whatever. Simple.That's why I like the 1 round duration.
There's definitely something to be said for that. But I would rather some bookkeeping to create a playable class than the other way around.
I picture the Monk as a mobile fighter, striving for perfection of his art. I would emphasize that theme with all the abilities of the Monk. You can't fix just one or two things - the entire class needs to be rebuilt, have a clear, defined role, and you can build archetypes from there.
What role you want the class to fill in the first place is your own business. But I picture a mobile, stylistic fighter. The style feats did wonders for making Monks seem like awesome martial arts masters. Flurry of Blows is completely anti-mobile, as you need to be still to do it. I would like to see a new Monk based around mobility, combat maneuvers, and the different styles presented in Ultimate Combat.
Dabbler |
Just realized something in another thread about ki powers that I'd like to mention here as well:
the 1 round duration of ki powers (instead of having them last for several rounds or minutes) has the key advantage of requiring no bookkeeping at all. Just choose your power, deduct its cost and you are done. No counting of remaining rounds for enhancement, AC, speed whatever. Simple.That's why I like the 1 round duration.
However, swift action economy means you only have one ability running per round. Hence more ki abilities means less benefit than might appear. While agree that less bookkeeping is good, it also means less functionality.
Liam ap Thalwig |
However, swift action economy means you only have one ability running per round. Hence more ki abilities means less benefit than might appear. While agree that less bookkeeping is good, it also means less functionality.
That's where the following suggestion comes into play:
At, say, 9th level, be able to activate two different swift ki powers as a single swift action, e.g. extra attack AND bonus to AC. The monk still needs to spend both ki points.
At, say, 14th level, only pay 1 ki point for such a combo (or pay the most expensive power used if wholeness of body should become usable as a swift action).
Might be lower levels (I did no evaluation yet which levels might be appropriate).