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Potential Dreamscarred Press Kickstarter Discussion


Compatible Products from Other Publishers

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

One of the things that folks have asked us a few times is if we've thought about using Kickstarter for some of our projects.

We've been thinking about using Kickstarter for the combined Psionics Unleashed + Psionics Expanded book, particularly because of the cost of printing hardcover compared to softcover (roughly triple or more the printing cost).

However, we're wondering what sort of bonus goals folks might be interested in, as well as what sort of pledge levels you'd like to see aside from the simple PDF at one level, printed book at another level.

We have some ideas already, but want to see what folks are interested in seeing.


If a kickstarter is what's needed for a full color, hardback book...
I'm in. Probably would at most be able to put in 50 bucks, personally. Money is pretty tight at the moment.
But I definately see this project worthy of backing. I'd love to display this one proudly in hardback with the rest of all the other Pathfinder books I own.

EDIT: Considering how many fans of DSP there are (quite a few I reckon), I dunno what backer rewards you can do. Most of the folks that have helped with playtesting are getting honorable mentions in the book. What kind of things can DSP afford to hand out?

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't give away the P:Bestiary or the whole From the Deep AP except to very high donor levels. KS isn't a revenue stream, but a cost mitigation stream; lowering your future revenue by giving a 10 dollar PDF of an unreleased product to each contributor of 30 dollars or more just means you lost 10 dollars on P:Bestiary, not gained 20 dollars of net revenue. I'd hate to see you end up doing what the big dogs do with free products, and end up in a revenue slump because your core customers got all their releases for a significant discount very early in the products' life cycle.

PDF's of Unleashed would be a good lower tier reward, as would a reward level being part of an 'alpha' group of testers before your generally open beta playtests. A softback of Unleashed wouldn't be a bad mid-tier reward (not sure how much those costs, but again, don't want you guys to end up losing a ton of money). Having the meat and potatoes of Dreamscarred (core psionic rules, your forum's playtest culture) at an accessible level (read: cheap) would be, IMO, a good incentive to lure in those 'on the fence' folks to the wide world of psionic goodness.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
EDIT: Considering how many fans of DSP there are (quite a few I reckon), I dunno what backer rewards you can do. Most of the folks that have helped with playtesting are getting honorable mentions in the book. What kind of things can DSP afford to hand out?

Perhaps they would be able to give a 'coupon' reward for someone to gift a friend with a PDF of Unleashed or redeem it themselves if they didn't own it already. Another way to get more future customers?

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

archmagi1 wrote:
Don't give away the P:Bestiary or the whole From the Deep AP except to very high donor levels. KS isn't a revenue stream, but a cost mitigation stream; lowering your future revenue by giving a 10 dollar PDF of an unreleased product to each contributor of 30 dollars or more just means you lost 10 dollars on P:Bestiary, not gained 20 dollars of net revenue. I'd hate to see you end up doing what the big dogs do with free products, and end up in a revenue slump because your core customers got all their releases for a significant discount very early in the products' life cycle.

Emphasis mine.

Spot on.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

Kryzbyn - if funds weren't an issue, what sort of things would you like to be able to pledge for aside from, as mentioned, a PDF and / or a printed copy?

For example, and these figures are just examples, not intended to be actual, if $20 got you the compilation PDF and $50 got you the hardcover, what would you want to get if you pledged $100?

That sort of thing.

I think archmagi1 has a good idea about getting some sort of "early" playtest option.

And keep in mind, this isn't for "bonus" goals - this is for just things to pledge to meet the initial goal.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.

First let me say that I'm a huge fan of your company (as if you didn't already know). That said, a kick starter such as this isn't going to appeal to me very much because I don't care about dead tree rpg books that much and I already have both of your pdfs (well, got your pdf and the other pre-ordered), so I'm not the ideal person to be making suggestions. However, I will throw out ideas as I can.

