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Tips and Traits: A guide to Pathfinder Traits (Work in Progress)


Advice

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I have started a Guide to traits. Its a simple color coded guide to the traits that I feel give the most bang for your buck. I have finished the Introduction and Combat Traits. Feel free to give me your input on my rankings.

Tips and Traits.

Shadow Lodge

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Very nice. I was just reading a few posts talking about how hard it is to locate the Traits you would want with so many out there now and overlapping or restricted. This should help a great deal for that.


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It is interesting see you typing the guide in real time, very funny.


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Just a comment: Birthmark is quite valuable for fighters and other poor-Will classes. Two of the biggest will saves are charm and compulsion.

- Gauss


Nicos wrote:
It is interesting see you typing the guide in real time, very funny.

I second this notion! My girl and I can't help but laugh as we take bets on what the color of the next trait ends up being.


Gauss wrote:

Just a comment: Birthmark is quite valuable for fighters and other poor-Will classes. Two of the biggest will saves are charm and compulsion.

- Gauss

+1.


Gauss wrote:

Just a comment: Birthmark is quite valuable for fighters and other poor-Will classes. Two of the biggest will saves are charm and compulsion.

- Gauss

I was thinking of mainly divine casters using it. Yes a poor-will class could benefit. I will up the grade a tad. I still think it a waste of a good trait.


Good to see someone tackling this job :)


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Dragonamedrake, it is your guide but considering the primary bane of any Fighter is the fact that a Domination spell will get him to murder his allies I find a +2 bonus vs charm/compulsion to be a better choice than a +1 Will save vs everything. It is more narrow in scope than Iron Will but still freaking awesome.

- Gauss


Gauss wrote:

Dragonamedrake, it is your guide but considering the primary bane of any Fighter is the fact that a Domination spell will get him to murder his allies I find a +2 bonus vs charm/compulsion to be a better choice than a +1 Will save vs everything. It is more narrow in scope than Iron Will but still freaking awesome.

- Gauss

Its my guide but I by no means think I know everything. I welcome input. Its no hair off my back. I certainly don't want to give poor advice to people. Please don't hesitate to critique my work.

Now as to your point. I tend to value broad bonuses over situational ones. A flat +1 bonus to all will saves is better imo then a +2 to a narrow set of saves. However I do agree I had it ranked to low at the beginning and changed it.

However if the general consensus is that it should be higher then green then I will raise it. I will consider it and see what other have to say about it.

And again thanks for the input. I hope you continue.


Normally I would agree with you about broad vs narrow. However, the reason I place this narrow bonus so highly is because of all the will saves available the worst are in compulsion. Most other will saves result in annoyance/pain/misery but do not in a single stroke nullify the fighter and potentially kill his allies.

There is a trait that is better than Birthmark though and that is one that gives a +2 to all mind-affecting effects. That includes charm/compulsion, some illusions, and some necromancy.

- Gauss


Gauss wrote:

Normally I would agree with you about broad vs narrow. However, the reason I place this narrow bonus so highly is because of all the will saves available the worst are in compulsion. Most other will saves result in annoyance/pain/misery but do not in a single stroke nullify the fighter and potentially kill his allies.

There is a trait that is better than Birthmark though and that is one that gives a +2 to all mind-affecting effects. That includes charm/compulsion, some illusions, and some necromancy.

- Gauss

That trait will more then likely get a blue rating. Also I have finished Faith Traits. I will move on to Magic Traits next.


Biggest problem with the trait I mentioned (Latent Psion is the name btw) is the fluff is not always what people want. Thus, while it is a nice bonus Birthmark is more universally acceptable fluff-wise.

- Gauss


I'm glad such a thing finally exists. But I think you're too generous with the high rankings. All of the half feat stuff is being rated (+2 initiative, +1 ki point, +1 to one type of save, +3 rage rounds, etc...) blue and purple. Traits are supposed to be worth about half a feat, so most of these should be green, blue for the really nice "half-feat effects" like initiative. In general, if it's worth half a feat, that simply means its performing up to par. At least IMO.

