Is it time for Super Genius Games to try a P20 Modern Kickstarter again?

[Alzrius]

Back in early 2010, Super Genius Games launched a Kickstarter project for making an RPG book that utilized the Pathfinder rules for a modern-day setting, which they called P20 Modern.

The project fizzled, unfortunately, earning only about $9,000 of its $70,000 goal. No doubt this was demoralizing to both the Geniuses and the people who wanted such a resource. What I'm curious about is - as the title says - should they try it again now?

Things have changed a lot since April of 2010. Pathfinder, at the time less than a year old, is now nearing its third anniversary, and is the best-selling RPG on the market. Similarly, the third-party community, with Super Genius Games being among its leaders, has likewise grown in terms of recognition among the fans.

Moreover, the nature of RPG Kickstarter projects has changed. For one thing, they're now much more common, with the highest-grossing among them reaching into the six-digit-figure range in terms of donations received. Moreover, there's a great three-part report on RPG crowdfunding that suggests (to my mind at least) that such a project would find much greater reception today than it did two years ago.

As someone who donated to the P20 Modern project previously, I'd love to see the Geniuses take another swing at it - I'm betting that this time, it'd clear its goal and then some.

What do you all think?

[Shifty]

I just don't find D20 systems transfer over to the modern era very well.

I'm not sure WHY it feels wrong, but I'm just not liking it as a 'modern' system. Thats not to say I don't like modern through to sci-fi games, its just that other systems seem to have done it a lot better.

[Louis Agresta]

Yes. But I want to see a commitment in there to Pathfinder Future, with a solid chunk dedicated to both Swords and Planet style play compatible with Distant Worlds and space opera in general.

[Kevin Webb GRC Team]

I think that is a good idea.

As a fan of Pathfinder and D20 Modern our game group was hoping to see this materialized back in 2010. When it fell through, we were disappointed.

So we thought “how hard could it be”? The MSRD and the PFSRD are out, just needs a few tweaks. A word doc and convert to a pdf, all done.

Well I was in for a big surprise. It is not that easy, lol. It is a lot of work and that is not even counting the cost for art and printing. I think we would all love to see this brought back to the level it was with support with adventures and other material.

To be honest, that is too big for our small company to do. There are just four of us, with only two of us really working on the material in our spare time.

I think Super Genius Games would be the best to handle all the work that is involved, and it is a lot.

[Jeremy Clarkson]

When you ask how hard can it be you get yourself into a load of hard work and misery. And it is a rubbish question.

[Kevin Webb GRC Team]

lol, yes very true.

[Sketchpad]

I think in the case of a P20/PFuture rule set that there needs to be a solid setting attached to it. While Paizo puts out some great generic books, it seems that they make many more Golarion books. What I'd like to see is a Space Opera book with that in mind, or maybe a decent successor to Dark*Matter. Each book could be its own game with compatible rules for Pathfinder.

[CourtFool]

I think magic is such an integral part of Pathfinder that any kind of modern conversion is not going to feel right unless magic remains. And with a modern system, I think a lot of people are going to want to play in a campaign without magic or with a great deal less magic.

Also, I think Classes are more jarring in a modern setting.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

Obviously, I find this thread immensely interesting. :)

P20 Modern was an interesting idea, but I'm not sure that I'd want to revisit exactly that again. Not because I found it demoralizing. I didn't. The Kickstarter was there to give fans who said there was enough interest a chance to be right, and we would have loved for them to be. And the fact we got $9k of backing stunned me a bit, to be honest. But the Kickstarter did what it was supposed to do -- tell us if the market was ready for the project our fans said they wanted.

If I'd poured my blood, sweat, and tears into writing a whole new system and then it tanked -- THAT would have demoralized me.

But I've done a LOT of Pathfinder design since then, for both SGG and Paizo, and I'm in a different headspace than I was for P20 Modern. Now I'm three classes into my Anachronistic Adventurers project (daredevil, enforcer, and investigator), and have three more in process (luminary,sensitive, and tough) all due to be released this summer. I have some related items in process, as well. And I have an idea for a setting I'd tie to Anachronistic Adventurers.

So if I were to tackle a modern-themed, Pathfinder-compatible book anytime soon, it would definitely be an expansion and revision of the Anachronistic Adventurers classes and their additional rules-modules, with baseline support for my setting idea. Because of the archetype system of the AA classes, that could easily spin into expansions for Futuristic Adventurers, Horror Adventurers, and so on.

Which isn't to say we'd ignore a strong call to renew the old Pd20 Modern project if a massive wave of support grew. But on my own, I am much more likely to finish what I have started with the Anachronistic Adventurers classes and the idea of 100% Pathfinder-compatible, modern-themed rules.

Which may well suit a number of original P20 Modern fans just fine, of course.

[Kevin Webb GRC Team]

I agree, it’s a lot of time and work for one person to shoulder such a large project. The modern setting seems to have a lot of support, but it also seems to be a limited fan base.

[Quori]

PASS.

Don't overextend into an area of mixed interest. Remain in the 100% pool of player base interest.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kevin Webb GRC Team]

Yea, unless there is a good support base, IDK if we can get past where we are.

Hopefully with what we all have posted, they will work together for a good set of rules, even if it’s various pdfs.

[Wicht]

I would like to see someone revisit it again. Though I think the $70,000 was to high an initial goal for an RPG project. I suspect that it is better to aim lower with funding than high (though you should still aim for enough to fully fund your work), because, as the initial goal is surpassed, excitement builds. If you start with too high a goal there is greater initial skepticism and momentum slows as people see the goal has not yet been met. At least thats my read of human nature and kickstart funding.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

Quori wrote:

PASS.

Don't overextend into an area of mixed interest. Remain in the 100% pool of player base interest.

Just my 2 cents.

I certainly appreciate the feedback. That said, we've had great success with our books supporting psionics and firearms which are definitely areas of mixed interest. And the existing Anachronistic Adventurer products do very well, suggesting there is an untapped audience that is big enough to support a product line.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

Wicht wrote:

If you start with too high a goal there is greater initial skepticism and momentum slows as people see the goal has not yet been met. At least thats my read of human nature and kickstart funding.

That certainly seems to match what we believe we have learned from the more-than-two-years of Kickstarters since we put up the P20 Modern project.

[R. Hyrum Savage]

Hmm..... Wonder what this is?

[Dark_Mistress]

Louis Agresta wrote:

Yes. But I want to see a commitment in there to Pathfinder Future, with a solid chunk dedicated to both Swords and Planet style play compatible with Distant Worlds and space opera in general.

This I am not really interested in a modern setting. I think other game systems do that better. But a future/scifi with a interesting setting and gear etc. Now that I would be interested in. Or in a possible modern horror/supernatural/magic setting would be interesting. Like the oft mentioned steampunk genre. But just a pure modern day like the real world? not so much.

[Shifty]

Sci-Fi/Future Pathfinder (or rather, John Carter style) could be fun in a beer and pretzels way, but modern 19-21st century stuff? not so much.

You could mash it up into a sci-fi 2050 dark future type game, but Elves, Dragons, Magic, and Heckler & Koch sounds too much like Shadowrun (which was a great game incidentally)