Vanities: Porter


Pathfinder Society

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Scarab Sages

I have a question regarding porters and carrying capacity. Before I spend the PP on one, is this just treated for mechanical reasons like a sort of increase of carrying capacity? What if the porter is carrying an item I need in combat, etc.

And if it's purely flavour, is there anything truly stopping me from just saying I spent 5pp to spend a bunch of time figuring out how to affix my gear to me so I got used to carrying more stuff? :P

5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West

It's different mechanically, as retrieving something from another person takes a different set of actions. Grabbing something from a porter (we just assume he has it out and ready for you to grab) is a move action, and you have to be next to him while you grab. That would also provoke attacks of opportunity.

If you were considered having higher carrying capacity, you could move and draw a weapon, and not provoke. If it's a lot of weapons that you're carrying around, perhaps consider an Efficient Quiver?

Grand Lodge 5/5

Porters do not participate in combats. I just assume they run and hide during battles. It's really up to each GM how easy it is to retrieve items from your porter so expect table variance.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

Please be also aware - sometimes there is nowhere to run and hide. My wizard has a Globe of Invu;nerability, Lesser - prepared for his porter to stay save in.
Didn't help in a recent adventure when he got affected by a curse and slowly his wisdom drained until he was an extra weight to carry.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thod wrote:

Please be also aware - sometimes there is nowhere to run and hide. My wizard has a Globe of Invu;nerability, Lesser - prepared for his porter to stay save in.

Didn't help in a recent adventure when he got affected by a curse and slowly his wisdom drained until he was an extra weight to carry.

Hm, I was under the impression that they were not able to participate in combat or other events at all, not even as a casualty. Is this not correct?

Grand Lodge

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Jiggy wrote:
Hm, I was under the impression that they were not able to participate in combat or other events at all, not even as a casualty. Is this not correct?

That was what I was always led to believe.

Grand Lodge 4/5

One of my players has a porter.

Its just there. Its not on the battlemat, he can't access it during the fights and it is just a pack mule in between combats. That's all it is.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

sveden wrote:

One of my players has a porter.

Its just there. Its not on the battlemat, he can't access it during the fights and it is just a pack mule in between combats. That's all it is.

This ^

As a GM and a player I've never had my porter or ones that I've come across in play contribute or be involved with any combat.

They don't occupy squares, they don't have actions, they don't *do* anything. That said, as a player, you can't expect to retrieve items from them in combat, or use them for cover

They're non-combatants.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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So they poof into the same hammerspace that most familiars seem to?

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Can they preside over the funeral when your PC dies?

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

4 people marked this as a favorite.

The idea behind the porter was that it was a sort of Nidwick character that, as mentioned above, isn't even there at all during combat, but can carry back the heavy statue that the Str 8 Wizard needs to bring home to complete his faction mission, or who can lug around a second set of armor for the fighter who is worried his current suit will get sundered or who may want to switch to his other suit for a given encounter or adventure.

Scarab Sages

Then that needs to be spelled out even more specifically, so that people will stop making ridiculous assertions about what it means.

I understand that a porter may not be able to actually take place in melee combat, but, if I'm having him carry a ten-foot pole, I should be able to get that ten-foot pole from him whenever I want it, and not be barred from accessing it. Or if the equipment that I have him carry happens to be a torch ...

This whole "no mechanical benefit" thing seems to be taken pretty far overboard. I understand that they can't take actions that affect combat, but ... They don't occupy a square? I think this is getting out of hand. They're somehow magically impervious to harm? I get that we don't want to give them stats, because it they can die, then a player loses the benefit of their hard-earned PP. But, it's beginning to follow a pretty silly line of logic, where it's becoming more and more far-fetched to explain how they work. It's gotten to the point that we now have people purporting that we can't even access our own equipment that the porter's carrying.

