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Problem at end of whispering cairn, help?


Age of Worms Adventure Path

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

So, our group got to the end of the whispering Cairn tonight, converted for pathfinder. and the fight against the two wind warriors, they completely pulverized us. we barely avoided a TPW. I dont think it was our fault, bad planning, or anything else like that. B/c of pathfinder's leveling system, we are only level 2, and there was no possible way we could have won. They are each CR 4, with six hit dice, and our fighter needed 15's to hit them, and they were regularly hitting AC 20+. I have no idea how we're supposed to fight these. Our GM is slightly confused also. Their CMD was 24 too, it's just crazy. We dont have the HPs, spells or AC to fight these things. and the conversion to pathfinder brings their BAB to +6, giving them three attacks instead of two with a higher attack bonus. How exactly are we supposed to fight these...? It just seems like we were completely out-classed in every way.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I should say, the purpose of my post was advice on what to do, and if this will be a constant problem, or if it's just something that's hitting us really hard b/c of the low levels.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Hmm... I don't follow your comment ' B/c of pathfinder's leveling system, we are only level 2'.
AoW being a 3.5 AP, your GM should be using the Fast Progression. If he isn't, you will find yourself increasingly under-leveled.

That having been said, if my memory serves me right, the encounter you describe has been the single hardest fight our AoW group had during our game (well, at least until the GM thought it prudent to have four encounters converge on us in Spire of Long Shadows, two-rounding the party with a smirk on his face... and then wondering why the game broke apart - but that's another story).
The re-vamp these guys get from becoming pathfinderized doesn't make things any easier, that's for sure.

What is the composition of your group, and what have you been trying?

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

aahh he has us on the med track, that would seriously fix our problem.

we got a kobold wiz/rogue going into arcane trickster
we got an aasimar cleric of bahamut
a suli sorcerer going into dragon disciple
a suli paladin
and a half-elf ranger

Taldor

I have 6 players in my group and have decided to use side treks to get the needed xp's to the party. Seems to be working so far. I estimate they should be lvl 3 by around the time they hit the wind warriors.

Andoran

I'm running this and the group has just finished the Land Farm quest, and are putting together pieces that'll lead them to Filge.

They're all 2nd level(almost 3rd) and I'm running them using the medium track. Fights are tough. But we've done a thing or two here and there to propel them ahead of the curve. Like playing a prelude adventure to add to their exp going into the adventure.

Looking over guardians, he should have fudged them. Yes the fight should be tough. One or two players should be dropped/incapacitated/dying, but not all of you. If you made it out alive, return to Allustan, or one of the other merchants/allies and see if you can't purchase scrolls/magic items to help.

Setting up your Kobold player to flank is a must in this fight for your group. Flanking period is a must.
Fatigue spells are a bonus. Speaking from experience in our last game.
I ran a side-trek involving the Trio(Auric, Khellek and Tirra), the party tried to intimidate/attack Auric while he was outside of town doing his morning exercises. I had bumped his level up to 7, and didn't have his stats at the time, so I pulled the sellsword write up from the Gamemastery guide. He nearly killed them, they're all 2nd and 3rd level. Had our wizard not sat back and cast fatigue over and over at him, he would have run the party down. Same will work on the wind guardians.

You need your "tank" up front and trying to engage them. The wiz/rog either needs to work on backstab/flanking or casting debuff spells like fatigue to slow down the enemy. And the cleric needs make sure he channels energy like a fiend and buff when he can. The Ranger and Sorc need to engage from a distance and cast as many offensive attacks as they can, with the ranger going toe-to-toe only if he can to help out your pally.

Be prepared. That's the biggest thing. You know what you're going into this next time. Rest up, get potions if you can, scrolls if you can afford them, and plan ahead. You can do this!
Good luck.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Um... they're elementals. they're immune to flanking, sneak attacks, crits, fatigue, stunning, non-lethal... Trust me.. We're all experienced players with a solid grasp of tactics. The fact that they're elemental outsiders really screws most of our low level tactics. I attempted to use hydraulic push to get one of them out of flanking position so he wouldnt get a bonus on our fighter, and I got CMD 23, and failed to move him. so they're stats are really high too. Also, I think our DM screwed up again, as I dont know who Allustan is. Thanks for the advice though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Two things stick out in your original post...

Xavier319 wrote:
  • we are only level 2
  • the conversion to pathfinder brings their BAB to +6, giving them three attacks instead of two with a higher attack bonus

You really should be level 3 when you're fighting the wind warriors. So I'd suggest that you either use the fast track for XP, or add in extra side treks.

If a by-the-book conversion creates a significant change in an opponent, then you should consider making an ad hoc adjustment. In this case, I'd tweak the BAB back down.

Finally, there's a wand of shatter in the Lair of the Architect under the cairn. ;-)

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I normally frown on players coming to the boards for spoilers on an encounter they still have to beat; but I will concede there are certain creatures that get a boost once they've been translated from one system to another.

On the flipside, undead were seriously weakened, by allowing them to be subjected to crits and sneak attacks, so overall, I'd say "advantage: players".

I ran this as 3.5, but ported the game to PF at chapter 4.
They were still a pain for the PCs in the earlier rules, so I can imagine they could be worse for you.

Did you manage to flee and regroup outside their chamber?


I've ran this twice after converting to Pathfinder, here's what I did

Spoiler:

I kept the +6 BAB. I changed their Superior Two-Weapon Fighting special ability to giving them two racial feats instead.(Two Weapon Fighting and Double Slice). I also noted their "wind" longswords were considered light weapons.

This balanced out the +2 BAB gained going to pathfinder as they got a -2 due to two-weapon fighting and it kept the full damage in the offhand. True they had a third attack at a -5, but both groups made it through. It helps that they both were at full strength heading into the fight. (Both groups were level 2 as well leveling after this fight.) Both groups had a tougher time with the Sonic Blast then the sword attacks.

I can see adjusting the BAB down to 5 and then making their weapons count as masterwork if that extra attack is bothersome. To balance their hp back give them a bonus racial feat of toughness or add 2 to their con


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The level mismatch sounds like the big killer here. It would probably be better if your DM retired XP and just had you level up around the times the adventures indicate you should. I've found my APs go smoother since I did the same.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

he's decided to bump up us to 3 going into the fight and use the fast track from now on. we're tackling the wind warriors on wed, so wish us luck. the new ARG just came out, so all of us are tweaking our characters to include the new stuff, b/c it's so cool. xD

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm rather concerned you don't know who Allustan is.

Who have you been fencing your loot to, so far?


Since my party has completely destroyed everything I send at them, I will always feel fine cranking up the difficulty. I'm making my mission to take one of them out lol.

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