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Any reason not to use cold iron?


Advice


if making a mw weapon. Other than the base cost being doubled (ie a dagger costs 304) which is insignificant, any reason not to do it?


You will have to pay extra 2,000 if you will ever add magical properties to it. Otherwise no complications. I thought that masterwork cost would be doubled as well but masterwork cold iron longsword listed in random magic weapon table costs mere 330 gp so it is not.


Why the extra 2000gp? I'm sorry if I'm totally missing an obvious thing!


Yar!

hellacious huni wrote:
Why the extra 2000gp? I'm sorry if I'm totally missing an obvious thing!

...because the rules say so.

Special Materials wrote:

his iron, mined deep underground and known for its effectiveness against demons and fey creatures, is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties. Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts. Also, adding any magical enhancements to a cold iron weapon increases its price by 2,000 gp. This increase is applied the first time the item is enhanced, not once per ability added.

Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron. An arrow could be made of cold iron, but a quarterstaff could not. A double weapon with one cold iron half costs 50% more than normal.

Cold iron has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.

Bolding is mine.

~P


it's part of the price for Cold iron, it's resistant to magic, so there's an extra charge to make it magical.
it's in the write up for making things Cold iron in the equipment chapter of the Core Rule Book.


Ahhhhh, thanks!


I like that about cold iron.

with adamanium and mithral the extra cost is front loaded into the original purchase. with cold iron its a sneaky cost to upgrade.

Dark Archive

A +2 (Enhancement bonus) weapon counts as cold iron for the purposes of overcoming DR so most of the time it ends up being nearly the same cost for a MUCH better upgrade to upgrade your primary weapon to +2 over actual cold iron.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Carbon D. Metric wrote:
A +2 (Enhancement bonus) weapon counts as cold iron for the purposes of overcoming DR so most of the time it ends up being nearly the same cost for a MUCH better upgrade to upgrade your primary weapon to +2 over actual cold iron.

Incorrect. It takes a +3 to overcome as though the weapon was cold iron.

Dark Archive

Jiggy wrote:
Carbon D. Metric wrote:
A +2 (Enhancement bonus) weapon counts as cold iron for the purposes of overcoming DR so most of the time it ends up being nearly the same cost for a MUCH better upgrade to upgrade your primary weapon to +2 over actual cold iron.
Incorrect. It takes a +3 to overcome as though the weapon was cold iron.

Ohh, ok thx, I could have sworn it started at 2...


Is there any reason to have cold iron armor?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Carbon D. Metric wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Carbon D. Metric wrote:
A +2 (Enhancement bonus) weapon counts as cold iron for the purposes of overcoming DR so most of the time it ends up being nearly the same cost for a MUCH better upgrade to upgrade your primary weapon to +2 over actual cold iron.
Incorrect. It takes a +3 to overcome as though the weapon was cold iron.
Ohh, ok thx, I could have sworn it started at 2...

I ran into an old "vet" who thought the same thing, so maybe it used to be?

@Pomkin - Only if your local barbarian likes to grab you by the ankle and use you to beat demons to death.


Pomkin wrote:
Is there any reason to have cold iron armor?
Jiggy wrote:
Only if your local barbarian likes to grab you by the ankle and use you to beat demons to death.

Armor spikes.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I like to give armor a DR value equal to half its AC bonus specifically against the thing it would overcome.

so full plate cold iron armor would have DR4 against natural attacks from fey or any attack from demons. its a small bonus but gives a reason for special material armors.


So at +4 enhancement, admantine and mithral are the only weapons that provide any benefit?


Pomkin wrote:
So at +4 enhancement, admantine and mithral are the only weapons that provide any benefit?

unless you're concerned about weight, Silver is also bypassed at +3, making Mithral irrelevant as well.


what did silver have to do with it?

mithral still provides a bonus, it's harder than regular and lighter so it still has use.

adamantine seems to be a clear winner. What was that material that was like adamantine on crack?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pomkin wrote:
What was that material that was like adamantine on crack?

