Can a Human with the Racial Heritage feat take levels in Racial Class Archetypes?
Okay, just a moment here.
Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Seems to me, the feat allows you to count as the said race for more than just "effects".I have read the APG FAQ, and the errata on favored class bonuses refers to the Half-elf and Half-orc ability, who cannot take human favored class bonuses, which is a different thing.
If it were easily answered, then I would not ask.
The "and so on" portion is especially revealing, and suggests it could be done, but of course, I am looking to be sure.
"not an effect" = it works?
"not an effect" = not granted by Racial Heritage.
The following racial archetypes are available to dwarves.
Is this a prerequisite, and as such an effect related to race? It's not stated that way. You can just take one if you're a dwarf. Arguably, it's the same situation as a racial favoured class bonus - worth a FAQ one way or the other, I think.
No... Classes, Archetypes are NOT Effects. Effects are things that are done onto you, i.e.spells, bane weapon strikes, those sorts of things. You get take what the trait SPECIFICALLY states what you can take, nothing else. Traits, feats, that's it.
Not an effect means it doesn't work. It's only barely a different thing. In both cases it's something that lets you count as a different race. We know that FCBs are not an effect, and that's not specific to races.
Racial archetypes are only for the race they are for unless you get gm permission. If there were ways around that, I am sure that the ARG would've specified.
Is qualifying for a Racial Archetype different than qualifying for a Prestige Class?
Yes. Archetypes are not Prestige classes.
The portion here:
Advanced Race Guide wrote:
Leads me to believe there are atypical cases in which a member of another race can take a racial archetype.
The tough part is the "and so on". It's reasonable to think that archetypes fall into the category of "traits, feats, and so on", but you can equally reasonably argue that they don't. Definitely fodder for a clarification.
effects are not defined anywhere as far as I can see, So there isn't a distinction.Considering it qualifies you for feats and traits, it's pretty obvious it's meant to include prerequisites, and the list is deliberately non-exhaustive, invalidating your statement's end entirely.
"...purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on."
looks like its gm discretion to me, BUT since you technically choose your class before you choose your feats i dont think you would qualify for the archetype after you apply the feat.
Without any changes I'd say they can't prograss further.As they would lose access to racial feats.
But you could ask the same for PrC. If you lose any prerequisites for a PrC, do you lose that classes benefits and can you still advance in that class?
It seems highly odd to me that the intent could be for half-elves and half-orcs to have three times the amount of new things without explicitly mentioning it. You would think that they'd mention something so huge if it were the intent.
Addendum question: If they can, what separates favored class options from archetypes?
The fact that you can choose a different favored class option at each level if you'd like. You don't have to choose a skill point at every level just because you did at first level, you can take a hit point or an alternate favored class bonus instead. Archetypes are all-or-nothing, if you choose an archetype it affects every level of the class it's modifying, forever.
That argument doesn't work because feats are called out as an effect in some places, and you aren't locked in to those either.
Wait... I don't understand what you mean. I never tried to say feats aren't ever effects, I think some feats possibly are effects. But most feats are the cause of specific effects.
Either way, I'm not sure what that has to do with favored class options and the like.
Edit: BTW, I feel like this thread has brought out all the "stars" of the paizo forums more than any other I've recently been a part of. Cheapy, blackbloodtroll, Ravingdork, I see your names EVERYWHERE on the forums. I always like to see members who are vocal on forums for long periods of time and not just someone who jumps in for a week or so, starts a war, and GTFOs.
I would think taking the feat would qualify you except that it would be required that you multiclass. Because you can't take a archetype after you start the class and can't take a feat until after you take a class you can't do this at 1st level. Thus, while it can be done, it requires a lot of work around.
The same applies when leveling up.
I also hit FAQ though. good question!
I don't think the steps are quite that set in stone. For example, I'm pretty sure that it's come up on these forums before and devs have chimed in saying that you can take an archetype later on as long as none of the class features that you already have would have been changed by the archetype. (For example, if a Paladin archetype changes just the Divine Bond ability, you could take it up until 4th level, etc.)
The APG (page72) indicates "When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."
That would say otherwise. But it is just my interpretation of the raw. Though the only thread I could find on the subject seemed to agree with me. That being said in one of my games I would allow it if someone had the back story to back it up. The racial archetypes have more to do with culture than blood anyways :-D
I had a similar question to this feat. If I took the Racial Heritage; Dwarf would I then be able to use dwarven weapons as if I was a dwarf? i.e. would I be able to use the dwarven war axe as a martial weapon (since I am dwarven blooded and I am considered a dwarf under the , and so on, category).
Also if you can take racial traits and be affected by bane weapons to that specific race, then I think you should also be allowed to advance in those classes or paragon classes associated with your other racial heritage.
Just dropping a few copper pieces down.
I think that when all is said and done, if the group you are in agrees with the idea (one way or the other) then the group will run with it.
Regardless of the rest of the argument, Racial Heritage would never allow you access to racial traits (such as dwarven weapon familiarity or halfling slow speed) without an additional feat specifically allowing you to do that. In short, counting as an orc does not give you darkvision any more than counting as a dwarf gives you dwarven weapon familiarity.
And neither would feats be effects, right? Nor traits. There are not things that are done onto you, but rather things you choose based on what you count as.
But as these are expressly allowed, I'm thinking the interpretation is flawed.
I'm thinking that you count for qualifying for classes just as you do for qualifying for feats. If you're dwarven enough for a feat, then you're dwarven enough for a class.
For that matter, how does the elf blood racial trait of half-elves compare? Since the racial trait is described in almost identical terms to the racial heritage feat, does the racial heritage feat serve to explain what a half-elf can achieve with his elf blood racial trait (i.e. that he can take feats and traits that require you to be human/elf?
Furious Kender wrote:
That is why I stated that I can understand physical attributes. A weapon familiarity is not a specif racial trait such as darkvision or low light vision. The use of items (dwarven or elven or what ever) is more a cultural decision then a racial one. I understand that weapon familiarity is due to being around those items and there fore you can use them, just like the elf who can use a bow regardless of class. If your heritage is such that you expend the feat to pick up the traits and mannerism of the culture you are adopting, then you should be able to pick up those skills and non-physical aspects of the race.
I have notice that most people here treat weapon familiarity as if it was a racial (as in born with) ability, I see weapon familiarity as just being around those weapons so often and using or handling them on such a regular basis, that they are just normal (martial) weapons to you.
Agreed, a race could also easily gain access to the other racial traits available via this feat, where there any that actually replaced each other. Basically for all intents and purpose, you are what it says you are.
The only question I have, is can I take RH; Assimar since ARG came out with an alt race trait that changes their type.