And the class skill gains... Getting Heal as a class skill is not purple. Some are very nice to have, sure. Not all.

I wish I had noticed Slippery. Didn't have to fluff my character as being a bandit in the past. Dang. Also never noticed Unnatural Presence. ...You can't normally demoralize animals? Is that true?


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Also never noticed Unnatural Presence. ...You can't normally demoralize animals? Is that true?

Certainly it is not cleat by the wording

"You can use this skill to frighten your opponents or to get them to act in a way that benefits you. This skill includes verbal threats and displays of prowess."

that the only part that may disallow to demoralize aniamls because of the verbal component. But in the demoralize action never state that you need to ve capable of comunicate with the target.


I do not believe animals are immune to demoralize. There is one possible qualifier though: language. If demoralize requires a language (which I do not believe it does) then animals would be immune due to a lack of a common language.

- Gauss


I did a rating on EVERY PF trait from the prospective of a Summoner a while back. I wish you luck, because I learned there are a TON (over half the list!) of junk traits out there.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12831726&postcount=501
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12948382&postcount=534
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12978308&postcount=542

Note that almost all the ones I listed red are because they are useless for a Summmoner, not because they are bad. There are a few that are so bad I rated them red despite doing something.

Be sure to keep a color lower than red handy for at least two traits

1: Lover of the Law (which gives a +2 vs mind effecting, but only if the controller orders a specific action (half of the "mind effecting" spells don't give the ability to command) that is against the law (and the trait is unclear WHO it is against the law for. If it is the controller, mind control is probably illegal in a fantasy world it is proven to exist in so it always activates, if it is for the controller, it never activates because even in the real world, let alone a fantasy world where it is proven to exist, you aren't commiting a crime if mind controlled.)
2:I forget the name, but one trait that forces you to save against all divine spells (even the ones your allies cast)

Anyways. When you get to it, note that Blade of the Society can be read as giving a boost to every die of Sneak Attack you have (Which is even justified by PF's logic of traits being "half feats" having half of the 3.5's "Craven" feat), even though that wasn't the intent.

Also note that Purity of Faith is better than all the other +1 will saves bonuses due to extra bonus against evil outsiders. Others are still good, but it is superior unless you want your Religion slot.


Nicos wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Also never noticed Unnatural Presence. ...You can't normally demoralize animals? Is that true?

Certainly it is not cleat by the wording

"You can use this skill to frighten your opponents or to get them to act in a way that benefits you. This skill includes verbal threats and displays of prowess."

that the only part that may disallow to demoralize aniamls because of the verbal component. But in the demoralize action never state that you need to ve capable of comunicate with the target.

Considering animals in real life can be intimidated, I don't see why they'd be immune to it in the game. Trait's still useful for vermin (but probably not blue due to how narrow a group that is), but it's odd they said animals, too, when you already can demoralize them.


I noticed that in my rating for Summoners too. Would not be the first time someone didn't know the rules for the game they were writing a supplement for (both WotC and Paizo are VERY guilty of this)

Anyways, the guide underrates St. Clydwell’s Ward a bit. Depending on the potion you are referring to...

1: Sanctuary can't be a potion and even if it could, is single target and doesn't have a scaling save
2: Protection from Evil only works on summoned demons. Demons that are there because YOU went to the abyss, Demons that were brought in by [calling] effects are immune, Demons that planeshift through natural ability or enter through planar gate (which a quick look at PF wiki says that last one was the kind of demon St. Clydwell dealt with) are immune.

Not fantastic if you aren't in a campaign centered around the worldwound, but better than you give it credit for.


deuxhero wrote:

I noticed that in my rating for Summoners too. Would not be the first time someone didn't know the rules for the game they were writing a supplement for (both WotC and Paizo are VERY guilty of this)

Anyways, the guide underrates St. Clydwell’s Ward a bit. Depending on the potion you are referring to...

1: Sanctuary can't be a potion and even if it could, is single target and doesn't have a scaling save
2: Protection from eEvil only works on summoned demons, demons that planeshift through natural ability or enter through planar gate (which a quick look at PF wiki says that was the kind of demon St. Clydwell dealt with) are immune.

