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Ok so I would really like to join in on Pathfinder Society after talking to my friends for a bit. I've played a good deal of 3.5 and enough of pathfinder to know a bit about summoner. I would like to go for the archetype, Synthesist. I had a idea for what I wanted to do, but I'm unsure how a few things would work.
First off, is a Synthesist legal for Pathfinder Society? I read in the rules that only 1 archetype is banned from ultimate magic, brood master.
Second, how would it work for it/me to wield weapons? Proficiencies, bonuses, multiple attacks, all that good stuff.
Third, anything at a table I should be worried about? I've played before but it was always with a tight knit group of guys and girls, I don't know what to exactly expect from a standardized GM.
Fourth, I'm a number cruncher at heart and even when I try to role play something I always find myself optimizing, I hate it some times, but how much is it frowned upon?
Fifth, how many of the rules books can I assume that the GM has access to? I read that the core rule book and the bestiary are assumed, but any others?
Sixth, I read that you get a chronicle after every session/module, but cannot attain any more on subsequent plays. Lets say for all intensive purposes that I have complete all the modules in all the world with 1 of my characters, can I have another character who runs one of those modules still get rewards or am I SOL?
TL;DR
1: Is Synthesist banned for Society?
2: How do weapon wielding Eidolons work?
3: Stuff to expect at the table.
4: Is optimization frowned at?
5: what rule books do GMs have?
6: can I get rewards on multiple characters on the same module?
Thanks for your time, I know it's a long one.
They follow the same rules as in a home game, not including house rules.
1. There is a website listed in the PF Society Handbook that list all things that are banned. The book is availible for download.
2. That information is in the class. I point that out because many people don't read the summoner class, and make a lot of mistakes. This makes them more powerful than they should be.
3. what do you mean?
4. That varies by table, and the extent of optimisation.
5. All PF official books are allowed, unless specifically banned.
6. You can only run one character during one session, but you can run different characters thought the same adventure at different sessions, IIRC.
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They follow the same rules as in a home game, not including house rules.
1. There is a website listed in the PF Society Handbook that list all things that are banned. The book is availible for download.
2. That information is in the class. I point that out because many people don't read the summoner class, and make a lot of mistakes. This makes them more powerful than they should be.
3. what do you mean?
4. That varies by table, and the extent of optimisation.
5. All PF official books are allowed, unless specifically banned.
6. You can only run one character during one session, but you can run different characters thought the same adventure at different sessions, IIRC.
1: ok well I guess I will assume it works then
2: it says in great detail "natural" attacks, I'm looking for the rules for if it wields lets say a longsword. Which I don't see any explicit rules for.
3: what are common differences from a normal kind of home brew game. Besides the obvious...
4: thanks
5: Just double checking
6: so I can have a level 7 barbarian do the same module that my level 11 wizard already complete, got it.
# 6 is partially wrong. You can re-run the same scenario (if the GM allows - you have to tell him that you've run it before). But you will only get credit for it the first time you run through it.
The only way to get credit for a scenario twice is if you also GM it.
...there are also some special rules about Tier 1 scenarios, which can be re-run indefinitely (at least as GM, I'm not sure about it if you're a player).
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# 6 is partially wrong. You can re-run the same scenario (if the GM allows - you have to tell him that you've run it before). But you will only get credit for it the first time you run through it.
The only way to get credit for a scenario twice is if you also GM it.
...there are also some special rules about Tier 1 scenarios, which can be re-run indefinitely (at least as GM, I'm not sure about it if you're a player).
ok then how does it work, so I only get credit once, so that means if I get a "maxed" character and decide to roll up a new on, if I just get rotten luck and get all the same modules my new character gets nothing?
Yep. Which makes it hard to play sometimes - if the group you play with have all played different scenarios at some point in the past.
We use a huge excel-sheet where all the scenarios are plotted in.
