Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Just to point out, you can't outright kill off wordplay in names. That's something that a lot of people do and have done in real life. I imagine that it's relatively common in cultures that use somewhat common words in their language for names.
For example, there are English last names like Flowers, Morrow, and Head. How much do you want to bet there are people with first names like May, Tom, or Richard for said last names respectively?
The only rules I would want for naming conventions are a character limit and special character limitations. I wouldn't even want separate first/last name boxes. I once knew a girl who had 5 individual names using a total of 44 characters (including spaces) as part of her entire names due to cultural, familial, and religious practices.
Your suggested restrictions have the unwarranted possible side effect of possibly harming my desire to role play certain characters. Look at old school Arabic names. There are middle eastern type cultures that a character could be from on Avistan, and their player might wish to use the old Arabic style for naming their character. I know I've done it twice in TT games.
Freedom is king, and sandbox is about freedom.
Goblin Squad Member
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I meet you in the woods, far away from civilized areas, and I cut you down in cold-blood, that's cool. And if I see you again I can do it. And again. Forever, and that's awesomeWelp I know who I'll be avoiding playing on the same server as.
No you don't :)
I'm talking about game design, not my character. I'll be playing the LG Cleric or Paladin that matches my idealized identity as a US Marine. But my goody-two shoes needs dramatic tension to push against: human conflict. So a game design like Ryan talks about here is attractive to me--outside civilized areas there will be conflict, including those who prey on the weak.
Those kind of people are my prey :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Mbando, you may be right, but that's not the way I read it...
From To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms:
One thing that we're deeply committed to at Goblinworks is building a game that has a low tolerance for "griefing." Loosely defined, griefing means taking actions within the game that are designed to harass another player to elicit bad feelings without any other reasonable purpose. Griefing encompasses a wide spectrum of behavior, and there will be players who feel that they have been subjected to griefing while their opponents feel they're engaged in legitimate gameplay. An example is a group who attacks and kills trespassers in a certain area to deny access to that territory to other players. The people trying to get in might feel it's unfair that they keep getting attacked and killed, whereas the attackers feel completely justified in defending their territory. Goblinworks will be creating an organic, evolving policy on griefing to identify practices that we consider abusive. We will take severe action out-of-game against regularly abusive players, while less flagrant issues will be dealt with in-game by way of an innovative bounty system designed to deter unwanted aggression.I read that to say that if someone kills me over and over because they don't like the name "Nihimon", even if I'm capstoned and out in the wilderness, then GW will put a stop to it.
Obviously, if I'm trying to enter someone's territory and they kill me every time, that's something entirely different. But if my everyday experience involves getting killed, no matter where I am, by the same individual or group, then I expect GW to consider that griefing and respond accordingly. (barring issues where it's obviously my fault, not valid in Oklahoma, etc., etc., etc.)
Nihimon, I just saw this older thread from Ryan that maybe better articulates what I'm getting at.
The game is designed so that you have safety at the center, and freedom/danger at the periphery:
-New players, and those who don't want to take risks, can play within the civilized world in safety.
-Those who embrace risk, can move to the periphery, where there is considerable freedom.
So if I find a way to get around the game design and kill you 85x because I don't like your face, within the marshal lands, I'm griefing. But if we're out in the boonies, and my character just wants to stab you in the face 85x, you didn't get griefed.
You're playing in a sandbox.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to refer to the same quote as many have already:
Loosely defined, griefing means taking actions within the game that are designed to harass another player to elicit bad feelings without any other reasonable purpose.
If my reason is to loot you, then that is by definition reasonable. If I decide you are a lucrative target, then killing you repeatedly has a reason behind it, which makes it reasonable. If someone's paying me to kill you over and over, then I have a reason to do it, and it is thus by definition reasonable.
Welcome to the sandbox.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) Capital first letter followed by lowercase letters for both first and last name
While I agree I don't want to see AnDiUs MeUrIdIaR, I wouldn't mind seeing Jolan Ta'Daer or Gronmy McGreol depending on what kind of names are acceptable via lore. If there are certain prefixes or characters that commonly proceed capitals in name they should allow them to be used once per name to allow an extra capital letter.