Not fantastic if you aren't in a campaign centered around the worldwound, but better than you give it credit for.

If you cant make a potion of Sanctuary then why is it listed as a potion on the SRD for 50 gp.


Not sure why I was thinking Sactuary targeted the creature to be blocked. Disregard. Need sleep. Still a substantially lower save (remember outsiders have good will saves) that the potion won't block demons.

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I'm glad such a thing finally exists. But I think you're too generous with the high rankings. All of the half feat stuff is being rated (+2 initiative, +1 ki point, +1 to one type of save, +3 rage rounds, etc...) blue and purple. Traits are supposed to be worth about half a feat, so most of these should be green, blue for the really nice "half-feat effects" like initiative. In general, if it's worth half a feat, that simply means its performing up to par. At least IMO.

Trust me, you haven't seen how the VAST majority of the feats are stinkers (and often redundant stinkers at that). The ones you listed make up the majority of traits that aren't god awful and pretty much all of the ones that fall into a mold. If he isn't generous, EVERYTHING will be rated low.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
I'm glad such a thing finally exists. But I think you're too generous with the high rankings. All of the half feat stuff is being rated (+2 initiative, +1 ki point, +1 to one type of save, +3 rage rounds, etc...) blue and purple. Traits are supposed to be worth about half a feat, so most of these should be green, blue for the really nice "half-feat effects" like initiative.

Traits are not feats. Therefor you shouldn't compare the worth of a trait to the worth of a feat. Otherwise you might as well not have traits at all and just give every character a bonus feat instead.

The ranks are just a signifier of "What are the better traits" If you have no purples then the blues just become de facto purples.

Reactionary is an excellent choice, just because it isn't as good as improved initiative doesn't make it any less an excellent choice.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I'm glad such a thing finally exists. But I think you're too generous with the high rankings. All of the half feat stuff is being rated (+2 initiative, +1 ki point, +1 to one type of save, +3 rage rounds, etc...) blue and purple. Traits are supposed to be worth about half a feat, so most of these should be green, blue for the really nice "half-feat effects" like initiative. In general, if it's worth half a feat, that simply means its performing up to par. At least IMO.

And the class skill gains... Getting Heal as a class skill is not purple. Some are very nice to have, sure. Not all.

I considered dropping the Heal skill trait to a blue. I might consider dropping most of them to blue. Knowledge Arcana, stealth, perception, UDM... these will stay purple because of the power of the skill. But I will consider dropping the rest.

Honestly this is a rough draft. I will go back re evaluate all the rankings and consider all the comments.

+2 initiative is a great trait imo. Worth the purple. The rest you mention are pretty nice boons for the classes they are intended for. However I will take a second (and probably 3rd, 4th, ect) look at all of them. I will pick this back up tomorrow.


Dragonamedrake wrote:


I considered dropping the Heal skill trait to a blue. I might consider dropping most of them to blue. Knowledge Arcana, stealth, perception, UDM... these will stay purple because of the power of the skill. But I will consider dropping the rest.

They aren't really that great. You ranked Spellcraft as a class skill any class would want. When it's pretty much already a class skill for every class that is going to bother using it (namely, casting classes). Fighter is not going to use Spellcraft, so it would be a waste of a trait for him.

The only class skill that's really a universal "everyone needs it" skill is Perception. There's an argument for Stealth but any class that can't stealth well won't bother to try at all.


Great guide, Drake. Just a small thing.

I actually like Courageous on fighters and swashbuckler rogues. That, plus bravery or daring and a sash of the war champion for fighters mean you'll likely never fail a fear save again (and let's face it, while they're a little less common they're probably the scariest will save out there.) It's no substitute for a decent will save, but it's a nice crutch. I'd consider bumping up to orange, but no higher.

It's definately come up more than "killer", though. I hate that trait with a passion.