For example, when we're going to play on monday, we were goin to play a tier 7-11 scenario, but because everyone can't be there, we're gonna wait with that, because there are so few scenarios left that people haven't played. Instead we'll be playing a tier 5-9 scenario, but there we only have 2 scenarios to choose from if no-one at the tabel should have played them before.
And yeah, you can get unlucky as well.
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Lets see if I can help.
First off, the Synthesist is a very complicated class. I do not recommend it for your first PC in PFS. There is a lot of erratta for it that must be followed and it's complexity allows for a lot of abuse.
You admit to being a min/maxer. That combined with a Synthesist will probably remove any challenge to the game and have your fellow players annoyed with you for keeping them from participating. In PFS you are part of a team - not a solo player.
Min/maxing is fine in PFS, but only if you play your weaknesses too and ensure that everyone has a chance to participate.
Synthesists can be a real headache for a PFS GM. A lot of them are not familiar with the archtype and will question a lot of the powers leading to game delays. Those that are, will definately want to audit your PC to make sure you are following all the rules also leading to game delays.
But if you have your heart set on playing one ...
You will need to own copies of the Advanced Players Guide and Ultimate Magic and bring them to every game. Even if a GM has his own copy you will need your own in order to "unlock" access to non-core items.
You will need to bring a copy of all the FAQ entries relating to your PC and a current copy of the Additional Resources list. Otherwise your GM should not allow you to play that PC.
You will need to be familiar with exactly how the archtype works and play accordingly. Otherwise your GM may ask you to leave the table for repeated offences.
As to running out of adventures, there are over 100 scenarios and quite a few modules (with most equal to three scenarios in credit/length). Playing under normal advancement (three scenarios per level), you will only use 33 scenarios to reach level 12. And new scenarios and modules are added every month. To quote Jay Lenno, "don't worry, they'll make more."
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well I'm just a huge fan of Summoner, and archetypes seem easy enough, you pick it when the earliest level you can replace a skill is and you stick to it, my big thing is that I have a idea for what I want this character to feel like and I want to avoid annoying a GM with the the whole multiple attacks. Because that is one confusing thing, because it goes into great depth with natural attacks and how many you can make at what level and how the first one is a primary and the rest are like "off-handed" natural attacks with half strength. If any on can link me to a resource, or forum post related to this?
So I guess there is a "finite" amount of adventures, got it, but then lets say if I get a chronicle sheet on one guy and it has like this amazing staff that I want for a wizard, is there any way for me to grab this item for my wizard or all the items "locked" to my first character.
If that is the case maybe when you role up new characters you can choose to have them be a "apprentice" of your first to have partial access to loot and goods that your other has attained (with proper respect to level, fame, and Prestige. Just a idea for long time players is all)
"all the FAQ entries relating to your PC" -Don Walker, where might I find this? The resources should be easy enough, just have the books on hand then keep tabs in all important pages for quick reference to keep the game going.
thanks for all the feedback :D
on a unrelated note, what is your favorite god/demi god/false god/pseudo god, and why ^^
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Note that you're never required to attack with any or all of your available natural attacks. If you're planning on swinging a sword and don't want to figure out the ins and outs of mixing manufactured and natural weapons into a single attack routine, simply choose not to execute natural attacks. It's not like that will horribly gimp you or anything.
archetypes seem easy enough, you pick it when the earliest level you can replace a skill is and you stick to it
Generally, you should probably choose all your archetypes when you create the character.
Alternate Class Features: "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."
I want to avoid annoying a GM with the the whole multiple attacks. Because that is one confusing thing, because it goes into great depth with natural attacks and how many you can make at what level and how the first one is a primary and the rest are like "off-handed" natural attacks with half strength. If any on can link me to a resource, or forum post related to this?
Natural Attacks (CRB, Combat chapter)
Natural Attacks (Bestiary, Universal Monster Rules)So I guess there is a "finite" amount of adventures, got it, but then lets say if I get a chronicle sheet on one guy and it has like this amazing staff that I want for a wizard, is there any way for me to grab this item for my wizard or all the items "locked" to my first character.