3) No immersion breaking names
Highly agreed, but only depending on how far they take it. I really hope mods will force a name-change on someone named Rainbow McSlurpypants but I really hope it doesn't get to a level that if there is an elf named Glarak Raeldain they are going to analyze whether or not that name sounds elven or if someone is name Rand Honeythistle that they will ban the name because Rand Al'Thor is the main character of Wheel of Time or because honey and thistle are real words.
"PLAYERS ONLINE: Yo_Momma, ManBeast, Da$#!+, Ben Dover, U-my-%&*%# , etc
And I would also not want to have to hire the OneDayKillaz for an assassination contract.
Agreed. I think allowing only roleplay names will really cater to the kind of people interested in a pathfinder MMO, and drive away a lot of the trash sorts of player who think Open World PVP games are a giant Halo match and the determination of success is how many kills you get.
I just don't want RP name rules so overbearing that they are blocking a lot of names actually meant to be RP. That would really kill the fun for me as well.
Oh one other thing common last names associated with major characters in Golarion should be available in the cash shop for various prices depending on how rare they want them to be.
I remember in Lord of The Rings Online I decided to choose a common hobbit last name not associated with a major character. So I went with Hornblower. And it ended up blocked because some NPCs have that name. Of course they do! It's a common hobbit last name!!!
I understand that if Baggins, Gamgee and Took were allowed to everyone they would all buy them, but the occasional Baggins and Took would be no more immersion breaking than when you meet someone with the last name Wallace (William Wallace) or Adams (John & Sam Adams) in real life. (That is speaking in context in LotRO, in the context of Pathfinder I mean last names associated with major characters in adventure paths and players guides and such.)
Why not let a few people have them and generate a little money in the process?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, I just saw this older thread from Ryan that maybe better articulates what I'm getting at.
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So if I find a way to get around the game design and kill you 85x because I don't like your face, within the marshal lands, I'm griefing. But if we're out in the boonies, and my character just wants to stab you in the face 85x, you didn't get griefed.
I'm pretty sure I understood you right the first time. But quotes like these, from the link you provided, lead me to believe you're wrong:
It is not our intention to create an "anything goes" world where players are subjected to endless scams, ganks, and immersion breaking behavior.
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But the meta-rule will be: "If you're acting like a jerk, we'll feel free to give you a time-out lasting from minutes to forever without appeal and without warning."
Ryan immediately follows that last quote with a special note about new players, which leads me to believe that what I've quoted is actually applicable in the entire game, not just in the low-risk newbie areas.
Players should also be free from metagame harassment of gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, political or religious affiliation, favorite college football team, or participation in other MMOs. Taking someone's off-line world into our on-line world will be totally unacceptable and we'll have a very low tolerance for those who break those rules.
That right there makes it plainly obvious that there absolutely are limits on killing other players even in free-for-all territory. We can quibble about what exactly those limits will be, but I think you're wrong to say that "anything goes" once your'e out of the secure areas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to refer to the same quote as many have already:Loosely defined, griefing means taking actions within the game that are designed to harass another player to elicit bad feelings without any other reasonable purpose.If my reason is to loot you, then that is by definition reasonable. If I decide you are a lucrative target, then killing you repeatedly has a reason behind it, which makes it reasonable. If someone's paying me to kill you over and over, then I have a reason to do it, and it is thus by definition reasonable.
Welcome to the sandbox.
Just because you have a "reason" doesn't mean it's "reasonable". Welcome to hermeneutics.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see where coach is coming from, and would agree when we see something like “manboobs” or “killinnewbs” on the screen, it shouldn’t be allowed.
However, using name from popular fantasy settings could be questionable. The popular character names should be a given to stay away from, but what if I wanted to name myself Thom Merrilin? Or Faramir? What about Eventine Elessidil? All are characters from popular fantasy series’, but none are ones that immediately stand out from any of the series’. I wouldn’t see any reason why someone couldn’t use any of these. Where is the line drawn at?
I do have one other question, and I agree, shouldn’t be able to be used in PFO, but what does everyone have against Drizz’t? :)
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what does everyone have against Drizz’t?
In fact, nothing. But if you can get me something that works, I'll buy it!
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Goblin Squad Member
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From what I've seen in the past, there's usually a line in the EULA or Naming Guidelines about not using names that are under copyright.