Scrith? General Products hull material?


hogarth wrote:
Pomkin wrote:
What was that material that was like adamantine on crack?
Scrith? General Products hull material?

No haha it's a d&d material


... there is a DR/mithral?

who has that?


blue_the_wolf wrote:

... there is a DR/mithral?

who has that?

There isn't.


blue_the_wolf wrote:

... there is a DR/mithral?

who has that?

IDK but generally mithral does silver damage with-out a minus to damage.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

The main reason not to use cold iron: it will infuriate the Sidhe, and they will unleash a torrent of passionless hell on you.


on a side note.
I always considered Mithral to be the fantasy version of titanium. more of an alloy or special proces like steel than a specific metal.


pg 155 Core Rulebook, just after it talks about Mithral weapons NOT counting as a easier to use. "Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

Maybe in the upcoming Ultimate Equipment Guide, they'll give us some more info about special materials and overcoming DR?


Under Special Materials in the Equipment section for Mithril

Quote:
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Bolding mine.


Cold iron weapons are something all adventurers should carry. Especially as backup weapons. They can be quickly enhanced with an oil of magic weapon (just provides the +1 enhancement, cost increase be damned), and later having greater magic weapon cast on your favorite cold iron weapon each day will last your whole adventure (1 hour / level, can be extended with a lesser rod) to carry around a +5 cold iron weapon. Honestly, greater magic weapon plus an extend metamagic rod is a great combo for most any weapon.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
blue_the_wolf wrote:


on a side note.
I always considered Mithral to be the fantasy version of titanium. more of an alloy or special proces like steel than a specific metal.

Can't help myself, I need to burst your bobble here. Titanium IS NOT an alloy, but an element (no. 22). Correctly, steel is an alloy, but fun fact about it, it's more pure iron than what we'd call iron. Completely pure iron is hard to make and is fragile and useless.


While some of the special materials grant bonusses, I would rather turn the attention to the inferior materials: Bone, Obsidian and Stone.

As long as your are going to make an MW weapon, there is no reason that you should make it from Obsidian or Stone, as they loose the fragile quality.
So while you lower the hardness, you get a lighter, cheaper weapon.

For ammunition, using stone is a given. While it isn't that expensive, cutting costs by 75% is the only rational choice. After whenever you roll a natural 1, which break the arrow, it is going to miss anyway.

For shurikens, it becomes shamelessly nice, as it makes you able to use the Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon feat. Auto-confirming crits is nice, but adding 1d4 bleed to every attack you make starting at lvl 1 or 3, is very nice.

Scarab Sages

Please, someone, tell me on what page in the Core Rulebook (or any other Pathfinder book) what, exactly, are the bonuses for COLD IRON?

I've seen this:

Spoiler:

This iron, mined deep underground and known for its effectiveness against demons and fey creatures, is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties.

Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron. An arrow could be made of cold iron, but a quarterstaff could not.

HP/inch 30
Hardness 10
Cost Weapons x2 normal. Add magic enhancement +2,000 gp.
Cost (Longer Wording) "Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts. Also, adding any magical enhancements to a cold iron weapon increases its price by 2,000 gp. This increase is applied the first time the item is enhanced, not once per ability added. A double weapon with one cold iron half costs 50% more than normal."

What are the exact bonus, DR bypass or anything? Does it do extra damage to fey or demons? Does it bypass fey or demon DR? What is the "effectiveness" they are talking about? And on what page??

What page??? (I feel like I've looked forever, getting frustrated).

Thanks!


It bypasses damage reduction cold iron, which is a very common damage reduction

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Stiletto wrote:

What page??? (I feel like I've looked forever, getting frustrated).

Thanks!

Here.

Quote:

Dretch CR 2

XP 600
CE Small outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+3 natural, +1 size)
hp 18 (2d10+7)
Fort +5, Ref +0, Will +3
DR 5/cold iron or good; Immune electricity, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10


HaraldKlak wrote:


For shurikens, it becomes shamelessly nice, as it makes you able to use the Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon feat. Auto-confirming crits is nice, but adding 1d4 bleed to every attack you make starting at lvl 1 or 3, is very nice.
PRD, emphasis mine wrote:
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.