The chronicle sheet only applies to the character that received it.
"all the FAQ entries relating to your PC" -Don Walker, where might I find this?
Click the Help/FAQ link at the top right of every page at paizo.com, then under "More FAQs" click the product containing the relevant clarification.
You also may want to bring a copy of the most recent Additional Resources for Your Character page.
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Generally, you should probably choose all your archetypes when you create the character.
Alternate Class Features: "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."
PFS actually has a special rule that you can pick an archetype any time before reaching the first level where something actually changes.
So I guess there is a "finite" amount of adventures, got it, but then lets say if I get a chronicle sheet on one guy and it has like this amazing staff that I want for a wizard, is there any way for me to grab this item for my wizard or all the items "locked" to my first character.
If you really want that chronicle for another character, GM the scenario. You'll get a second chronicle sheet, and can apply it to any legal PC who doesn't already have it. You can get a total of 1 player chronicle and 1 GM chronicle for any given scenario. (The exception is First Steps, which can be played or GM'd for credit any number of times.)
PFS actually has a special rule that you can pick an archetype any time before reaching the first level where something actually changes.
Hey, that's really neat. Super handy for people who don't know about certain options until after their first game.
I guess you could get the book wording to fit that, too, by using "selects a class" as "select your new class level" while leveling up.
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As a PFS player (and VC) with a synthesist all I can say is "please don't".
Synthesists are a huge rules gray area. Both you and your GM need to be up on things like Armor stacking, equipment dual use, how healing and conditions work, and a lot of minor rules that players normally don't deal with. As a first character its an awful choice.
Now add these problems to the other half. Synthesist characters (and usually by extension their players) become the pariah of the table. I've watched two tables now where the synthesist, by extension of its power have completely ruined the game experience for the other five players and the table's GM. When the errata came out I used it as a chance to deliberately underpower myself and I still feel like a complete jerk when I run her.
If you like summoner you should play one, but stay far away from the synthesist.
If you know the rules the class would be ok, but if you don't know the rules well then the GM will not be happy as he will have to be watching everything you do in addition to running running the game. I am not a PFS GM, but what I do for home games is require a player to know whatever he is playing. If I have to keep correcting the player he will be "asked" to play something else.
With that aside hi level optimisation is not really good in PFS unless the entire table is doing it.
That first paragraph applies to regular summoners also.
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As a PFS player (and VC) with a synthesist all I can say is "please don't".
Synthesists are a huge rules gray area. Both you and your GM need to be up on things like Armor stacking, equipment dual use, how healing and conditions work, and a lot of minor rules that players normally don't deal with. As a first character its an awful choice.
Now add these problems to the other half. Synthesist characters (and usually by extension their players) become the pariah of the table. I've watched two tables now where the synthesist, by extension of its power have completely ruined the game experience for the other five players and the table's GM. When the errata came out I used it as a chance to deliberately underpower myself and I still feel like a complete jerk when I run her.
If you like summoner you should play one, but stay far away from the synthesist.
well I'm just really going for a melee caster, which cleric was changed quite a bit from 3.5 to pathfinder so it's not the same niche I wanted. So I've played summoner, and the big thing is that I have no idea how the rules work for Weapon attacks, such as if I'm wielding a great sword would I only get the 1 attack and so forth if I'm fused with my eidolon, because I use it's BAB and it's physical attributes so it would make sense to say that I would use it's stats.
Armor stacking is not hard, your armor does not apply if you are "fused" you only get the natural armor bonus from you beastie.
Healing, how I would think it works is that you can only heal yourself as a summoner unless a spell specifically for your eidolon.
For the sake of conditions you are one person, so I would say you get the physical attributes of your eidolon, but you have to add them to your saves, then success or fail it hurts you.
but I see what your getting at I just want to go after a certain kind of thing, if Favored Soul was available, I would play that and what not. It's just I don't want to play a normal summoner as I've played one 3 times now.