I get that the porter's not for bearing shields, or affecting the outcome of combat, but if I can't even have a porter carry a torch, or allow me to use equipment while rounds are being tracked, I think that I am going to report that porter to the local chapter of the Teamster's Union, and demand my money back ...
... or, in this case, ask for my Prestige Points back.

Grand Lodge 4/5

It's already been FAQed for months.

5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West

W. Kristoph Nolen wrote:
I understand that they can't take actions that affect combat, but ... They don't occupy a square? I think this is getting out of hand. They're somehow magically impervious to harm?

Their occupying a square affects combat. It affects where people can and cannot move. Sure, they aren't affecting HP totals of anyone, but in order for them to not affect anything, they need to have to be completely gone during combat.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

My opinion is that there seems to be a disparity between what was intended with the Porter as Mark Moreland noted and what the FAQ actually says.

David is mostly correct. The Vanity NPC's aren't "present" during combat, because having them occupy a square grants a mechanical effect on combat.

However the FAQ also states that you continue to receive the benefits of the Vanity. Which means that I get 300 pounds of additional carrying capacity, in combat.

The fact its a little dude carrying my stuff is just fluff.

But with Mark's clarification above, my initial interpretation of the FAQ seems to be incorrect, and that any gear carried by the NPC, during combat, is not available.

It will be interesting to see if this is further clarified.

Scarab Sages

Michael Brock wrote:
It's already been FAQed for months.

This FAQ isn't particularly helpful with the porter, because they provide a tangible benefit (enhanced carrying capacity) but there's no ruling on when or how gear is accessible from them. I get it may be a bit stupid to say "Oh my Str 8 wizard decided to wear full plate, but he has a porter so he isn't encumbered!" but for a high str character this could matter hugely during combat. It does seem like there's a bit of discrepancy with the porter and the faq.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Fair enough. Let's clear up any ambiguity. The vanity NPCs are not available and not accessible during combat. As soon as the GM advises to roll initiative, then the vanity NPC fades into the background and is not available to help swap out equipment, serve as a meat shield, or any other benefit.

Scarab Sages

That makes sense! Though perhaps it's not the greatest for me, the Drunken Brute who was planning on having a bartender porter to carry several hundred pounds worth of ale on him. Thanks for the clarification though!

Grand Lodge 4/5

Stonecunning wrote:
That makes sense! Though perhaps it's not the greatest for me, the Drunken Brute who was planning on having a bartender porter to carry several hundred pounds worth of ale on him. Thanks for the clarification though!

Forget the porter. He has to find just the right drink for the occassion. Use a certain magic item and you can draw the exact right drink to your hand everytime. :-)

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Stonecunning wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
It's already been FAQed for months.
This FAQ isn't particularly helpful with the porter, because they provide a tangible benefit (enhanced carrying capacity) but there's no ruling on when or how gear is accessible from them. I get it may be a bit stupid to say "Oh my Str 8 wizard decided to wear full plate, but he has a porter so he isn't encumbered!" but for a high str character this could matter hugely during combat. It does seem like there's a bit of discrepancy with the porter and the faq.

Any wizard can own full plate. Owning full plate and wearing full plate are two different things.

The porter isn't out on the battle field moving your legs and arms up and down to fight against encumbrance.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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sveden wrote:
The porter isn't out on the battle field moving your legs and arms up and down to fight against encumbrance.

Unless you employ some well-placed manacles/ropes.

Scarab Sages

Michael Brock wrote:
Stonecunning wrote:
That makes sense! Though perhaps it's not the greatest for me, the Drunken Brute who was planning on having a bartender porter to carry several hundred pounds worth of ale on him. Thanks for the clarification though!
Forget the porter. He has to find just the right drink for the occassion. Use a certain magic item and you can draw the exact right drink to your hand everytime. :-)

Which item would this be and is there ever any chance of finding it in PFS? :P

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Handy Haversack, from the CRB.

5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West

Jiggy wrote:
Handy Haversack, from the CRB.