CommandoDude wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:
I'm glad such a thing finally exists. But I think you're too generous with the high rankings. All of the half feat stuff is being rated (+2 initiative, +1 ki point, +1 to one type of save, +3 rage rounds, etc...) blue and purple. Traits are supposed to be worth about half a feat, so most of these should be green, blue for the really nice "half-feat effects" like initiative.

Traits are not feats. Therefor you shouldn't compare the worth of a trait to the worth of a feat. Otherwise you might as well not have traits at all and just give every character a bonus feat instead.

The ranks are just a signifier of "What are the better traits" If you have no purples then the blues just become de facto purples.

Reactionary is an excellent choice, just because it isn't as good as improved initiative doesn't make it any less an excellent choice.

Yes. A trait is not as good as a feat (except the rare few that are so insanely good they're better than feats). A trait is supposed to be roughly in value to half of a feat. Supposedly. Hence why I said any trait that IS basically half of a feat should be green, or blue if it's half of a really good feat. Green is supposed to be average, and having the power of half a feat is "meeting expectations."

But I rate harshly, I guess. I tend to figure it's best not to clutter a guide with too many "above average" and "amazing" ratings, otherwise it just kinda cheapens the ranking and makes it less user friendly for a quick look. If you only have 20 traits rated blue or purple, it's a alot easier for someone to quickly scan through for the "good ones" than if you have 40 rated so. Having "too much red" isn't an issue; anyone looking for GOOD traits will just glance right past any reds anyway. The point should be to highlight the standouts, not waste time and page space railing on the crap options too much.
Just my view...


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Nicos wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Also never noticed Unnatural Presence. ...You can't normally demoralize animals? Is that true?

Certainly it is not cleat by the wording

"You can use this skill to frighten your opponents or to get them to act in a way that benefits you. This skill includes verbal threats and displays of prowess."

that the only part that may disallow to demoralize aniamls because of the verbal component. But in the demoralize action never state that you need to ve capable of comunicate with the target.

Considering animals in real life can be intimidated, I don't see why they'd be immune to it in the game. Trait's still useful for vermin (but probably not blue due to how narrow a group that is), but it's odd they said animals, too, when you already can demoralize them.

I agree, the mechanics of the skill never mention you need a way of comunication to demoralize an opponent.

"You can only threaten an opponent this way if it is within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you"

The target only need to hear you not understand you. IT is a weird trait indeed.


Ok Im up. Got a Rip It and a pack of smokes. Back at it. I will go back and read your responses and reply to each after I get some traits done.


There are some great traits in Player Companions.

One that is very good is Glory of Old, from Dwarves of Golarion.

It grants a +1 on all saves against spells, spell-like abilities and poison.

Funny thing is, it's actually a Regional trait, not a Racial trait. I suppoe there must be some half-dwarves running around.

Shadow Lodge

UMD can be a great skill for some Cha based classes that do not get it normally, like the Oracle, some Paladins, and a few others. The issue is it's either uncommonly used (in combat) or it is a risk of wasting an action doing nothing is you fail vs doing something someone else in the party should have done anyways. Whats worse, if you fail to much with some items you might actually do something that hinders the party even more than just wasting your turn.

A Paladin can still Full Attack and an Oracle should have multiple other thing they can do that are not so much a risk of having no effect a great deal of the time. That being said, it can be useful if there is not healer, or no Clc/Wiz/Sor in the party regularly, or in PFS play where there is no regular group.

I would suggest that Acrobatics, Bluff, (less so than the others), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth (again less so than the others) are the skills just about anyone might want as Class Skills.

The various Know skills, Ride, Spellcraft, and a few others are next to last, both in being somewhat usefull or less commonly used, but also in either granting the additional +1 or +2 that a Trait grants in needing to beat a DC or seperately in granting it as a Class Skill to classes that do not have it already but want it for a concept/build.

While some skills like Appraise, Craft (maybe?), Disguise, Escape Artist, Linguistics, Perform, and Profession are at the bottom of the list. These last two lists are debatible, (well they all are really), and can shift (obviously) if your character really wants/needs something and very much so by styles of play.

