Warlock: STR Ranger's Guide to the Hexcrafter.


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This part was conveniently left out from the monster ability for natural attacks:

Quote:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type

The hair is a secondary natural attack used in conjunction with manufactured weapon attacks. That's why creatures using natural attacks and manufactured attacks usually have feats like Multiweapon Fighting and take Double Slice to get full strength. Attempting to isolate a rule to benefit your character because of a unique combination won't be allowed around most tables.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Citation provided. :)

PRD wrote:

Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table: Natural Attacks by Size lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.

That's now what that means. That is attempting to isolate rule outside the context for an unusual situation. That rule is meant for creatures that have only a single natural attack such as a slam. Not a creature using weapons with an additional single natural attack.

Find me an actual creature example to back up this ruling. You must have one you know if you're using it.


Raith Shadar wrote:
The hair is a secondary natural attack used in conjunction with manufactured weapon attacks. That's why creatures using natural attacks and manufactured attacks usually have feats like Multiweapon Fighting and take Double Slice to get full strength. Attempting to isolate a rule to benefit your character because of a unique combination won't be allowed around most tables.

I don't think it matters if the Hexcrafter/Witch in question uses manufactured weaponry in the same attack action, because the player could declare their characters are not using their weapons this round, only their Prehensile Hair. Not sure if this is against RAW, but definitely against the RAI. The important part, AFAIK, is the fact that Prehensile Hair specifically denotes itself being a Secondary Natural Attack as opposed to simply being a "Natural Attack" (neither specifically Primary or Secondary).

Raith Shadar wrote:

That's now what that means. That is attempting to isolate rule outside the context for an unusual situation. That rule is meant for creatures that have only a single natural attack such as a slam. Not a creature using weapons with an additional single natural attack.

Find me an actual creature example to back up this ruling. You must have one you know if you're using it.

At least I'm not the only one finding fault with this line of thinking... I was starting to think I was alone or just wrong.

Dark Archive

Raith Shadar wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Citation provided. :)

PRD wrote:

Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table: Natural Attacks by Size lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.

That's now what that means. That is attempting to isolate rule outside the context for an unusual situation. That rule is meant for creatures that have only a single natural attack such as a slam. Not a creature using weapons with an additional single natural attack.

Find me an actual creature example to back up this ruling. You must have one you know if you're using it.

This is exactly what this means.

The natural attack rules ONLY matter when you are ONLY using natural attacks. If you use anything else then the hair attacks become secondary attacks. Period.

If you go back and read the hair build you see he only has 1 natural attack (prehensile hair) and his sword is hanging in a sheathe at his belt. Since he's NOT using a manufactured weapon AND he doesn't have any other natural attack then the quoted rule comes into effect.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

This is exactly what this means.

The natural attack rules ONLY matter when you are ONLY using natural attacks. If you use anything else then the hair attacks become secondary attacks. Period.

If you go back and read the hair build you see he only has 1 natural attack (prehensile hair) and his sword is hanging in a sheathe at his belt. Since he's NOT using a manufactured weapon AND he doesn't have any other natural attack then the quoted rule comes into effect.

If his sword is "hanging in a sheathe at his belt", that's even worse since he wouldn't be able to use Spell Combat OR Spellstrike per the PRD.

Spell Combat wrote:
Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Spellstrike wrote:
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Furthermore, have fun only getting one attack a round since your hair is your ONLY Natural Attack.

Natural Attacks wrote:
You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).

Don't get me wrong here, I love the flavor of this build. I really WANT it to work, but the more I break it down and examine it, the less it functions as it needs to.

Dark Archive

Cruel Kindness wrote:
unimportant text

Which is why there is a note on the Defiler build that states with that last FAQ update the build doesn't work any longer.

BEFORE that last faq all your natural attacks counted as valid weapons for spell combat allowing you to get 2 attacks a round with your hair at full strength and deliver multiple frostbite charges and debuffs every round.

Now the Defiler is reduced to not wanting to use spellcombat any longer which makes for a clunky round of bleh instead of the seamless joy it used to be. I've mostly given up on it but hope to someday find a way to make it work again. Maybe with a 2 level dip into Alchemist instead.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Cruel Kindness wrote:
unimportant text
stuff I assume people see, then get rude when people don't (because it's hidden somewhere in a poorly formatted 17 page Google document)

I can edit quotes in a impolite fashion, too.