Haversack can only hold 80 pounds in its biggest pouch. "Several hundred pounds" of alcohol might require a Bag of Holding.


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80 pounds is about 10 gallons.

thats a lot o' booze

Scarab Sages

Jiggy wrote:
Handy Haversack, from the CRB.

Now here's something I wish I'd found earlier! I'm running into a problem where the sheer weight of my armor and weapons push me right up to the edge of my carrying capacity, and alcohol is pushing me over. Oldlaw whisky is expensive but relative to weight likely the greatest weight/alcohol content of any available item, and I can keep a bottle in my hand until that empties so I can keep drinking.

That would work really well, though I wish I could find a way to drag the weight of stoneplate down, I have a habit of trying to use stone everything but stone plate + weapon + buckler + handy haversack would push me over my light carrying capacity, which would mean I'd no longer get a +5 on acrobatics even in full plate without a running start. :(

Then again, if I rage...

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Still, you could carry a white wine, a red wine, champaign, a smooth ale, and cheap beer; and then pull out whichever one is called for. ;)

Grand Lodge 4/5

A porter carries extra equipment for you. He is NOT a torchbearer, except for your spare, unlit torches. If the torch is lit, your porter won't touch it. Period. You want a lit torch in the party, someone in the party needs to be holding it.

If he is carrying combat equipment, you better hope you don't need it without previous warning, because that porter with it is not only standing far in back of the company, he is already waiting to hear the all-clear message from the front door.

Think of the porter as a pack mule that is smart enough to not be in the same room when any danger arises. He follows the party, but far enough back that he is behind any ambushes that go off behind your party. And he gets the heck out of the way of anything likely to hurt him. He won't be anywhere a fireball formation or lightning bolt line. He is cowering in the corner of the room UNDER the tapestry, out of sight, out of line of sight, out of line of effect.

And, since he is nowhere near anyone in the party at that point, nothing he is carrying is going to be available at that time.

Out of combat, in no danger, you can get anything he is carrying from him. Eventually. That spare sunrod is easy for him to give you, but that spare tent or sea chest is going to take longer to pull out.

Maybe the best way to think of a porter is as an extradimensional space that jumps into your handy haversack during combat, and is therefore inaccessible due to extradimensional space layering effects. You do know that you can't access the contents of a handy haversack, bag of holding or efficient quiver when you are inside the room created by the Rope Trick spell?

4/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Sorry for bringning up an old thread, but I have a related question. I've been seeing this used in pfs to carry around someones body if their using familiar melding or magic jar. Is the porter considered close enough that if you die you jump back into you body? If so, do you just magically materialize (the way the porter magically disappears) on the battlefield, or do you vome back after the battle?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Crispy3ed wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Hm, I was under the impression that they were not able to participate in combat or other events at all, not even as a casualty. Is this not correct?
That was what I was always led to believe.

Porters are not immune to collateral damage. They have the hit points of a common laborer. Just because you spend prestige points on them doesn't mean they are immune to the consequences of the choices you make with them.

5/5 5/55/55/5

LazarX wrote:
Crispy3ed wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Hm, I was under the impression that they were not able to participate in combat or other events at all, not even as a casualty. Is this not correct?
That was what I was always led to believe.
Porters are not immune to collateral damage. They have the hit points of a common laborer. Just because you spend prestige points on them doesn't mean they are immune to the consequences of the choices you make with them.

That doesn't seem to square with mike brocks post above about them fading into the background at the start of combat.

While this keeps them alive, I think it makes them poor magic jar holders.

Silver Crusade 1/5

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By Urgathoa, what thread necromancy is this.

Porters have no stats. None. No hit points, no saves, ect. They cannot participate in combat, at all. See the FAQ, and Mike Brook's posts above.

4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Crispy3ed wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Hm, I was under the impression that they were not able to participate in combat or other events at all, not even as a casualty. Is this not correct?
That was what I was always led to believe.
Porters are not immune to collateral damage. They have the hit points of a common laborer. Just because you spend prestige points on them doesn't mean they are immune to the consequences of the choices you make with them.