If you are playing a lot of intrigue, Acrobatics and Stealth are going to drop, Know Skils, Disguise are going up to top, for example.


Beckett wrote:

UMD can be a great skill for some Cha based classes that do not get it normally, like the Oracle, some Paladins, and a few others. The issue is it's either uncommonly used (in combat) or it is a risk of wasting an action doing nothing is you fail vs doing something someone else in the party should have done anyways. Whats worse, if you fail to much with some items you might actually do something that hinders the party even more than just wasting your turn.

A Paladin can still Full Attack and an Oracle should have multiple other thing they can do that are not so much a risk of having no effect a great deal of the time. That being said, it can be useful if there is not healer, or no Clc/Wiz/Sor in the party regularly, or in PFS play where there is no regular group.

I would suggest that Acrobatics, Bluff, (less so than the others), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth (again less so than the others) are the skills just about anyone might want as Class Skills.

The various Know skills, Ride, Spellcraft, and a few others are next to last, both in being somewhat usefull or less commonly used, but also in either granting the additional +1 or +2 that a Trait grants in needing to beat a DC or seperately in granting it as a Class Skill to classes that do not have it already but want it for a concept/build.

While some skills like Appraise, Craft (maybe?), Disguise, Escape Artist, Linguistics, Perform, and Profession are at the bottom of the list. These last two lists are debatible, (well they all are really), and can shift (obviously) if your character really wants/needs something and very much so by styles of play.

If you are playing a lot of intrigue, Acrobatics and Stealth are going to drop, Know Skils, Disguise are going up to top, for example.

Yes I will probably drop most the skill traits down. Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth, ect will stay purple. I have to disagree on Spellcraft. A fighter who can make a spellcraft check to know the wizard just cast invisibility or D Door instead of teleport, is a great skill.

I have decided to add a separate section with a list of traits and what skills they add in class for easy reference for players looking to add a certain skill.

Liberty's Edge

I would drop all the skill gain traits to green or blue at best (UMD and perception are the only ones I'd have as purple). Reason being, most skill traits require very specific builds to work where as the + to saving throw traits are just good for everyone all the time.

I agree with the above comments on birthmark. Latent psion is very nice indeed if you're a human.

Beast of the society is only a trait because once you've got to 6th or 7th level duration's not really a problem any more, and you're probably not going to be wildshaping into small or medium forms nearly as much.

Shadow Lodge

BirthMark can actually be really, really good for Characters that fight 2 handed or TWFing, and it is a great Trait for Divine Casters when the time does come (holy symbol sundered, bound, grappled, or all gear is taken for whatever reason). That being said, Holy Sybols are cheap as heck, and I typicaly buy 10 right off the bat with 2 spell pouches, just in case. It is one of the few that does offer great flavor (you are the chosen one . . .) for most divine/religious types and also in a minor way offers something that you can not normally do otherwise.

The closest thing I can think of off hand is the Craft Reliquery which allows you to turn Arms and Armor into a Holy Symbol, too, or some house rules for tattooing.

The other thing is that it is debatible if the Birthmark can be used for some spells the require a costly Divine Focus. A lot of Divinations do, so this could possibly both save a little money that way and also be double useful in that department of you always have it no matter what.

Dark Archive

Seems there is a ghost on the page, I watched it type out ghost sight ironically enough.

Shadow Lodge

thank you! trait selection is taking me a long as building the rest of the character these days


Dark_Mistress wrote:
Seems there is a ghost on the page, I watched it type out ghost sight ironically enough.

lol ... I had surgery and will be cooped up for 25 days. I thought this a good opportunity to give back to the community. It is creepy thinking that people could be watching me type.

I will take another look at Birthmark. It seems there are several people who value it.

Liberty's Edge

Its not that it itself is super highly valued, it is that passing saving throws is super highly valued, and this helps that (occassionally). Compare that (on any build) to granting stealth as a class skill. Birthmark wins.

Is it better than a straight +1? I don't know. I personally like the flavor of it and have used it, but my default traits I go to are +1 to will and +1 to fortitude.