I'm failing to see the note in the Google Doc, but I suppose that's irrelevant to anything except excusing my confusion.

I'm still not convinced about the Primary/Secondary Natural Attack thing, though. If it was intended to be used as a Primary Natural Attack, wouldn't Pazio have just listed it as such? Pazio knew Hexcrafters and Witches would have access to the ability. I doubt they thought nobody would try a build that uses only the hair as a means of attack. The basic rules state that when a creature combines Natural Attacks and manufactured weapons in the same Full Attack Action, Natural Attacks default to being Secondary. You don't get to ignore other forms of making an attack to make the rules suit your needs just because you have a Natural Attack. You still have arms and legs, not to mention a head, capable of making attacks. In fact, ALL Witches and Hexcrafters have arms and legs capable of making attacks.

Seems pretty cut and dry as far as I can tell. RAW, Prehensile Hair is a Secondary Natural Attack because it is denoted as being such.

Dark Archive

Ok, last try.
At no point in this build, attack routine or anywhere mentioned in this thread has anyone but you ever mixed the hair attack with any other attack.
It has always just been spellcombat -> hair attack -> spellstrike through second hair attack. Nothing else.

Also since you seem to be misinformed, punches, kicks, headbutts, etc are NOT natural attacks. They don't trigger the secondary attack condition.

Now if you don't want this to work in your game that's fine, it's just a game.


The thing that you're missing is that the defiler build uses 1 level of the white haired witch archetype from the archetype
At 1st level, a white-haired witch gains the ability to use her hair as a weapon. This functions as a PRIMARY natural attack with a reach of 5 feet. The hair deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small witch) plus the witch’s Intelligence modifier. In addition, whenever the hair strikes a foe, the witch can attempt to grapple that foe with her hair as a free action* without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her Intelligence modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making the combat maneuver check. When a white-haired witch grapples a foe in this way, she does not gain the grappled condition.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Raith Shadar wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Citation provided. :)

PRD wrote:

Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table: Natural Attacks by Size lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.

That's now what that means. That is attempting to isolate rule outside the context for an unusual situation. That rule is meant for creatures that have only a single natural attack such as a slam. Not a creature using weapons with an additional single natural attack.

Find me an actual creature example to back up this ruling. You must have one you know if you're using it.

This is exactly what this means.

The natural attack rules ONLY matter when you are ONLY using natural attacks. If you use anything else then the hair attacks become secondary attacks. Period.

If you go back and read the hair build you see he only has 1 natural attack (prehensile hair) and his sword is hanging in a sheathe at his belt. Since he's NOT using a manufactured weapon AND he doesn't have any other natural attack then the quoted rule comes into effect.

Thank you for the explanation. I understand better now. So this applies when you are only using your hair. I agree with that.


We may have to remove or least redefine the defiler.

a rime frostbite enforcer build seems the most viable.
currently it loads entangled, fatigued and shaken on a single hit.
plus your level in non lethal damage. it is a good trick and not very resource intensive.

Dark Archive

STR Ranger wrote:

We may have to remove or least redefine the defiler.

a rime frostbite enforcer build seems the most viable.
currently it loads entangled, fatigued and shaken on a single hit.
plus your level in non lethal damage. it is a good trick and not very resource intensive.

Not anymore, SKR just included Prehensile hair as a valid choice for spellcombat. The defiler build is back in action and works like it used too!!

I'll update the hexcrafter guide and get to work on adding more juicy goodness to it from the new books.

The Exchange

Hi sorry, but where did SKR say that Prehensile hair is a valid choice for spell combat? I thought it was only things to do with hands, ie. unarmed strikes, claws, slam etc. I can't find it :(

Grand Lodge

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

We may have to remove or least redefine the defiler.

a rime frostbite enforcer build seems the most viable.
currently it loads entangled, fatigued and shaken on a single hit.
plus your level in non lethal damage. it is a good trick and not very resource intensive.