Ultimately, it's all going to boil down to the judgment of the particular moderator who's been tasked with resolving the report about the name in question. This leads me to believe that it's going to be important for the community to generally refrain from reporting on borderline names. Frankly, I'd rather see a thousand variants of Legolas than a single MaNBewBs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From what I've seen in the past, there's usually a line in the EULA or Naming Guidelines about not using names that are under copyright.
Ultimately, it's all going to boil down to the judgment of the particular moderator who's been tasked with resolving the report about the name in question. This leads me to believe that it's going to be important for the community to generally refrain from reporting on borderline names. Frankly, I'd rather see a thousand variants of Legolas than a single MaNBewBs.
It be nice if I didn't run into 4 diffrent spellings of Sephiroth daily in a MMO for once.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@JakBlitz that's one of the reasons I'd like to see PFO ditch the usual requirement for unique names.
That, and the possibility of having names hijacked by unscrupulous people who might see you on the forums and decide they don't like you and then get lucky enough to make a character with your name before you can.
Yes, there are problems with non-unique names, but those problems are actually easier to deal with in a computer system than they are in the real world.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That, and the possibility of having names hijacked by unscrupulous people who might see you on the forums and decide they don't like you and then get lucky enough to make a character with your name before you can.
Considering how they are letting in waves of people that is highly possible if you have made some enemies. In the same way this could be also the same for Company Charters. Some Griefers could try to take any of the current forming charters names if not enough members are in the first wave.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is less about the rp aspect, tho that is major part of it for many.
To me it is escapism and immersion. I play to put myself into another universe, or setting outside of the real world. When I meet people with pop culture names, recycled names from other universes, and or dude speak names, it rips me right out of that place. Congratulations, with one simple "easily ignored" name, they have undermined the entire point of gaming for many of us.
Filters, and ignore features go a long way, but do not solve the problem. The solution is only through proper enforcement, and live support. If a name is reported, it should be reviewed and the offender questioned. If no suitable response, reason, or meaning is given to the name, GM's should change it on the spot. Hopefully in a knowledgeable and respectable manner. Censorship is not the affect I am going for, somewhere in the middle lies the answer.
I almost completely agree with what you said, except for one aspect, RP. The very fact that it is a roleplaying game is the foundation for the immersion you mention. To play a game that is of the type, roleplaying, is to play a character in that world. To play a character in that world, is to respect/pay attention to the world itself. The world we are roleplaying in is Golarion, and thus one if one wants to play a character, one should respect the world of Golarion. A character's name is one small facet of playing this game. Luckily it is quite simple to create a character that respects Golarion - tons of free material out there, in addition everything that GW will provide.
It is as simple as that.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'm one of those "immersion and RP and setting and fluff" folks, and I still have trouble accepting that GW should force players to name their characters according to a set of rules. I'm going to propose three things that mitigate the problem and also could serve to nix Manboobs without bringing down mighty Goblin wrath on him.
Now, before we begin I want to say that when I GM, I reject names which are clearly based on well-known, copyrighted characters and which are silly or inappropriate. I go so far as to maintain lists from different cultures of suggested names. However, if the name is at least phonetically close to a given culture and not recognizably the name of a popular character, I'll let it slide. But that's me as a GM, playing at one my hobbies, not me as a business, trying to take in a customer who expects a service. I'd ideally want zero ridiculous names in PFO, but I'm arguing against my interest because I just can't see why a paying customer should be made to play the game like I would want them to.
Anyway, the three things that should limit how much Manboob we all have to see (heh):
1) Organizational pressure. Right now, a few large groups seem to be coalescing. Blaeringr has started hiring a bunch of bakers for mysterious reasons, then there's the Balanced Scales, the Seventh Veil, and Great Legionnaires. None of these groups look to eager to take in Manboobz and L3gol4s. If players want their character to be taken seriously by these groups, they're going to have to put a little more thought into who and what their character is than that. Players want interaction. They want to hang out with folks. If the players themselves have an internal more about no silly names, then new players will adopt it to fit in. Good behavior and maturity on the part of early adopters could (I hope!) establish a precedent.
Quite frankly, I would not be surprised for Drizz't to find a freshly baked roll in his bed every morning. Because bakers do care, and it must be hard sharing a name with such a grotesquely over-exposed character.