If you know the rules the class would be ok, but if you don't know the rules well then the GM will not be happy as he will have to be watching everything you do in addition to running running the game. I am not a PFS GM, but what I do for home games is require a player to know whatever he is playing. If I have to keep correcting the player he will be "asked" to play something else.
With that aside hi level optimisation is not really good in PFS unless the entire table is doing it.
That first paragraph applies to regular summoners also.
that's why I'm asking to avoid hangups and try to make this work >.>
As a PFS player (and VC) with a synthesist all I can say is "please don't".
Synthesists are a huge rules gray area. Both you and your GM need to be up on things like Armor stacking, equipment dual use, how healing and conditions work, and a lot of minor rules that players normally don't deal with. As a first character its an awful choice.
Now add these problems to the other half. Synthesist characters (and usually by extension their players) become the pariah of the table. I've watched two tables now where the synthesist, by extension of its power have completely ruined the game experience for the other five players and the table's GM. When the errata came out I used it as a chance to deliberately underpower myself and I still feel like a complete jerk when I run her.
If you like summoner you should play one, but stay far away from the synthesist.
well I'm just really going for a melee caster, which cleric was changed quite a bit from 3.5 to pathfinder so it's not the same niche I wanted. So I've played summoner, and the big thing is that I have no idea how the rules work for Weapon attacks, such as if I'm wielding a great sword would I only get the 1 attack and so forth if I'm fused with my eidolon, because I use it's BAB and it's physical attributes so it would make sense to say that I would use it's stats.
Armor stacking is not hard, your armor does not apply if you are "fused" you only get the natural armor bonus from you beastie.
Healing, how I would think it works is that you can only heal yourself as a summoner unless a spell specifically for your eidolon.
For the sake of conditions you are one person, so I would say you get the physical attributes of your eidolon, but you have to add them to your saves, then success or fail it hurts you.
but I see what your getting at I just want to go after a certain kind of thing, if Favored Soul was available, I would play that and what not. It's just I don't want to play a normal summoner as I've played one 3...
The hangups are scattered everywhere. I would make one, and submit it to the local PFS GM. I would also submit it to the boards. It is easier to critique a build, than for us to try to remember all the issues that come up, IMO.
What concept are you going for? That might be a better starting place.
The bard can be pretty good in melee, and the inquisitor is not bad either. The cleric can be good in melee also, but it is not what it was in 3.5, and neither is the druid. A battle oracle might also work.
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Note that you're never required to attack with any or all of your available natural attacks. If you're planning on swinging a sword and don't want to figure out the ins and outs of mixing manufactured and natural weapons into a single attack routine, simply choose not to execute natural attacks. It's not like that will horribly gimp you or anything.
At second level I have never used a natural attack with my synthesist.
At level 1 my daughter deals just as much damage, if not more, with her longspear as she does with bite/claw/claw. This is especially true when fighting monsters that have DR.
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T.T I'm just trying to figure out how a Synthesist wielding a weapon would work that's all, that's all I need to know right now. Can just some one point me in the right direction, I've looked all over and can find mounds of material on natural attacks, but little as scraps for Weapons. I came to the rules section in order to make sure my idea can actually work, all I've gotten was some posts about how I should not play a Synthesist and how my table etiquette will suck because I will flaunt my amazing character and gimp any of the other player just from the get go because I have a tendency to optimize. I just want to rules or something so I can figure this out please?
Jiggy said it above, but Magus is pretty much the definition of melee caster.
(although some will also argue that they are also OP) :P You can't win.
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Grick already gave you some links in this post, but perhaps you missed it. It's possible people were focusing on advice because they figured you'd already had the technical questions answered due to that post.