Not anymore, SKR just included Prehensile hair as a valid choice for spellcombat. The defiler build is back in action and works like it used too!!

I'll update the hexcrafter guide and get to work on adding more juicy goodness to it from the new books.

Excellent! If you are taking requests can you post a defiler build for PFS as well as non PFS, please? I really dig the White-Haired Defiler.

The Exchange

here is m pfs build

AL SURESH KHALIDA (Tian-Sings)
(Tian-Sings) Male Magus 4
Init +2; Senses Perception +3

==DEFENSE==
AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +2 dex, +1 Natural, +1 Deflection)
hp 38 (4d8+8)
SR 0
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +4
Armor +1 Elven Chain, Light

==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft/x4
Melee Sap +6 (1d6+3) 20/x2
Melee Spell Storing Scimitar +1 +9 (1d6+5) 18-20/x2 CM +2; store a spell up to 3rd level

==STATISTICS==
Str 19, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

BAB +3, CMB +7, CMD +20

Concentration +11

Feats Arcane Strike (PFCR 118), Armor Proficiency (LIGHT) (PFCR 118), Combat Casting (PFCR 119), Enforcer (PFAPG 159), Rime Spell (PFUM 155), Weapon Focus (Scimitar) (PFCR 136-137)

Arcana Arcane Accuracy

Skills Intimidate +7, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (local) +4, Knowledge (planes) +7, Perception +5, Spellcraft +9, Use Magic Device +7

Traits Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), Wayang Spellhunter (Frostbite)

Languages Common, Draconic, Minatan, Thassilonian, Tien

Gear Potion of Darkvision, Potion of See Invis, Wand of CLW (24), Pearl of power 1st (3/3 left), +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Deflection, Scroll of fly

Ex Spell Combat
Su Spell Strike,Spell Recall, 5/Day Arcane Pool
Spells (CL 5)
L0: 4/day
L1: 5/day
L2: 3/day

----
not necessarily the mot optimized but well rounded
and yes the combo of enforcer-rimed spell is great

Silver Crusade

Just a Mort wrote:
Hi sorry, but where did SKR say that Prehensile hair is a valid choice for spell combat? I thought it was only things to do with hands, ie. unarmed strikes, claws, slam etc. I can't find it :(

Here it is. I think.

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Blackstorm wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Spell combat uses hands (a natural weapon that's part of that hand qualifies). There ya go.
Or prehensile hair, iirc. Just awesome hex for hexcrafter.
AWESOME!! Woot, my Defiler build is back in action!!

Dad GUM! Those quote mechanics are confusing as heck! Took me 45 minutes to figure out how to do that, and I'm still not sure if I did it right!


Yep. Coding takes a bit to figure out even with the tips on site.

Glad to see this is still being used.
I haven't maintained the guide in awhile.

But I am starting am new job in the next two weeks back to the mines.
2 weeks on one week off.
Lots of time sitting in my camp room with nothing to do so I will probably be needing out on PF on the computer a lot.

Silver Crusade

Could you recommend a Defiler build for PFS?

Dark Archive

No, we do not recommend the defiler build for PFS. We don't actually recommend this build for actual play.
It's cheesy, game breaking and abusive as all heck. It was an exercise in optimization to see just how far it could go like ambarbarian and amy-alchemist.

Now if you wish to grab a few tidbits from it to add to your hexcrafter go ahead but a full on build will ruin the fun for everyone else at your table especially your GM.

Silver Crusade

Awww. I really want to play it to see how it works in practice. I can understand how GM's might look askance at it and I would need to provide the various rules bits that make it work, but I think that, because you are only targeting one to two creatures per round, that other players will still have things to do. Especially as your purpose is not to kill the baddies, but to allow your party members to do so, they might appreciate it. Not only that, but this build, and Magus' in general, have trouble with certain enemies (swarms come to mind). Couple that with your low hit points and I don't see it as game breaking.

But, I could be wrong. Hence my desire to try it out.


The defiler is RAW so you CAN do it. Just recognize it should only really be used in a game on Hard mode with an Optimized Party or everyone else will cry.