2) Garden-pathing. This is a really simple idea. Two kinds of people name their character Manboobs. One is a douchebag. The other has either such poverty of imagination or so little care for the material that their character's name means nothing to them. You can deflect these people fairly easily by using a name-generator to give these folks twenty five or so options at character creation, while still letting them enter in their own name. If you garden-path them towards a name, hopefully the "lazy" folks will find it easier to make a decent choice than to enter a foolish name. They will be glad of it as they start to find a place in the world, to make friends with other players, and to see the value of a vibrant community.
3) Social pressure. All the various chartered companies are likely to push members towards in-universe names. Now, suppose the other players did? You should never harass someone; I am staunchly against giving anyone out of character grief, no matter how big a d-bag they are. Let GW handle that stuff. However, since most players are not going to want to freely associate with S3ph1r0th and MadKillazReaperz and Cmdr Sh3pard, players who decide to take those names should feel that this group does, indeed, want you to develop a name, a character, and a voice. The more patient of us can try to convince them it's in their interest to make that choice. And if they really want to be Drizz't, well, they live with that choice.
Yes, I am an idealist.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm one of those "immersion and RP and setting and fluff" folks, and I still have trouble accepting that GW should force players to name their characters according to a set of rules. I'm going to propose three things that mitigate the problem and also could serve to nix Manboobs without bringing down mighty Goblin wrath on him.
I also agree, one trend I have noticed, horrible names are more often more succesful in games, the easier it is to get ahead by soloing. DDO for instance I didn't notice very much in the way of obnoxious names above level 6 or 7, I do think a large part of it was because it was not an easy game to solo, and I know myself I was pretty quick to refuse every message "Naruto77777 wants to join your party". As many people connect childish names to childish behavior. As a result the majority of people with those names either made new characters with names that are less likely to be denied outright, or quit the game becuase they found finding groups too difficult.
That association while not always justified, is more often correct than not, which will also lead to both less grouping for these individuals, and more being ganked, for 2 major reasons.
1. The person is assumed immature, will have a harder time finding groups, traveling far from high sec territory is unwise alone, so these people will be in greater danger.
2. They will be targetted by bandits, not necessarally out of dislike for the name, but because of what the name assumes. As a bandit I will assume naruto777, likely has little to no connection to large organizations (IE low odds of him taking revenge), is probably young (low player skill and common sense), etc...
As a result, if I am in a hideout looking for a prime ambush, and I see a member of The Great Legionares pass, then Blaringer pass, then Naruto777 pass. I could say with high probability that the target I chose to attack, will be naruto777.
A bad name creates a first impression of incompetence and imaturity. Which is fine in a solo focused game, in which your reputation and connections are nothing compared to your level and gear, but in games like PFO and Eve, where who you know is far more powerful then what you are, bad traits will be weeded out via natural selection.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that Nihimon is on the right track, asking for non-unique names.
Just looking at the USA, I'd suggest that there are *maybe* 10,000 different first names, and some of those are different spellings like Calista and Callista. Names for girls seem more varied than names for boys.
With 4,500 new accounts (or characters?) planned each month at the beginning of the game, we'll quickly get to the point that it gets hard to make a new, inventive, and in-character name.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Anyway, the three things that should limit how much Manboob we all have to see (heh)
I lol'ed :)
... bad traits will be weeded out via natural selection.
I think this is very likely.
I think that Nihimon is on the right track, asking for non-unique names.
Here's hoping Goblinworks has some innovative ideas and agrees that it's better for them to spend the effort now to make the game work with non-unique names than for us to struggle to find a "new, inventive, and in-character name" ourselves when 100,000 names have already been used up.
I meet you in the woods, far away from civilized areas, and I cut you down in cold-blood, that's cool. And if I see you again I can do it. And again. Forever, and that's awesomeWelp I know who I'll be avoiding playing on the same server as.No you don't :)
I'm talking about game design, not my character. I'll be playing the LG Cleric or Paladin that matches my idealized identity as a US Marine. But my goody-two shoes needs dramatic tension to push against: human conflict. So a game design like Ryan talks about here is attractive to me--outside civilized areas there will be conflict, including those who prey on the weak.
Those kind of people are my prey :)
It's more the mindset of that sort of thing being okay that I have issue with.