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T.T I'm just trying to figure out how a Synthesist wielding a weapon would work that's all, that's all I need to know right now. Can just some one point me in the right direction, I've looked all over and can find mounds of material on natural attacks, but little as scraps for Weapons. I came to the rules section in order to make sure my idea can actually work, all I've gotten was some posts about how I should not play a Synthesist and how my table etiquette will suck because I will flaunt my amazing character and gimp any of the other player just from the get go because I have a tendency to optimize. I just want to rules or something so I can figure this out please?
If you are using a weapon and natural attacks:
1. all natural attacks are secondary (-5 to hit, 1/2 str bonus)
2. you cannot use a natural attack on a limb used to hold a weapon
I reccomend keeping a printed copy of the FAQ with your character.
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Grick already gave you some links in this post, but perhaps you missed it. It's possible people were focusing on advice because they figured you'd already had the technical questions answered due to that post.
yes which explains natural attacks, but I'm going for a Synthesist that wields a greatsword using his eidolon for physical stats and I wondering how a full round attack would work, would I only get the +6 to hit and deal 2d6+3 or would I get +6/+1 and deal 2d6+3/2d6+3. It's more about a question of a full round attack rather then the eidolon at all.
Jiggy said it above, but Magus is pretty much the definition of melee caster.
(although some will also argue that they are also OP) :P You can't win.
everything is OP we should all play peasants...
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Grick already gave you some links in this post, but perhaps you missed it. It's possible people were focusing on advice because they figured you'd already had the technical questions answered due to that post.yes which explains natural attacks, but I'm going for a Synthesist that wields a greatsword using his eidolon for physical stats and I wondering how a full round attack would work, would I only get the +6 to hit and deal 2d6+3 or would I get +6/+1 and deal 2d6+3/2d6+3. It's more about a question of a full round attack rather then the eidolon at all.
So you're not planning on using natural attacks at all? In that case, why would your attack routine work any differently than that of a fighter? Core rules for combat always apply unless your class/feats/whatever specifically make an exception for you. Classes are not discrete rules entities that exist in a vacuum, each needing to be learned from the ground up. They all function within the same Core Rules framework.
all I've gotten was some posts about how I should not play a Synthesist and how my table etiquette will suck because I will flaunt my amazing character and gimp any of the other player just from the get go because I have a tendency to optimize.
Well, to be fair, you did ask:
3: Stuff to expect at the table.
4: Is optimization frowned at?
The responses you've gotten undoubtedly reflect the negative experiences that the writers have had with the archetype.
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all I've gotten was some posts about how I should not play a Synthesist and how my table etiquette will suck because I will flaunt my amazing character and gimp any of the other player just from the get go because I have a tendency to optimize.Well, to be fair, you did ask:
The responses you've gotten undoubtedly reflect the negative experiences that the writers have had with the archetype.
3: Stuff to expect at the table.
4: Is optimization frowned at?
yes I did ask, but there are other questions as well...
Because it looks like these haven't been answered yet:
So I guess there is a "finite" amount of adventures, got it, but then lets say if I get a chronicle sheet on one guy and it has like this amazing staff that I want for a wizard, is there any way for me to grab this item for my wizard or all the items "locked" to my first character.
If that is the case maybe when you role up new characters you can choose to have them be a "apprentice" of your first to have partial access to loot and goods that your other has attained (with proper respect to level, fame, and Prestige. Just a idea for long time players is all)
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. In general, the first time you play the adventure is the only time you get the Chronicle sheet, or access to anything that's on the sheet. (I say "in general" because there are a small number of adventures, such as the "First Steps" trilogy, which can be replayed with Chronicle access.) Even if "character #2" is the apprentice / son / heir of "character #1", nothing is transferable between those characters.
Also, you should note that replaying an adventure, in general, is supposed to be a bit of a special case. It's mostly meant as a way to make a table happen (i.e., there aren't enough players at the event to meet the minimum table size, unless someone replays). And, allowing you to replay is at the GM's discretion.