To try a watered Down version for a normal game check out Varrels avatar. (Fixed for 20 point buy)

He goes like this:
1- Arcane pool, cantrips, spell combat, Rime Spell
2- Spellstrike
3- Arcana: Familiar (either raven or pterosaur), Enforcer
4- Hex Magus: Slumber
5- Bonus Feat: Blindfight, Combat Expertise
6- Hex Arcana: Misfortune, Racial: Hex Arcana- Flight
7-Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor, Moonlight Stalker
8-Improved Spell Combat
9-Hex Arcana-Evil Eye, Improved Familiar (Fairie Dragon)
10-Fighter Training
11-Power Attack, Spell Recall, Intensify Spell
12- Hex Arcana- Ice Tomb, Racial: Hex Arcana- Retribution or major healing
13- Heavy Armor, Extra Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
14 Greater Spell Combat
15- Arcana- Bane Blade, Craft Rod
16- Counterstrike
17-Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection:Chain Lightning
18- Hex Arcana- Summon Spirit, Racial: Lifegiver
19- Greater Spell Access, Dazing Spell
20- True Magus


Varrel is a sweet mix of Defiler with some God punching thrown in.

As per the guide he uses Hexes and CdG a lot on Mooks or will evil eye foes for his allies.

If he wants to nova an opponent he will precast SHOCKING GRASP and designate his Pterosaur familiar as the toucher.

He has His familiar charge in (sudden swoop doesn't provoke) to deliver a shock.
Varrel closes and does a Rime Frostbite Enforcer hit.
Drops Entangled, Fatigued and maybe Intimidate on the foe,plus his level in extra damage.

Subsequent rounds he can repeat the spellstrike while his familiar stays in the enemies space using Aid Another to improve Varrels attack.

At level 7 Moonlight Stalker comes online.
Use BLUR and now you are 20% miss. And with Moonlight Stalker you got a combat long +2 hit and damage.

At level 9 the new FAERIE DRAGON familiar is your personal Wand B!tch, casting Blur and other buffs for you.

At level 11 (when you have built your access to buffs via the familiar+wands) you gain POWER ATTACK and can access the more powerful monstrous physique forms for your Rime+enforcer+Frostbite attacks with all the extra limbs. Preferably BLURRED or greater Invisibility from your familiar.

SG just got bumped to 10d6 from intensify spell.

ONCE Ice Tomb comes online you now have both a Will or a Fort Save or be screwed Hex depending on what you face.

Retribution or Major Healing really depends on your groups access to healing in combat. I prefer to go with retribution and use Infernal Healing wands to recharge HP outside of combat.

At 13 you have enough attacks and Pool Points to use ARCANE ACCURACY on Multiple Natural and IIterative, make all those Rime,Frostbite, Enforcer Power Attacks hit!!! Oh, start wearing Mithral Fullplate!!

At 15 BANE BLADE! freaking awesome! Oh and spare a limb to hold all those self crafted rods of Empower,Maximize etc (increase the craft dc and you don't need to know the feat)

In the final levels we sstart increasing our area blasting. You can see it building towards spell perfected quickened chain lightning, followed up in the same round with a Dazing chain lightning.
(Stack rods on it!)


Varrel is like an elite crossfitter, really good at a whole bunch of stuff, without over specializing in any one thing.

His saves and HP are his two weak points, (not that strong base fort and will save progression is bad, just not as good as a Witchunter steel soul, dwarf inquisitor or a high Cha paladin)

His melee attack power is pretty high (adding the -5 for the Frostbite debuff)
Stacking Arcane pool, Bane and Moonlight Stalker, Power Attack.

His save or dies and other Hexes are sweet (INT 30 with Headband and tomes is achievable) and he benefits more from the INT since it ups his spell DC's, pool points and Arcane Accuracy bonus.

Action economy is his B!tch.
He can swift action while he casts and his familiar buffs him simultaneously.

Silver Crusade

Varrel wrote:
The defiler is RAW so you CAN do it. Just recognize it should only really be used in a game on Hard mode with an Optimized Party or everyone else will cry.

Well, it'll be nice for a change. I'm kinda tired of playing my straight magus' with melee druids, optimized summoners that take 10 minutes to do anything because of all the crap they have, and tengu zen archer monks, all of whom seem to take down everything before I can get to it because I have to spend the first round casting buffs just to make sure I survive.