That said, I dislike PvP period, so the more I hear about this the less likely I am thinking I will be to play the game. I don't have any regrets about tossing GW my money because I support the Pathfinder brand, but I don't see much chance in me getting involved in the game itself at this rate. Unless there's some kind of "PvP Off-Switch" built into the game at least, which I rather doubt.
Say what you will about WoW, but the option to play on servers where you didn't risk getting attacked unless you specifically opened yourself up to it (either by tagging yourself as open for PvP, or attacking someone so tagged, or entering an area that automatically tagged you) was extremely attractive to me. It's a little less realistic, but it's a non-realism I personally am okay with. There are some people who really enjoy the "fighting an intelligent, non-AI-controlled opponent" and I wish them well, but me personally win or lose PvP always leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth, ever since NWN and up through WoW (never got into any in my short stint in FFXI, does it even have PvP? *shrug*).
I would be immensely pleased to discover GW implementing something along this line to PFO, but I'm not holding my breath. Again not a complaint against GW nor the people who enjoy that kind of play. Just a realization that I'm not the target audience here.
At the least, if I do play, I'm going to make a point of getting quite good at running away, heh.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Orthos, no one knows for sure exactly where the line will be drawn except maybe Ryan and Vic, and may be not even them.
For what it's worth, I believe Mbando is wrong to suggest that someone will be able to "cut you down in cold-blood... again... and again. Forever..." without running afoul of the moderators. I'm sure there are situations where that will be possible, but I can see some other situations where it won't be tolerated.
In short, don't let one person's opinion about how the game will work convince you to give up on it.
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Heh, nah it's not just one guy. I've been keeping tabs on the project board as a whole, though I don't post much. The PvP and group v. group aspects seem to be very much the draw of many players (though I hesitate to say the majority) and thus far I've seen very little regarding the "I just want to play and explore and manage my character, I am not interested in gaining/keeping ground aspects of the world and don't want to deal with PvP every time I leave town" crowd. For the time being at least, it appears the focus is rather heavily on the chartered company interactions and the territory game that will likely result as they expand. Like I said good for those who are into it, just not my kind of game.
I most certainly will give the game at least an attempt - at free-to-try, it'd be a shame to do otherwise, especially after putting in some cash already =)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Heh, nah it's not just one guy. I've been keeping tabs on the project board as a whole, though I don't post much. The PvP and group v. group aspects seem to be very much the draw of many players (though I hesitate to say the majority) and thus far I've seen very little regarding the "I just want to play and explore and manage my character, I am not interested in gaining/keeping ground aspects of the world and don't want to deal with PvP every time I leave town" crowd. For the time being at least, it appears the focus is rather heavily on the chartered company interactions and the territory game that will likely result as they expand. Like I said good for those who are into it, just not my kind of game.
I most certainly will give the game at least an attempt - at free-to-try, it'd be a shame to do otherwise, especially after putting in some cash already =)
** spoiler omitted **
The great legionaries exist to try and create that chance for you. We won't be mandating that people be part of the military to be a part of the group. We have room for explorers, crafters, hunters, and the like. We'd be happy to have you!
Well after Dancey's latest post in the other PvP thread, my interest has slackened significantly. Still, I got some goodies out of the offering so not a total loss.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess I see it as easiest to allow players to change things they might not like on their end. Of course there will be a base UI, but by allowing maximal customization, there will always be options. This is an approach that is proven to work...why not borrow that same approach for naming conventions? Of course, you cannot really change peoples names, but why not have a right-click "hide name" option that is specific to a character? This will allow you to just remove the offensive names from view...and if you ever need to interact you can always right-click and "unhide name".
Having this option to can even be an option of an option you choose in settings. This way if you do not care about peoples names, you do not have to have the option in your menu.
The more responsibility we can remove from devs/customer service, the more effort they can put in on other things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So you're okay with naming your guy Darth Vader and joining a chartered company named Da_E-LEET_Crew?The more relevant question is whether GW should be telling him he's not allowed to do that in their game. Obviously they can if that's what they want their game to be like, but I really don't see a very strong argument for should. And I really don't care if it distracts you tremendously from your berry sniffing, or RP'ing.