That doesn't seem to square with mike brocks post above about them fading into the background at the start of combat.

While this keeps them alive, I think it makes them poor magic jar holders.

BNW - but what about the person's body? That is my particular question here. I've been seeing it pop up and am wondering if the body is considered "in range" if the person dies.

Ajaxis - Wasn't asking about combat, I'm asking where the porter is for the relationship between familiar melding and magic jar. Is the body considered with in 170 feet? Is it even on this plane?

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Pretty sure your porter wouldn't be able to carry something like that - that's a mechanical effect.

4/5

The body is a mechanical effect?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
The body is a mechanical effect?

Once combat starts yes. (unless the porter drops it on the ground and says "RUn awaaaaaay!" Beating up your inert body is pretty much the only downside to magic jar.

4/5

So, the body disappears outside of range of the spell?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
So, the body disappears outside of range of the spell?

The body can't disappear because of the largely narative effect of the porter. I suppose you could have the body left on the ground behind the party at the start of every combat as if one of the other party members were carrying it.

Grand Lodge 5/5 ****

I think the issue with vanities is that there is a conflict - this is especially the case for the porter

FAQ wrote:


are purely roleplaying flavor and have no mechanical benefits because they have no statistics.

The porter roleplaying wise only works if he is somewhere close by - however you define close. Assume you are on a ship - then he should be on the ship as well. If something affects everyone on the ship then roleplay wise it absolutely distroys versimilitude if he miracously teleports to safety in case every normal crew member (NPCs who also don't give mechanical benefits) dies.

I allowed a GM to kill off my porter because of such a situation. In my view this is both in spirit of the rules as well according to the rules as no fight happened.

I placed him outside the dungeon in a 'safe' place which turned out to be utterly destroyed and everyone killed in that place in the flavour text of the scenario.

I would have felt offended if the GM would have not killed him. If a vanity is for roleplay flavor then I as player should be able for roleplay flavor to have him killed - if my own judgement of a safe place turns out to be flawed.

But yes - in the short time I had a porter for my Strength 7 wizard I realized that in high level play you either disregard roleplay flavor or you leave him at home. There are too many situations where area effects are just too large to claim the porter isn't affected - unless he truly just fades into an extradimensional space.

So my advice for a porter - if you want him for roleplay flavor - don't use him. Buy a bag of holding and if you have trouble to carry the 15 pounds extra weight - just ask a fellow character (dwarf anyone?) to carry it for you.

Theodum had a 'porter' from his first adventure. It was a spare sack filled with the non-essentials and a fellow character who was asked at the start - could you carry this for me.

With hindsight it was much more rewarding roleplay wise as the porter.

Grand Lodge 5/5

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I think you guys are trying to put too much reality into this game.

1/5

Theodum wrote:

I think the issue with vanities is that there is a conflict - this is especially the case for the porter

FAQ wrote:


are purely roleplaying flavor and have no mechanical benefits because they have no statistics.

-snip-

I think you have missed some important sections of the FAQ. In fact, the section you quote has nothing to do with the vanities in question. Your bolded sentence is here in its completed form.

FAQ wrote:
First and foremost, the Leadership feat remains unavailable as a choice in Pathfinder Society. NPCs purchased with Prestige Points out of the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, pages 60-61, continue to provide only the benefits listed under the entries created for the Chronicler, Foreign Contact, Guide, Herald, Hunter, Porter, Seneschal, and Squire. Other than the benefit listed, they have no statistics and can not make any checks involving a dice roll. Slaves or any other NPCs, purchased with gold, are purely roleplaying flavor and have no mechanical benefits because they have no statistics. They can not make any checks involving a dice roll. Creatures that are granted by a class ability, such as animal companions, familiars, eidolons, and mounts have stats and therefore can be utilized in combat, for skill checks, etc...
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
So, the body disappears outside of range of the spell?
The body can't disappear because of the largely narative effect of the porter. I suppose you could have the body left on the ground behind the party at the start of every combat as if one of the other party members were carrying it.