But I'm not bitter, or anything. ;)


Great guide, love it! Want to play a Hexcrafter as my next character.


Most excellent guide. Do you guys have any guidance for perhaps a middle of the road debuffer/melee Hexcrafter that doesn't utilize the white haired witch archetype?

I want to try building a dhampir hexcrafter (moroi-born variety) for a Carrion Crown campaign, but I'm having a slight difficulty in deciding if I should focus specifically on the Hex's and curses for debuffing, or take more melee-oriented feats to make the character more of a damage dealer, or would it be OK to do a mix of both without losing too much potency either way. This is all without knowing what everyone else in the group may choose.


I was thinking of something similar to the Defiler while playing Skulls and Shackles, sounds like a good theme for a pirate. If I were to play as a Strix how would grappling with my hair work while flying?


SuperJudge wrote:
I was thinking of something similar to the Defiler while playing Skulls and Shackles, sounds like a good theme for a pirate. If I were to play as a Strix how would grappling with my hair work while flying?

It probably wouldn't, weight limit would prove difficult to deal with. Best case you are 5' over them/adjacent with "normal" reach. That still puts you within melee range of opponents.

Also I believe there would be a bonus on the opponents check as you are moving them into a dangerous situatioon (falling), but I'd have go read all the grapple rules again to be sure. That is if you have the physical strength to fly with the opponents total weight with gear on top of you/your gear.


Skylancer4 wrote:
SuperJudge wrote:
I was thinking of something similar to the Defiler while playing Skulls and Shackles, sounds like a good theme for a pirate. If I were to play as a Strix how would grappling with my hair work while flying?

It probably wouldn't, weight limit would prove difficult to deal with. Best case you are 5' over them/adjacent with "normal" reach. That still puts you within melee range of opponents.

Also I believe there would be a bonus on the opponents check as you are moving them into a dangerous situatioon (falling), but I'd have go read all the grapple rules again to be sure. That is if you have the physical strength to fly with the opponents total weight with gear on top of you/your gear.

I guess a Synthesist would be better for what I am trying to do then. Thats too bad, I really liked the idea of playing a pirate ruining people with his beard.


I have a couple of things...

Is the elf really that much better than a tiefling? Does the tiefling have anything going for it?

I keep finding myself drawn to taking Eldritch - Fey/Sylvan for an animal companion. It'll be at -5 but boon companion can make that just -1 so you're getting a pretty amazing class feature for the cost of 3 feats... I'm not entirely sure why a Magus should have one but again why not?


The combo of blind fight plus combat expertise to gain moonlight stalker for a +2/+2 IF you have concealment isn't a bad option by any means but you still need a spell to gain the benefits most the time and you've got 2 very situational feats along the way .

Whereas skill focus perception / Eldritch heritage (Fey-sylvan) and boon companion nets an animal companion at level -1 which just looks like a better deal for 3 feats. Perception is an awesome skill and the possibilities an animal companion can grant are huge. Even flanking nets +2 to hit, not to mention deliberately drawing AoO's to make spell combat all the easier.

Thoughts?


stuart haffenden wrote:

I have a couple of things...

Is the elf really that much better than a tiefling? Does the tiefling have anything going for it?

Tiefling are really good magus and hexcrafter. Why the elf? Elves get favored class bonus of +1/6 magus arcana. Add to hexcrafter hexes. That means 3 arcana or hexes over 18 levels. It's a good edge. That said, the Tiefling excel at being a Magus.

Quote:
I keep finding myself drawn to taking Eldritch - Fey/Sylvan for an animal companion. It'll be at -5 but boon companion can make that just -1 so you're getting a pretty amazing class feature for the cost of 3 feats... I'm not entirely sure why a Magus should have one but again why not?

Imho it depends from a couple of factors: first of all, magi are typically feats starved. They gain 2 or 3 feats along their class, but they're really run out fast of feats. The other point is that if you get animal companion you get it at a lower level, you must fire 3 feats and adding to that, you don't have spells to enhance your animal companion in combat. You get a restricted set of spells drawn from the wizard list, that's not such a great list for a companion. You can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it.