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Grick already gave you some links in this post, but perhaps you missed it. It's possible people were focusing on advice because they figured you'd already had the technical questions answered due to that post.yes which explains natural attacks, but I'm going for a Synthesist that wields a greatsword using his eidolon for physical stats and I wondering how a full round attack would work, would I only get the +6 to hit and deal 2d6+3 or would I get +6/+1 and deal 2d6+3/2d6+3. It's more about a question of a full round attack rather then the eidolon at all.
Use standard iterative attack rules with weapons. Secondary attacks have no impact on this.
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Grick already gave you some links in this post, but perhaps you missed it. It's possible people were focusing on advice because they figured you'd already had the technical questions answered due to that post.yes which explains natural attacks, but I'm going for a Synthesist that wields a greatsword using his eidolon for physical stats and I wondering how a full round attack would work, would I only get the +6 to hit and deal 2d6+3 or would I get +6/+1 and deal 2d6+3/2d6+3. It's more about a question of a full round attack rather then the eidolon at all.
everything is OP we should all play peasants...Jiggy said it above, but Magus is pretty much the definition of melee caster.
(although some will also argue that they are also OP) :P You can't win.
The Errata on the synthesist says that you must have limbs on your eidolon capable of the weapon (or spell casting) that you are wielding to be able to wield a weapon when you have your hulk suit on.
So as long as you have arms on your Eidolon, you can wield a weapon.
If you want to take natural attacks while wielding your weapon, you can do so as secondary attacks (-5 to hit and 1/2 Str Bonus to damage). And as stated above, you cannot use the limb for a natural attack in which you are using the weapon.
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ok then how does it work, so I only get credit once, so that means if I get a "maxed" character and decide to roll up a new on, if I just get rotten luck and get all the same modules my new character gets nothing?Given the rate at which new adventures come out.
Don't worry about it.
Even at slow rate, you can never play all the scenarios with one character.
There are 4 seasons of ~21 to 28 scenarios available for play, and season 4 (the 5th season) is coming out with another 26 scenarios.
As such, currently available is like at 120 or something.
Most you can play with one character is 66 on slow track, plus 4 retirement arc scenarios.
You could actually get two characters on slow track up to level 12 without running out of scenarios.
That's roughly 3 or 4 on standard advancement.
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Use standard iterative attack rules with weapons. Secondary attacks have no impact on this.Grick already gave you some links in this post, but perhaps you missed it. It's possible people were focusing on advice because they figured you'd already had the technical questions answered due to that post.yes which explains natural attacks, but I'm going for a Synthesist that wields a greatsword using his eidolon for physical stats and I wondering how a full round attack would work, would I only get the +6 to hit and deal 2d6+3 or would I get +6/+1 and deal 2d6+3/2d6+3. It's more about a question of a full round attack rather then the eidolon at all.
now I'm confused X.X
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Use standard iterative attack rules with weapons. Secondary attacks have no impact on this.now I'm confused X.X
If you have +6/+1 BAB and a sword in your hand, you can swing said sword twice in a full-attack: once at +6 BAB and once at +1 BAB. Just like anyone else with +6 BAB and a sword can do.
That's why no one is showing you rules on how synthesists work with weapons; because they use the same rules as every other weapon-wielding creature in the entire game.
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well I'm just really going for a melee caster, which cleric was changed quite a bit from 3.5 to pathfinder so it's not the same niche I wanted. So I've played summoner, and the big thing is that I have no idea how the rules work for Weapon attacks, such as if I'm wielding a great sword would I only get the 1 attack and so forth if I'm fused with my eidolon, because I use it's BAB and it's physical attributes so it would make sense to say that I would use it's stats.
Melee casters are available in a number of options - Magus, Battle or Metal Oracle, Eldritch Knight, etc.
I think you may have misinterpreted my list, it wasn't there to give you four specific elements that you should worry about, it was given as examples of elements that do and have caused problems at the table. In fact, a number of your answers were contrary to how the FAQs describe them.
Armor stacking is not hard, your armor does not apply if you are "fused" you only get the natural armor bonus from you beastie.