The big question to ask here is this, will NOT allowing someone to name themselves Darth Vader and create a company named Da_E-LEET-Crew detract from their experience as much as allowing it will detract from the experience of those who don't wish to see it? And which audience is this game targeted at?
To me the answer to both questions are obvious. No it won't, and this game is targeted at the roleplayers. If the fact that someone can't name themselves Darth Vader will inspire them to choose another game, they never belonged here anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, but my concern lies in the resources necessary for policing and judging. Simply allowing people to "rename" others...takes care of both the concerns you mention.
1) Darth can call themselves whatever they want...
2) I who am offended by Darth Vader as a name can simply rename them to "Crazy person" (obviously if they claim to be a psionics using cybernetic guy hell-bent on conquering the universe from the River Kingdoms)...taking care of my offence too.
Keeping these renamed records client-side prevents any additional resource requirements. I would prefer GW keep their resources for more important things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Funniest thing I ever saw with naming convention was in Haven & Hearth. One of the devs, I think, goes by the name "jorb". Some clever person called himself "iorb" to confuse things. jorb posted that, to prevent confusion, iorb's in-game name was changed, permanently, to _____. (I don't recall exactly what - it was nasty/funny, but at the time I thought "guess you don't mess with these indie developers".)
I'd be fine with the mods having some system for names that are outside the guidelines, where the player doesn't get to pick his new name, it's given to him. Something in keeping with the setting. We're all given our names in real life and it usually works out.
I'd also be fine with the ability to rename people and have those names client-side.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, but my concern lies in the resources necessary for policing and judging. Simply allowing people to "rename" others...takes care of both the concerns you mention.
1) Darth can call themselves whatever they want...
2) I who am offended by Darth Vader as a name can simply rename them to "Crazy person" (obviously if they claim to be a psionics using cybernetic guy hell-bent on conquering the universe from the River Kingdoms)...taking care of my offence too.
Keeping these renamed records client-side prevents any additional resource requirements. I would prefer GW keep their resources for more important things.
I really don't think it will take that much in the way of resources. Clearly state the rules of names in the same window where you create you name, and then have any moderator who sees non-RP names in-game force a namechange.
Obviously it isn't their primary responsibility but it will be enough to weed out everyone named AbeLincon VampHunter that isn't fairly new to the game. You could allow you to change their name on your end in addition but I don't want to not see the moderators have the ability to deal with it when they notice it and don't have more pressing concerns.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to throw my own two cents in here... But with the whole no special characters thing.
I personally find it annoying when in game I want to name character Björn(Which is the legitimate Swedish spelling of the name btw, and I am swedish) but can't because the game has had naming restrictions preventing the use of special characters. Now maybe some might say I am over reacting but at the same time I think I make a valid point.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, but my concern lies in the resources necessary for policing and judging. Simply allowing people to "rename" others...takes care of both the concerns you mention.
1) Darth can call themselves whatever they want...
2) I who am offended by Darth Vader as a name can simply rename them to "Crazy person" (obviously if they claim to be a psionics using cybernetic guy hell-bent on conquering the universe from the River Kingdoms)...taking care of my offence too.
Keeping these renamed records client-side prevents any additional resource requirements. I would prefer GW keep their resources for more important things.
I really don't think it will take that much in the way of resources. Clearly state the rules of names in the same window where you create you name, and then have any moderator who sees non-RP names in-game force a namechange.
Obviously it isn't their primary responsibility but it will be enough to weed out everyone named AbeLincon VampHunter that isn't fairly new to the game. You could allow you to change their name on your end in addition but I don't want to not see the moderators have the ability to deal with it when they notice it and don't have more pressing concerns.
Well, I cannot hazard a guess how much resources it will take to police the population for names...it can definitely be reduced by only responding to complaints and not allowing those who feel they are RPing or justified in using a given name a chance to defend themselves. Likewise, a list of "archetypical" fantasy names/characters could be initially collated and simply refused during character creation (although this seems a bit heavy handed)...but, in my opinion...and granted I understand it is only my opinion, any resources dedicated to dealing with names while the game is live is wasted resources.
I would rather they pay out of work actors to log on as deities, whispering causes and missions to their most devout followers than pay in-game CSRs to police this stuff...even if only for a few hours a week, the tiny amount of time that might have been dedicated to policing names...especially when they can just give us the ability to remove/hide the source of our offence.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to throw my own two cents in here... But with the whole no special characters thing.