Sorry for double post, but I have a question: why Moonlight Stalker is up highly rated? In the guide you say something like "most adventures are underground and the dungeons are dark", but I can't really see the point: The dungeons are filled with monsters that don't have trouble to see in the dark. Moonlight Stalker require you have concealment, but really anyone that have lowlight or darkvision is totally immune from this feat, if you rely on natural darkness. You can get it from spells, that's true, but it's resources drain. So why?


Blackstorm wrote:
Sorry for double post, but I have a question: why Moonlight Stalker is up highly rated? In the guide you say something like "most adventures are underground and the dungeons are dark", but I can't really see the point: The dungeons are filled with monsters that don't have trouble to see in the dark. Moonlight Stalker require you have concealment, but really anyone that have lowlight or darkvision is totally immune from this feat, if you rely on natural darkness. You can get it from spells, that's true, but it's resources drain. So why?

That's my point, you need to cast blur on top of taking 3 feats. Obscuring Mist is another option but will likely mess with your friends.

For the same investment you get an animal companion at -1. Or something completely different.


stuart haffenden wrote:


That's my point, you need to cast blur on top of taking 3 feats. Obscuring Mist is another option but will likely mess with your friends.

For the same investment you get an animal companion at -1. Or something completely different.

Honestly I prefer the latter. I'm not a big fan of animal companion, unless I have reliable ways to buff it. That means a druid or similar, maybe a ranger, and still I feel low comfortable. I feel that those 3 feats can be spent in other ways. ..


Mirror Image isn't a bad start. If you've gone with a improved familiar you have access to all wiz/sorc spells via a faerie dragon.


It's a great combo because I offers so much more than
Wpn Focus
Wpn Spec
Gtr Weapon Focus

3 feats I always hear being bandied around as 'Good Feats'
all they offer is +2 to attack and Damage with 1 weapon.

Where
Blindfight-invisible opponents get no bonus to attack you and you roll 2x on miss chance.
Combat Expertise- Let's you buff A and is a preq if you want to take a maneuver.
Moonlight Stalker- +2 to hit and damage with concealment.

Now as to the situational spell use.
What were you planning on casting to buff yourself again?
Blur
Greater Invisibility

These should have been your main defensive buffs anyway.

That's why it's a good combo.
It's not a resource drain to cast Blur because you were probably going to use it any way regardless of taking the moonlight stalker chain.

Unlike the flat bonus of say SHIELD, the BLUR spell and Gtr Invisible scale better.
At high levels a big melee monster likely very easily hits your AC even with shield.

Where a miss chance is just as effective


stuart haffenden wrote:
Mirror Image isn't a bad start. If you've gone with a improved familiar you have access to all wiz/sorc spells via a faerie dragon.

This is a much better deal than an animal companion.

Two feats get the fairy dragon who CAN CAST STUFF FOR YOU!
I would take a wand using familiar over a Animal Companion any day.
Less feats (you need CHA for eldritch heritage) and WAY more versatile than a pet who draws funny looks in cities, can't talk and can't use wands.


I'd cast mirror image over blur all day long personally but I'm not doubting the usefulness of a familiar.
I believe an AC is very much worth considering though. It can tank, attack, provide flanking, draw AoO's etc. You recommend Enforcer but that needs Charisma too.

To be honest I'd like to work in both, maybe I'm being greedy!


Str Ranger here.

I am by no means saying that the 3 builds suggested are the only optimal ones.

Merely that they are all very strong.

My personal favorite is this avatar.

Varrel falls between the Defiler build at low levels- making big use of the Frostbite spell. His CHA sucks but intimidate is a class skill and keeping it maxed helps. A skill boost item makes the check easy. Pre level 6, SHIELD and Frostbite, SG are his 3 main spells. He relies heavily on Slumber vs single foes.
He can also spam BRAND for extra attacks when frostbite slots run out. His pterosaur familiar uses it's SUDDEN SWOOP ability to charge in to the enemy square and make aid another attacks to improve Varrel's to hit.

