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Kitsune Feats from the ARG


Rules Questions


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

While Fox Shape, Swift Kitsune Shapechanger, and Vulpine Pounce all have the clause that they can be taken whenever a kitsune would gain a feat, the new one's in the ARG do not mention this.

Is this intentional or an oversight, because I can really see taking Magical Tail for all my sorcerer bonus feats. :D


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Not an oversight, intentional.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

It's a clause that really doesn't need to be stated. AFter all that's an unspoken rule to all feats.... that you can take them when you can take a new feat.

Just don't read anything more than that into it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
It's a clause that really doesn't need to be stated. AFter all that's an unspoken rule to all feats.... that you can take them when you can take a new feat.

Caution: as I read it, the OP interprets the 'when you would gain a Feat' clause as encompassing all those Fighter Bonus Feats, Sorcerer Bloodline Feats, and the like.

Which, unless I am seeing things wrong, do not qualify.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

That's not quite what he's asking. The Fox Shape, Swift Kitsune Shapechanger, and Vulpine Pounce feat have the
"A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat" clause, which means, for instance, he could gain them as a bonus Ranger or Fighter feat.
The ones in the ARG do not have this clause.


Midnight_Angel wrote:
LazarX wrote:
It's a clause that really doesn't need to be stated. AFter all that's an unspoken rule to all feats.... that you can take them when you can take a new feat.

Caution: as I read it, the OP interprets the 'when you would gain a Feat' clause as encompassing all those Fighter Bonus Feats, Sorcerer Bloodline Feats, and the like.

Which, unless I am seeing things wrong, do not qualify.

That's the clause I was referring to.

Kitsune Feats wrote:
Special: A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat.

I interpret this line as referring to any time a kitsune would gain a feat. Any feat. Not just regular feats since it makes no sense to put that in there under the "special" section.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

That's not quite what he's asking. The Fox Shape, Swift Kitsune Shapechanger, and Vulpine Pounce feat have the

"A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat" clause, which means, for instance, he could gain them as a bonus Ranger or Fighter feat.
The ones in the ARG do not have this clause.

That would be one weird corner interpretation which would conflict with the Ranger/Fighter bonus feat mechanics which specifically state which feats are bonus feats.

Now if any of those feats ARE Combat Feats than as far the fighter angle that WOULD be correct.


LazarX why include that line if it didn't mean any time? All the other times you can take the feat anyways.


Why would a racial feat not supersede a class feature. By then listing it as a special benefit, IMO I'd allow it as a GM. An if it truly did mess up the fighter feat mechanics, that be at the players choice, adding more flavor to his/her character, at the risk of slowing down their normal feat progression.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
LazarX why include that line if it didn't mean any time? All the other times you can take the feat anyways.

Because not everyone writes with your demanding standards for text efficiency. People do differ in the way the brain translates thoughts to words and vice versa. The RAI is abundantly clear. Are we getting to the point where we have to call a FAQ everytime someone sees a minor sentence variance?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Not for "every minor sentence variance" no, but when they include a clause that means absolutely *nothing* under one interpretation and then means at least something under another, we're left to wonder.
Did they just waste word count and ink?

I mean *obviously* you can take a feat when you usually can take a feat. That shouldn't ever have to be listed if thats all it means. Its superfluous and a waste of space.

So it has to mean something.
It Could mean that you can take the feat more than once. But they already have language for that- and this isn't it.

So either they totally changed the language for being able to take it at once, or the sentence means nothing at all or it means..

That you can in fact take this feat whenever you could otherwise take a feat. Sure- it contradicts the feat lists for various classes but that doesn't make it invalid. Lots of things in later books change how things work in the original books- it just means it expands on them rather than contradicting them.

Now i'm not saying its good/bad/whatever for these feats to be taken whenever you can get a feat from a class or whatever- but the added sentence for the feats has to mean -something-. And that something shouldn't be what is already the rule for the feats.

-S


ThatEvilGuy wrote:


Kitsune Feats wrote:
Special: A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat.
I interpret this line as referring to any time a kitsune would gain a feat. Any feat. Not just regular feats since it makes no sense to put that in there under the "special" section.

If the Dragon Empires Primer actually presented the feats with the "Special: A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat." line included in each feat description I might accept that as an argument but as it is included as sidebar sub-header, rather than as a part of the individual feats, I'm not remotely convinced it makes a case for overriding class feature limitations.


Why is that line there, then? I can find no other feat, none that I am aware of anyway, that has the "Special: A (character) may select this feat any time she would gain a feat." line. What does it mean? If it doesn't mean that that Kitsune can take those feats as bonus Fighter/Ranger/Sorcerer/whatever feats, then what does that line mean, and why is it there? It seems completely redundant.


My point was that, as written in the Primer, the feat do NOT have a "Special: A (character) may select this feat any time she would gain a feat." line - unless the books been changed since I got mine, and I've not noticed setting books being errata'd.


Looking on the pfsrd I see the "Special" lines in the feats, these do not exist in the book which has the cause as part of the side bar and without the term "Special" used at all.
The alteration in how the pfsrd is presenting the feats makes the line appear much more important and much more like it may override standard feat rules than the presentation in the book.

It hadn't occurred to me to compare with the pfsrd earlier.


See I want to beleive it means they can take the feat any time such as fighter bonus feat etc. because putting the "Special" part in the SRD seems pointless, unless it means "Kitsune can take this even if they don't meat the requirements" which makes even less sense


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I already stated how these work.

I see that nothing has changed in the year since this thread was started, regarding these feats.


Oh hai necromancy!

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