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Don't let these people rope you into any arguments. Everyone's a critic. I had people ask me what I was smoking and even calling me lazy for not catering to their special needs munchkins in a 50-pager.

It's YOUR work, and your guide. If they don't like it, they can take the time to do their own or shut up. You'll get no end of whiners, and you can't appease all of them.

Good job! Looking forward to the finished product.


ShadowcatX wrote:

I would drop all the skill gain traits to green or blue at best (UMD and perception are the only ones I'd have as purple). Reason being, most skill traits require very specific builds to work where as the + to saving throw traits are just good for everyone all the time.

Beast of the society is only a trait because once you've got to 6th or 7th level duration's not really a problem any more, and you're probably not going to be wildshaping into small or medium forms nearly as much.

Diplomacy might be purple, too. Otherwise agreed on the only skill traits worth purple.

I really don't like Beast of the Society. Assume you start at level 1. It does nothing at all for 3 levels. Then it works for 2 levels, and then to use it beyond that point, you'd need to take a weaker form. Even if you need the duration, by level 8 you have 8 hours per use x 3 uses = 24 hours. So...I don't think it's worth taking.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:

I would drop all the skill gain traits to green or blue at best (UMD and perception are the only ones I'd have as purple). Reason being, most skill traits require very specific builds to work where as the + to saving throw traits are just good for everyone all the time.

Beast of the society is only a trait because once you've got to 6th or 7th level duration's not really a problem any more, and you're probably not going to be wildshaping into small or medium forms nearly as much.

Diplomacy might be purple, too. Otherwise agreed on the only skill traits worth purple.

I really don't like Beast of the Society. Assume you start at level 1. It does nothing at all for 3 levels. Then it works for 2 levels, and then to use it beyond that point, you'd need to take a weaker form. Even if you need the duration, by level 8 you have 8 hours per use x 3 uses = 24 hours. So...I don't think it's worth taking.

The fact it DOUBLES the duration on all small and medium animals you shift into is amazing. For combat it might be a waste but there are a ton of small animals you can turn into that can fly or burrow or sneak well that can be used to scout ahead or simply stay on watch as. These activities tend to last much longer then combat, so the double duration is very helpful. Especially at lower levels. You have to remember.

This is a trait (not a feat) that doubles the duration of a core class ability. How many other traits can say the same. I stand by my ranking.


Done with Magic Traits. Moving on to Social Traits.


@Beckett (because quoting refuses to load), it isn't an issue for 2 handers, it is a free action to shift back and forth between wielding a weapon in 2 hands and holding (but not wielding) a weapon in one hand. It is still of note for TWF (however rare divine casters with TWFing are) and Heavy Shield+Weapon. Potentially the odd Magus/Cleric/Mystic Thurge as well.

For the guide itself, note that Magical Knack works on (anti)Paladin and Rangers, for who is is pretty much a must have (Paladin might take Dangerously Curious if they don't worship the god that lets them pick the only other trait that gives UMD)


I strongly reccomend Magical Knack for the poor spellcasters like Paladin and Ranger. It helps mitigate the caster level of the spells AND it allows them to qualify for certain feats 2 levels earlier.

- Gauss


I think Two-World Magic is better than green. A lot of classes are lacking for good cantrips/orisons. Ghost sound as mentioned is one such option (and allows a druid to talk in wild shape without wasting a feat on Wild Speech or waiting for elemental forms). How about Prestidigitation, the best spell ever? Or Message, poor man's telepathy? Or if you're a divine caster w/o Spark, gain that to take Glorious Heat feat for infinite out of combat healing.
Lots of nice 0-level spells that might sych perfectly with a certain class but not be normally available.

Adopted: Two things you might want to note. First, it was clarified that getting Adopted + [insert racial trait] = ONE trait expended. I've seen lots of people think it costs you 2. Secondly, by how it's written RAW, you can only get traits listed under "Race Traits," not traits in other categories that are restricted to a certain race. I found this out when doing my Witch Handbook. There's a dwarf-only trait called Honeyed Words that buffs the DC of Slumber hex by 1, among other effects. But it's a religion trait, so you can't use adopted to grab it.
Adopted text: "Benefit: You picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents’ race."