At mid levels He runs into Blur and Moonlight Stalker. He makes a very hard foe to hit with Mithral Breastplate AND miss chance. He actually tanks quite well now in short periods. His to hit is sweet with an Arcane point on a weapon AND moonlight stalker running. Plus being an elf he can use BLEND and makes a flying stealthy scout with a big gun.

Plus he can Evil Eye or Misfortune his foes when he has nothing better to do and the party paladin loves him for it.

Versatility is his strength.


If nothing else your guide has shown how vastly customizable the Magus is. Before delving into the crunch in detail it looks like a pretty boring class that just shocking grasps everything round after round. Although there isn't anything wrong with that tactic it is just one of many possibilities.

In general I loathe Slumber as it is very predictable in Witch form. It's almost brokenly good and Im trying to avoid it in my build but having hexes and not picking Slumber feels like Im deliberately trying to penalize myself. However all the target only once hexes are risky imo, so I'll probably take Evil Eye and Cackle - if at first you don't succeed and all that. It fits my de-buffing theme - frostbite/rime/enforcer/evil eye.


Yeah, along those lines, what would the best 'second choices' be if one wanted to avoid, or was say prohibited from choosing the usual Slumber/Ice Tomb stuff? How do those third party ranged Combat Move option things work? Ranged trip/bullrush/etc hexes.


This is my build so far, any comments are welcome.

Race - Tiefling

1. Rime Spell

3. Enforcer/Arcane Accuracy
4. Hex Magus: Evil Eye / Int +1
5. Extra Arcana - Cackle/ Power Attack
6. Hex: Familiar
7. Improved Familiar
8. Int +1
9. Intensify Spell or Big Game Hunter, and Misfortune or Spell Binding or Flight

Not sure the best way to go here?


I should say that my guy is going to be running through the mythic AP and will gain mythicness at level 6. So from that point on he'll never need to cast defensively again. This is why I chose Power Attack over Lunge. I'm duel-pathing Arc and Champ.
One thing I noticed is that the Magus needs those swift actions to use his arcana points meaning I'll have to take Coupled Arcana if I want to use either wild arcana or fleet charge with the Magus abilities. In fact Coupled Arcana is probably more important than Competent Caster.


Other than a circlet of persuasion, what other items are good for increasing ones intimidate skill seeing how is going to start with a negative in charisma!

Dark Archive

Headband of Intelligence and key the skill to intimidate. Will keep your skill ranks maxxed so you can spend your points elsewhere.


So with Natural Spell Combat back in the mix to allow the hair build can I pull this of by level 4? Is it possible to choose the Natural Spell Combat (Hair) without having any hair to fight with until level 4.

1st Enforcer or Rhyme Spell
3rd Arcana: Natural Spell combat(Hair)
4th Hex: Prehensile Hair


Ok, I'm not seeing why this hex would get iterative attacks with the hair at full BAB. Natural attacks don't normally get iterative attacks. What am I missing?

Hexcrafter Guide wrote:

Prehensile Hair: I don't like the standard action to activate but this is a reach attack using your best ability score on a class that is wedded to one handed weapons. It is effectively an extra 'hand' that can hold a wand (so can a familiar though). Would be green but for the fact it can also get you out of trouble when tied up. When was the last time the enemy shaved your head/eyebrows when you were captured? The gravy is it's a PRIMARY NATURAL ATTACK so all your iterative attacks are at FULL BAB.


An item of note I am having fun with is the MAGNATIST Glove.

Let's you do a disarm CM from 30 feet away.
So use Spell Combat to combine the True Strike spell with the CM to rip a foes's weapon away from a distance. Good fun on tje right target.

Dark Archive

Alex Mack wrote:

So with Natural Spell Combat back in the mix to allow the hair build can I pull this of by level 4? Is it possible to choose the Natural Spell Combat (Hair) without having any hair to fight with until level 4.

1st Enforcer or Rhyme Spell
3rd Arcana: Natural Spell combat(Hair)
4th Hex: Prehensile Hair

Not necessary actually. Remember the prehensile hair is an attack that is a hand based attack so doesn't need the natural spell arcana to function. You will only need that arcana if you want to spellcombat with pincers, wings, hooves, tentacles, etc now.

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