I personally find it annoying when in game I want to name character Björn(Which is the legitimate Swedish spelling of the name btw, and I am swedish) but can't because the game has had naming restrictions preventing the use of special characters. Now maybe some might say I am over reacting but at the same time I think I make a valid point.
Well I would have to say 2 things to that,
1. Your character can't be sweedish. We speak common around these parts, learn the language.But seriously, there comes issues when other players can't type your name for purposes of ignoring, inviting, trading, potentially setting allow/deny rules for NPC guards if player lead NPC guards exist, etc...
Most americans and other countries do not have internationally set keyboards, and simply can't be expected to memorize alt + ### codes. Plus of course that adds in the risk of major conflicts of people manipulating names, adding in Bjόrn, Björn, Bjorn and who knows how many other variants to either fool people into thinking they are you, or impersonating GMs etc...
Now if the game did go with the "people can give out any name they want, and label any name they want". I have no problem with special characters. I find that outcome unlikely primarally due to the scenerio of "OK you joined a guild of 500 people.
??: Welcome
??: welcome
??: HI
??: Hello
Even if they got smart and introduced themselves by name... just imagine having to spend an hour naming an entire guild/charter/settlement at once.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Even if they got smart and introduced themselves by name... just imagine having to spend an hour naming an entire guild/charter/settlement at once.
Man...that would suck! Just like in RL... *grin*
While I actually wish they would force initial anonymity, (I am also not a fan of magical telepathy in the form of any chat but spatial ones...but I understand I am in the minority) I agree it is unlikely to the point of impossibility...but that does not mean they could not just allow us the ability to give others nicknames. Give me a: /name "Onishi" "Silly Joe", command that stores a record in my local client that converts labels in the chat from Onishi to Silly Joe...and also changes your Nameplate...for me. I can send a text to either /t Onishi, or /t Silly Joe and they will both go to you.
There would still be confusion between people who know others as different names...but this happens in RL too.
This way when any name offends me, I can change it to something less offensive. Of course, I might be wrong...there will probably be those who feel someone else's name is wrecking their enjoyment...and they should not have the burden of fixing the problem.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Give me a: /name "Onishi" "Silly Joe", command that stores a record in my local client that converts labels in the chat from Onishi to Silly Joe...and also changes your Nameplate...for me. I can send a text to either /t Onishi, or /t Silly Joe and they will both go to you.
There would still be confusion between people who know others as different names...but this happens in RL too.
This way when any name offends me, I can change it to something less offensive.
One slight issue with that idea, while on paper it sounds good, what happens if you do that, and next week someone makes a character Silly Joe. Who gets the message when you /t Silly Joe.
Me who you coded as silly joe, or the actual Silly Joe.
I agree though on the forced anonymity, it does add a layer of realism, at the same time though that form of visibility in alliences is something that helps. IRL people tend to stay in cliques, There isn't often a general company chat etc... in a large company, accounting just dosn't talk to IT, and so on short of the brief moments where their jobs overlap.
Of course the forced anonymity could work with a guild exception. IE when someone is added to a chartered company or settlement, they are given an internal name visible to all internal members, that could be overriden by a personal name. Of course that being said it is a mechanic that would impress some, and annoy others, and if it repels more people than it attracts, that would not be a good thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That is a good point I had not considered Onishi...it would not matter in the forced anonymity because technically you could not send a message to anyone you had not met...and you could use identical nicknames for multiple people...but I will concede the lack of consideration and mark it as a possible fatal flaw.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Even in the forced anonymity model, every character needs a unique identifier 'visible' to the player. What benefit is given by that being a number assigned by the server, rather than a name created by the player?
Introducing every member of a guild would be done by sending an update of the client-side /who files, including the names of everybody in the guild, as well as naming anyone the guild has had positive or negative interactions with. Keeping important things like a known persons or even a friends list on the client means that there is a significant amount of technical savvy required for one user to use more than one computer to play, even briefly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't agree. A visible unique identifier for a character is not needed (and I would argue...that for me it is not even wanted) until that character becomes a unique character separate from the non-unique unnamed masses in the eyes of the player.