The opportunity to name and design the iconic psionic characters would be nice. Each one would probably have to be a unique reward, and it seems like it would favor bidding rather than kickstarter type, but that would still help.


Or maybe an NPC named/styled after a backer inerted into your campaign setting?
A 'friend of DSP' icon on the DSP forums?

Neither of those would be 100$ worth. The PFO kickstarter had T-shirts, a hardcover book, forum icon, etc for 100 bucks. Course, Paizo can afford that stuff. I don't wanna see you and Angellus go broke because of pledge rewards. Then who will write all of our lovely psionic stuff for Pathfinder? :P


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
archmagi1 wrote:
Don't give away the P:Bestiary or the whole From the Deep AP except to very high donor levels. KS isn't a revenue stream, but a cost mitigation stream; lowering your future revenue by giving a 10 dollar PDF of an unreleased product to each contributor of 30 dollars or more just means you lost 10 dollars on P:Bestiary, not gained 20 dollars of net revenue. I'd hate to see you end up doing what the big dogs do with free products, and end up in a revenue slump because your core customers got all their releases for a significant discount very early in the products' life cycle.

Emphasis mine.

Spot on.

This is EXACTLY the right mind to approach Kickstarter with.

I think it might be better to take a more "super" niche focus product then just psionics. Our Dark Sun/Ravenloft mash up of Obsidian Apocalypse is a prime example of what I think a "super" niche is, but it could be even MORE focused then that. It takes time to find the right balance of super focused niche project, but I am sure it is there for you.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Huh. Okay, I'll play ball.

Art.

Seriously. If the project gets funded, make a hardcover. If the project gets funded for an extra $X, then replace Y interior pictures with full-colour artwork and print the book in colour. For every $Z above $X, an additional W pictures get replaced.

What I'm saying is that this is a good opportunity to upgrade the overall product. The more we spend, the more we get. Yes, the minimum pledge that gets a copy of the book will have to be carefully chosen because I recognize that a full-colour print job will be more expensive regardless of how much more interior art gets replaced. What I'm saying is that if a B&W-only book costs $30 to print, and a full-colour version costs $60 to print, you'll have to make $75 the minimum pledge that gets a copy of the book. And yes, your per-unit margin drops at that stage, but you're a} making it up in quantity, b} going to have control over the REAL numbers and c} inevitably going to have people that pledge more than $75 in hopes of seeing more upgrades.

Jeremy, I've touched on this in another thread, but this IMHO meshes really nicely. I have ZERO suggestions regarding content. I'm really happy with PU and PE. The words are awesome. But I'd really like to see this product end up looking not unlike a Paizo product. Kickstarter might make that possible.

As someone who preordered Tome of Horrors Complete, Slumbering Tsar, and is about to place his order for Rapan Athuk, I'm (evidently) willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'll pay for cool stuff.

That said, things like bonus GM screens or signed dice or special-edition psionic napkins don't really do it for me. Make the product itself better, not tack on fluffy tangentially-related things.

I'm in for $100 if the cover gets an upgrade.

Pathfinder Rules Conversion, Frog God Games

Dont add a bunch of bonus print material anywhere near the end of your KS as stretch goals. Your project manager will have a nervous breakdown.

;-)

SG
Frog God Games

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Skeeter Green wrote:
Dont add a bunch of bonus print material anywhere near the end of your KS as stretch goals. Your project manager will have a nervous breakdown.

You say that like its a bad thing.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

Anguish / ShadowcatX / Kryzbyn - that's just the sort of suggestions we're looking for.

Thanks!

Not that I don't appreciate folks pointing out the point of Kickstarter - trust me, there's a reason we haven't used it at all in the past. But this project is one that just screamed Kickstarter to us.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I really like Anguish's point, that at least for stretch goals, improve the funded project, instead of additional goodies.

Other ideas:

Small PDFs of maybe ecologies of the Psionic races beyond the few paragraphs presented in Unleashed. More writing work for you guys, but its an idea.