Shuriken crafted of fragile materials are treated as ammunition, and do not qualify for the Disposable Weapon or Splintering Weapon feats.


WRoy wrote:
HaraldKlak wrote:


For shurikens, it becomes shamelessly nice, as it makes you able to use the Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon feat. Auto-confirming crits is nice, but adding 1d4 bleed to every attack you make starting at lvl 1 or 3, is very nice.
PRD, emphasis mine wrote:
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Shuriken crafted of fragile materials are treated as ammunition, and do not qualify for the Disposable Weapon or Splintering Weapon feats.

Not to encourage such things but the feat HaraldKlak refers to has nothing to do with what happens to the weapon itself after it is thrown. The weapon is a throwing weapon but is only treated as ammunition for the specific purposes listed. It is otherwise not ammunition. I'm not seeing a problem with what he's saying, beyond that it seems a bit devious.


My melee characters always have a couple of backup masterwork cold iron weapons after about level 5. Cold iron arrows are particularly good value.


Ashiel wrote:


Not to encourage such things but the feat HaraldKlak refers to has nothing to do with what happens to the weapon itself after it is thrown. The weapon is a throwing weapon but is only treated as ammunition for the specific purposes listed. It is otherwise not ammunition. I'm not seeing a problem with what he's saying, beyond that it seems a bit devious.

Shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of what happens to them after they are thrown. The Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon feats modify what happens to a fragile thrown weapon after it is thrown, but excludes ammunition as a qualifier. One can make an argument that shuriken's description disqualifies it as a weapon usable with those feats.

It's not the most solid argument, but it can certainly be held as just a valid interpretation as the opposite.

EDIT:

If you don't agree that the description of shuriken disqualifies them, this may seem a more logical approach from a different angle.


  • Shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of what happens to them after they are thrown.
  • Ammunition which hits its target is immediately destroyed.
  • Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon both give the broken condition to a thrown weapon which has already hit a target to auto-confirm a critical or apply a bleed effect, respectively.
  • You can't give the broken condition to an object which is already destroyed.


not to mention NOT having cold Iron might be desastrous against linnorms
Reg (cold iron) and DR cold Iron


My tactic with weapons tend to be this, have a back-up cold iron weapon, a simple dagger even. Make your primary an adamantine weapon and get it to +3 ASAP. That way you deal magic, cold iron, silver, and adamantine at the same time.

Overcoming DR

-Hexen


WRoy wrote:


Shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of what happens to them after they are thrown. The Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon feats modify what happens to a fragile thrown weapon after it is thrown, but excludes ammunition as a qualifier. One can make an argument that shuriken's description disqualifies it as a weapon usable with those feats.

It's not the most solid argument, but it can certainly be held as just a valid interpretation as the opposite.

I think the wording of counting as ammunition after being thrown quite directly refers to the fact that they are being destroyed.

No matter what, using it to base a ruling on the fragile feats becomes vague, since the rules text has been written years before those.

WRoy wrote:

If you don't agree that the description of shuriken disqualifies them, this may seem a more logical approach from a different angle.


  • Shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of what happens to them after they are thrown.
  • Ammunition which hits its target is immediately destroyed.
  • Disposable Weapon and Splintering Weapon both give the broken condition to a thrown weapon which has already hit a target to auto-confirm a critical or apply a bleed effect, respectively.
  • You can't give the broken condition to an object which is already destroyed.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that if they are destroyed as soon as you succeed the attack roll, they can't deal damage, let alone roll to confirm a critical.

EDIT: Actually it doesn't work at all. None of the materials can as written be used to make a ranged weapon. My mistake.
Although it seem a bit weird that a longspear can be made from obsidian, while a javelin cannot.


HaraldKlak wrote:


The problem with this line of reasoning is that if they are destroyed as soon as you succeed the attack roll, they can't deal damage, let alone roll to confirm a critical.

Deciding you can apply the broken condition to a fragile thrown weapon that is getting destroyed as part of using it is equally questionable and problematic.

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