I have always interpreted Mike's line "not available to help swap out equipment" as meaning they take what they are carrying with them when they disappear. I suppose it might be interpreted as it gets dropped on the ground, but that could be odd for some things that would be fragile or hard to drop.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Sitri wrote:
I have always interpreted Mike's line "not available to help swap out equipment" as meaning they take what they are carrying with them when they disappear. I suppose it might be interpreted as it gets dropped on the ground, but that could be odd for some things that would be fragile or hard to drop.

The question here for me is what is the least effect that the porter can have on combat. For an item "not available in combat because the item is in hammerspace" works just fine. However putting someone's body into that same hammerspace has a huge effect on combat: either their body is out of range so they can't get back into it and/or their body is unattackable because its in hammerspace.

4/5

Hmmm, that's a good point bnw. So the consensus seems to be the body should drop as soon as combat begins?

1/5

If the GM rules that the body drops from a porter, bag of holding the body.
If the GM rules the bag of holding prevents breathing needed for familiar melding, use magic jar (I don't think breathing should be needed)
If the GM rules bag of holding puts your body at infinite distance, use magic jar, you can always pop back to a stone if the familiar dies.

4/5

Wouldn't a bag of holding still drop since its giving you a mechanical benefit outside of carry weight? Or is it now exempt since its inside an object?

1/5

That would be an odd thing to drop, most people tie them off, but if you are going this route you don't really need the porter. Just have your familiar or party member carry it. It isn't like people go around sundering random bags.

This is a certain way to protect your body, but subject to some table variation. I normally give a quick rundown of the combo to new GMs for my character that uses this trick and see which route they think works. At best you can do it with a 4th level spell and 5pp or 2.5k. At worst you can do it with a 5th level spell and 2.5k.

For GMs that have seen this character before, I normally ask at the start of the scenario if they want me to "bag or drag" my body.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Attaining physical invulnerability in combat is a definite benefit.

Therefore, you cannot use Magic Jar and send your body off to complete safety in the arms of their porter.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Favorite interactions with Porters:

The party had just looted a rather heavy chest. Chris Homan's Oracle of the Dark Tapestry, Baron Draven Von Darkraven, casually gestures toward his porter -- an anemic little halfling, struggling to carry a mound of bags and chests barely held together with ropes. Draven says, "Percy will be happy to carry it. He's been stress-tested to three-hundred pounds."

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I would say that the porter can't carry your body for the purposes of Magic Jar. Even if they could, then you'd only have a ~6 HP caddy for it, which is hardly optimal.

But, as for a fun story...my Taldan cleric hired Sebastus Hustavan as a porter/herald and makes him do all sorts of humiliating and/or degrading things. That's what he gets for betraying Taldor.

1/5

Will Johnson wrote:

Attaining physical invulnerability in combat is a definite benefit.

Therefore, you cannot use Magic Jar and send your body off to complete safety in the arms of their porter.

They provide the benefits listed; in this case moving stuff. I am not completely sure what happens to the stuff the porter is carrying in combat, I give the GM several options on how I would like to protect my body. But if the porter prevents a suit of armor he is carrying from being sundered or stolen, it only follows that it would prevent a dead body from being damaged or stolen.

Netopalis wrote:

I would say that the porter can't carry your body for the purposes of Magic Jar. Even if they could, then you'd only have a ~6 HP caddy for it, which is hardly optimal.

But, as for a fun story...my Taldan cleric hired Sebastus Hustavan as a porter/herald and makes him do all sorts of humiliating and/or degrading things. That's what he gets for betraying Taldor.

Spending prestige for a servant is not the same as spending gold for a servant, that has been detailed above. Vanities have no hit points.

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