A tier can flesh out a city in the Third Dawn world as a group thought project. To appear as a standalone doc or maybe incorporated into a future Third Dawn CS project.

A psionic artifact / NPC / name drop in a historic reference tying a contributor into the Third Dawn CS.

Pathfinder Rules Conversion, Frog God Games

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Skeeter Green wrote:
Dont add a bunch of bonus print material anywhere near the end of your KS as stretch goals. Your project manager will have a nervous breakdown.
You say that like its a bad thing.

Dale McCoy Jr ~= Evil

:-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I may be an exception, but I like the collectible focus of the perks for some kickstarters I've seen ( the rappan athuk project being the most notable). If there was a signed, numbered full color version - id pay significantly more for those features.

I don't know the details of your playtest, but if you have some material which youve cut for space not quality, then including that as a second booklet for higher tier pledges would make me stump up extra.

FWIW, I generally pledge at the higher levels with kick starter projects and one thing that has no value to me is any kind of creative input.

Andoran

Oh, I like the idea of getting any material that was cut for page count. Even as a pdf at a lower level I'd look at that one hard.


Indeed. "This didn't make the cut, but check out the ideas..." I would be cool with also. Don't know how much of that there will be, though, as alot of the testing was done on their forums.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

Steve - to be honest, we never cut any material for page count reason. We cut material that didn't work, or that needed additional design work, or that had mechanical issues, but nothing to save space. We intentionally want this book big!

However, some sort of "bonus content" like that I think is a good idea - even just a "this stuff didn't get done in time" level. Obviously, it would need to be finished.

archmagi1 - I like all of those ideas. Honestly, I don't mind doing some additional writing if it's project-specific bonus content. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Incidentally, I was a bit rushed in my logic. You could potentially have people who pledge less-than-X only get a B&W hardcover where more-than-Y get a colour copy, if a bonus goal is met. Yes, that means potentially having two different books, and that has some printing costs associated with it, but it might be worth it.

Rapan Athuk is doing this, with the faux-leather cover versus the real leather covers. If you pledge enough, you get the good stuff.

So if someone only has $35 to dedicate to this project, they're getting B&W even if the whole project is funded enough to replace all the art with full-colour images. Someone who pledges $150 gets colour, even if it's only 10% colour images* inside because the project was poorly funded.

*That's where you make nice page backgrounds, like Paizo's products. Even if the individual portaits of things are still greyscale, the overall page could still be attractive.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Anguish wrote:

Incidentally, I was a bit rushed in my logic. You could potentially have people who pledge less-than-X only get a B&W hardcover where more-than-Y get a colour copy, if a bonus goal is met. Yes, that means potentially having two different books, and that has some printing costs associated with it, but it might be worth it.

Rapan Athuk is doing this, with the faux-leather cover versus the real leather covers. If you pledge enough, you get the good stuff.

So if someone only has $35 to dedicate to this project, they're getting B&W even if the whole project is funded enough to replace all the art with full-colour images. Someone who pledges $150 gets colour, even if it's only 10% colour images* inside because the project was poorly funded.

Another advantage with that approach is it provides incentive to up ones pledge as the stretch goals near. That was a very obvious feature of PFO's kickstarter - as the extra printed levels and flipmats neared, people increased their pledge to make sure they didn't miss out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Oh. One more comment. Please don't do this right away. This month, July, and August are brutal for RPG spending right now with everything from Rappan Athuk to the RotRL anniversary edition to the RotRL minis set. I think I've slotted four digits worth of spending in this four-month period and I'm down to recycled toilet paper. September or October would be much more survivable, though I think the RotRL minis got pushed one month or something. Shrug.

Just saying... time your project wisely.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

This won't be going for a few months, no problem there.

:)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

First off, let me say that as soon as this KS goes up, I'm throwing money at it.

Second, as for rewards, all the suggestions made so far are great, but I'll admit I enjoy the occasional "bonus tidbits". Something like, say, pawns representing the psionic races and classes that you could print out on cardstock.

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