More than just that. What if you take a +2 natural armor aspect, does that stack? What if you're wearing a ring of protection? Armor may stack, but the whole "you and your eidolon are the same thing" is nothing but murder in adjudicating these things, and each table will be different. It even extends out to belts of str/dex/con and headbands of wis/int/cha and other items. Item stacking and synthesists is hard to remember to adjudicate properly.
Healing, how I would think it works is that you can only heal yourself as a summoner unless a spell specifically for your eidolon.
Again, worse than that. Your Eidolon are temporary hit points, they're not even "hit points" in the strictest sense. Which means yous tack more confusing rules on it all. Fast healing won't effect your Eidolon, but rejuvinate eidolon does.
For the sake of conditions you are one person, so I would say you get the physical attributes of your eidolon, but you have to add them to your saves, then success or fail it hurts you.
But you're not. That's outlined in the FAQ. Your eidolon has a different set of stats than you, which means they take damage. All very confusing to the GM to have to keep up with.
but I see what your getting at I just want to go after a certain kind of thing, if Favored Soul was available, I would play that and what not.
Try an Oracle of Battle. For all intents and purposes it is a favored soul. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm adamantly trying to talk you away from a Synthesist, because I am...for the reasons noted above, and the previous reasons in my last post about their position as table pariah.
I didn't see anyone mention this yet but if you really want to get a chronicle sheet for a different character after playing the scenario you can always GM the scenario / mod. This is the only other way to get a chronicle sheet twice for a non-1st level adventure.
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Use standard iterative attack rules with weapons. Secondary attacks have no impact on this.now I'm confused X.XIf you have +6/+1 BAB and a sword in your hand, you can swing said sword twice in a full-attack: once at +6 BAB and once at +1 BAB. Just like anyone else with +6 BAB and a sword can do.
That's why no one is showing you rules on how synthesists work with weapons; because they use the same rules as every other weapon-wielding creature in the entire game.
THANK YOU, ok thats exactly what I wanted, sorry that took so long. I don't normally play fighters is all. I'm a caster kinda guy.
Thanks every one!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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In the future, when you want to know how a concept central to the game (such as attacking with a weapon) works, you might consider investigating likely sections of the Core Rulebook (in this case, the combat chapter).
With all due respect, if you're not comfortable enough with the rules that you can recognize a question as being universal enough that you can assume it's in the CRB and make a reasonable guess as to where to look to find your answer, then you are not ready to play a complicated class like the summoner, especially the synthesist. I suggest playing a Core class like a cleric (still one of the best classes in the game, BTW) until you're a little more fluent in the basics, then maybe try something more tricky like a magus or a monk, and maybe THEN try the synthesist.
But right now? You're just asking for trouble. For your own sake, I strongly advise shelving this idea for now. You're only going to frustrate yourself.
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In the future, when you want to know how a concept central to the game (such as attacking with a weapon) works, you might consider investigating likely sections of the Core Rulebook (in this case, the combat chapter).
With all due respect, if you're not comfortable enough with the rules that you can recognize a question as being universal enough that you can assume it's in the CRB and make a reasonable guess as to where to look to find your answer, then you are not ready to play a complicated class like the summoner, especially the synthesist. I suggest playing a Core class like a cleric (still one of the best classes in the game, BTW) until you're a little more fluent in the basics, then maybe try something more tricky like a magus or a monk, and maybe THEN try the synthesist.
But right now? You're just asking for trouble. For your own sake, I strongly advise shelving this idea for now. You're only going to frustrate yourself.
This!
If you don't know the rudimentary rules (no problem with that while you are new to the system) well enough to understand how swinging a sword works, then I REALLY REALLY REALLY suggest you don't play a Synthesist.
First off I'm going to echo that your probably not ready to play a synthie as your first character. But if youa re going to anyway, I'll try and help you with natural attacks, the rules of which come from the Bestiary.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
Ok, so let me use an example. Let's say you are wearing your eidolon who has two claws and a bite natural attacks. And you want to use a Greatsword.