Agreed about the ease of updating the "rolodex" for any association membership. Also agreed that those who play on multiple computers would have to keep the files synced. This could be done in a dropbox manner...logging in syncs your "official" client-side files. This keeps the additional network traffic limited to log in and log out times.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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In that case, the first thing I do is assign player ID 1 the name 1, and so forth, using an automated process. It's just a file on my machine, and support for syncing requires that the format be known. Now everyone has a number visible to me that is unique and cannot be spoofed.
The issue isn't the network traffic, it's the storage space. It's unreasonable to ask the typical player to set up a dropbox account and keep their name list synced with their friends', or to require manual introductions every time you see a new person.
Being able to identify the person or people talking to you does not break immersion less than having a file get corrupted and forgetting everyone's name.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to throw my own two cents in here... But with the whole no special characters thing.
I personally find it annoying when in game I want to name character Björn(Which is the legitimate Swedish spelling of the name btw, and I am swedish) but can't because the game has had naming restrictions preventing the use of special characters. Now maybe some might say I am over reacting but at the same time I think I make a valid point.
Well I would have to say 2 things to that,
1. Your character can't be sweedish. We speak common around these parts, learn the language.
Your right. My character can't be Swedish, it would be Ulfen and speak Skald(Page 34 of the Campaign Settings) where there would be special characters.
But to your point of alt keys and so forth, that is where the wonderfulness of initial anonymity comes in. You can name my character "Dude with funny O" and be done with it.
AS for the Company Aspect I think it should go by rank. If there are 5 Captains in your company then you have Captain1, Captain2, ect when you first meet them or they respond in chat. From there you can change their name as you wish.
It's unreasonable to ask the typical player to set up a dropbox account and keep their name list synced with their friends', or to require manual introductions every time you see a new person.
Being able to identify the person or people talking to you does not break immersion less than having a file get corrupted and forgetting everyone's name.
Why is it unreasonable to require manual introductions? I know at least 2 existing games that play that way, and it seems to work for them. Until you change the name, or are introduced, you see only a brief description (eg. "An elderly man approaches you" or "A woman in early adulthood looks up as you enter")
*shrugs*
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Goblin Squad Member
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In that case, the first thing I do is assign player ID 1 the name 1, and so forth, using an automated process. It's just a file on my machine, and support for syncing requires that the format be known. Now everyone has a number visible to me that is unique and cannot be spoofed.
Well, although I would prefer forced anonymity, no names on nameplates or chat except those you manually enter (or use an automated share system...right-click request info, other person confirms...or vice versa) I specifically tried to draw up a compromise that allows everyone to have whatever name they desire...like is normally done at character creation in an MMO. Then, what I asked for was a way to override those names on my client alone. From there it is actually a short step to only show those names you have stored...as you have them stored.
The issue isn't the network traffic, it's the storage space. It's unreasonable to ask the typical player to set up a dropbox account and keep their name list synced with their friends', or to require manual introductions every time you see a new person.
I said the client could do with a dropbox type sync, I said nothing about having to setup or buy dropbox. When you install your game, your rolodex is created...possibly as something as simple as a single delimited text file. Most games do create a folder for specific accounts that log into a game and store information about their user preferences and such in it...which does usually get created and sync when you log into a new computer. This text file would just be an additional sync.
Being able to identify the person or people talking to you does not break immersion less than having a file get corrupted and forgetting everyone's name.
Because that would be totally unrealistic...and lead to some good RP. Or, you just share a file with a friend who you know has similar records, maybe a guild mate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Simply tag each character with the name they used when they introduced themselves to me, and give me the option of giving them a nickname. This solves all the problems: 1) names that aren't lore-appropriate; 2) names that aren't unique; 3) names that have special characters that are hard for me to type. And I don't have to manually enter hundreds of names. I just change the ones I want to change.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would, however, want my custom names to be stored on GW's servers, though. Just like I want my UI options to be stored on their servers. It sucks enough losing a client PC, it shouldn't have to double-plus suck because now none of my shortkeys or nicknames work.
[Edit] It can be stored as simple XML on a low-priority server.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There needs to be a human-readable unique ID for interaction, so that humans can name who they want to interact with, and share those names with other humans. "Give 10 coin to Dorto" needs to mean something specific, not something that changes meaning when a fourth party introduces themselves as Dorto.