I'd reduce Bully to green. Intimidate is only an ok skill, and the Princess trait does everything it does, except also buffs Diplomacy by 1 and lets you pick either as your class skill. Growing up a nerd, I'm also biased against playing a bully. ;)

Child of the Streets: Green. Sleight of Hand really isn't a good skill. And its best uses tend to land your PC in prison and/or gets the other players REALLY angry at you...


StreamOfTheSky, you mean to tell me you didn't grow up a nerd AND a bully? I'M SHOCKED! :D

- Gauss


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I think Two-World Magic is better than green. A lot of classes are lacking for good cantrips/orisons. Ghost sound as mentioned is one such option (and allows a druid to talk in wild shape without wasting a feat on Wild Speech or waiting for elemental forms). How about Prestidigitation, the best spell ever? Or Message, poor man's telepathy? Or if you're a divine caster w/o Spark, gain that to take Glorious Heat feat for infinite out of combat healing.

Lots of nice 0-level spells that might sych perfectly with a certain class but not be normally available.

I read Ghost sound and wondered if a druid with natural spell could use it to communicate with it. By the wording you could make a case for either. The rest of your examples are sound. I will up the color. I might steal some of your comment on the description.

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Adopted: Two things you might want to note. First, it was clarified that getting Adopted + [insert racial trait] = ONE trait expended. I've seen lots of people think it costs you 2. Secondly, by how it's written RAW, you can only get traits listed under "Race Traits," not traits in other categories that are restricted to a certain race. I found this out when doing my Witch Handbook. There's a dwarf-only trait called Honeyed Words that buffs the DC of Slumber hex by 1, among other effects. But it's a religion trait, so you can't use adopted to grab it.

Adopted text: "Benefit: You picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents’ race."

I didn't realize that. Even being limited to Racial Traits is a great trait. I will clarify the description though.

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
I'd reduce Bully to green. Intimidate is only an ok skill, and the Princess trait does everything it does, except also buffs Diplomacy by 1 and lets you pick either as your class skill. Growing up a nerd, I'm also biased against playing a bully. ;)

Intimidate is a great skill. Also there are several combat builds that depend on Intimidate to work. I believe a blue is fair. Princess requires you to be female. Otherwise it would be superior.

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Child of the Streets: Green. Sleight of Hand really isn't a good skill. And its best uses tend to land your PC in prison and/or gets the other players REALLY angry at you...

I still havent quite figured out how I will score all the skill traits. I think giving a skill as a class skill should diserve a blue unless its a really really crappy skill. Heal, swim, climb, ect. Slight of Hand might be added to that list because of the limited scope of the skill. I will think on it.


Gauss wrote:

I strongly reccomend Magical Knack for the poor spellcasters like Paladin and Ranger. It helps mitigate the caster level of the spells AND it allows them to qualify for certain feats 2 levels earlier.

- Gauss

Its already purple but I will add that to the description. A very good point.


A highly regarded expert wrote:

Don't let these people rope you into any arguments. Everyone's a critic. I had people ask me what I was smoking and even calling me lazy for not catering to their special needs munchkins in a 50-pager.

It's YOUR work, and your guide. If they don't like it, they can take the time to do their own or shut up. You'll get no end of whiners, and you can't appease all of them.

Good job! Looking forward to the finished product.

Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement. But I want the critiques as long as they are civil. It helps me to get the colors right. Especially if I have miss tricks or underestimated/overestimated a trait.


One note on Havoc of the Society: Because it is force damage, next to nothing is immune (and I think it may actually be nothing in pure PF). This means that effects that activate if something is damaged (Dazzling Spell for instance), will always activate.

This narrow use means it is worth taking if you plan on using such spells (if not for the Sorcerer restriction, Summoner would love it for Lesser Dazzling Rod+Wall of Fire). Still useless if you don't, but nowhere near as bad you make it out to be.

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