Let's say you have the bite primary and the claws. And a max natural attack rate of 3
You'd get three attacks as a full attack action. Bite at Full BAB & Str mod Damage, and then 2 claws at BAB minus 5, 1/2 Str mod damage.
If you use the greatsword you'd replace the two claw attacks with the greatsword since they are holding the greatsword and you have to give up natural attacks to use the weapon. If you had used a longsword you'd have only given up one claw.
So you'd have Greatsword at Full BAB and Str + 1/2 mod damage, and a bite at BAB minus 5 1/2 strength mod damage.
Now let's say you have a tentacle, a tail, a bite, and a great sword and the same max attack rate. Even though you aren't holding the weapon with your natural attacks you still have to give one up to weild the weapon. Because the weapon attack has to replace one of your natural attacks.
Also you don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons, but you do with the main weapon. In this case every attack you make with the weapon has to replace one of your natural attacks. So if you can make 4 natural attacks, and have a BAB of +6 you could make 2 natural attacks and 2 weapon attacks at most.
I've probably jumbled something up but I hope this helps.
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Jeffrey, the main thing I see that you got wrong was that you only need to give up a natural attack, if the limb that natural attack is associated with is using the weapon.
If you give up claws to use a two-handed weapon, of which you have a main attack and two iterative attacks. You don't have to give up your bite, tentacle or tail slap attacks just to get your iterative attacks.
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In the future, when you want to know how a concept central to the game (such as attacking with a weapon) works, you might consider investigating likely sections of the Core Rulebook (in this case, the combat chapter).
With all due respect, if you're not comfortable enough with the rules that you can recognize a question as being universal enough that you can assume it's in the CRB and make a reasonable guess as to where to look to find your answer, then you are not ready to play a complicated class like the summoner, especially the synthesist. I suggest playing a Core class like a cleric (still one of the best classes in the game, BTW) until you're a little more fluent in the basics, then maybe try something more tricky like a magus or a monk, and maybe THEN try the synthesist.
But right now? You're just asking for trouble. For your own sake, I strongly advise shelving this idea for now. You're only going to frustrate yourself.
the reason I asked was in the tables for the eidolon it does not say multiple attacks, but has a BAB equal to it's HD. In classes like fighter it goes +11/+6/+1 in the BAB section. And I read the base rule book for what you said looking at BAB, Attacks, full round actions, more then one attack and so forth. The reason why I asked is it is confusing because usually there is no rule oversights.
Also the line "With all due respect," is basically a nice way of saying eat S#@$.
The reason I asked in the first place all of these questions is that there is no straight answer for them in the rules. I've never been to a Pathfinder society game, but I have played quite a few characters in private play.
I didn't see anyone mention this yet but if you really want to get a chronicle sheet for a different character after playing the scenario you can always GM the scenario / mod. This is the only other way to get a chronicle sheet twice for a non-1st level adventure.Quite frankly though from your responses here, Aezion, I'd have to say that you have a good deal of learning to get under your belt before you GM a PFS table. While the Synthesist is one of the bigger corner cases of judging PFS, it's far from the only one you'll have to deal with.,
I asked one rule question, how does that equate to me not being a GM? I don't have the experience and probably won't, but I find one question for clarification hardly excludes me from the running >.>
in fact the reason why I asked was the line
"This is the eidolon’s base attack bonus. An eidolon’s base attack bonus is equal to its Hit Dice. Eidolons do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus."
which is confusing when dealing with weapons on a eidolon in my opinion.
Director of Brand Strategy
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This discussion is not really Pathfinder Society-specific, despite the character in question being designed for a Pathfinder Society game. The synthesist summoner (and summoner in general) work the same way in Pathfinder Society as they do in normal play, so I'm removing the Pathfinder Society reference from this thread title and moving it to the main rules discussion forum.