thejeff |
From a financial perspective, the death threats were a stroke of massive luck for her, considering the attention they brought. An unprincipled person could have faked such comments for the economic bottom line. Lucky she is not such a person.
Possibly, possibly not. Depending on how principled she is.
If I'd done fundraising to make a cheap video or two and got more than 20 times what I'd asked for, I'd feel obligated to actually make the $140,000 worth of video. Do I have the time/talent to do that? Can I up the quality of production and of my presentation enough for the higher standard? Do I have $140,000 worth of things to say?
Do I have time? Do I quit my job and try to go into making videos full time? That'll eat through the cash pretty quick. Can I get more funding when it runs out or will I have to job hunt again?
Do I do it part time and drag it out much longer?
And do I worry about the threats and potential actual loonies? Do I keep antagonizing them in hopes of drumming up more attention?
Of course, if you're willing to just make the original cheap video and pocket the rest of the cash, it's a huge stroke of financial luck.
ciretose |
It's possible you're right. That she's a wonderful PR op and that everything's worked just as she planned. That she's laughing about the money and soaking up the attention.It's also possible that she was, as she said originally, planning to get a few grand for a single video and was totally unprepared for the vehemence of the response and for it to go viral. Possibly even overwhelmed by the amount of money she got and worried about being able to produce enough or enough quality to justify it.
And possibly still worried that one of those crazied might be serious.
And I think that you assuming she is naive rather than clever is something worth discussing.
I don't think you would make the same assumption if she were a man. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Guy Humual |
Guy Humual wrote:... the poor dear.Sissyl wrote:From a financial perspective, the death threats were a stroke of massive luck for her, considering the attention they brought. An unprincipled person could have faked such comments for the economic bottom line. Lucky she is not such a person.Lucky her . . .
ciretose |
My response has to the part of that post you didn't quote. I am not willing to just accept the part of the Internet that produces this bile. Until they learn to not be idiots I will continue to perceive them as reprehensible attackers and I will show sympathy to who they directed their bile towards.
It doesn't matter if this was her goal all along. It doesn't matter if she benefited from those comments. Those threats should have never been made. Those people forfeited this argument as soon as they hit the submit button.
I am not accepting of arguments that rely on, "it is just a part of the community."
And all babies should eat, and people should always be nice to each other, and I should be able to eat ice cream without getting fat.
No one is defending anyone threatening her, or anyone. And if they are, they are wrong.
That you can't accept something, doesn't make it not true.
There is showing sympathy and projecting pity. I personally am looking at this going "Damn, she's good."
And I think it is patronizing and insulting to start from the assumption of her ignorance.
And that, IMHO, is the real issue to address with regards to Gender equality. Until society stops viewing women as in need of care, and therefore less than men, we ain't getting to the mountaintop, boys and girls.
If she is a type of expert on the internet and video games worth giving money to so we can hear what she has to say (which is what is proported and seems to me to be the case) it takes a huge suspension of disbelief to think she didn't realize there would be a backlash from the knuckledraggers on this.
And good for her for setting a trap for them that they walked right into.
ciretose |
Personally I'd prefer to get funding without threats of death or rape, but thankfully I'm not interested in writing about edgy topics like Mario Brothers, or making controversial statements like "The damsel in distress plot is overused", I mean otherwise I'd be asking for it.
Have you been able to get over 150,000 dollars to make Youtube videos?
She has.
Controversy = $
Guy Humual |
And I think that you assuming she is naive rather than clever is something worth discussing.
I don't think you would make the same assumption if she were a man. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Because I'd totally expect that kind of backlash if I decided to ask for funding for an in depth review of video games. I mean how could she not have seen that one coming?
Maybe you can answer a question I asked earlier: What's so controversial about her topic?
ciretose |
Krensky wrote:Totally asking for itGuy Humual wrote:... the poor dear.Sissyl wrote:From a financial perspective, the death threats were a stroke of massive luck for her, considering the attention they brought. An unprincipled person could have faked such comments for the economic bottom line. Lucky she is not such a person.Lucky her . . .
When you compare this to rape, you might as well compare the people writing her to hitler, as you have functionally Godwined the thread and lost all credibility.
thejeff |
thejeff wrote:
It's possible you're right. That she's a wonderful PR op and that everything's worked just as she planned. That she's laughing about the money and soaking up the attention.It's also possible that she was, as she said originally, planning to get a few grand for a single video and was totally unprepared for the vehemence of the response and for it to go viral. Possibly even overwhelmed by the amount of money she got and worried about being able to produce enough or enough quality to justify it.
And possibly still worried that one of those crazied might be serious.And I think that you assuming she is naive rather than clever is something worth discussing.
I don't think you would make the same assumption if she were a man. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
I don't think she's naive. I also don't think it's particularly clever to have a plan that relies on "Then my video goes viral and the money rolls in."
If she's mastered that then she's better than anyone else in the business.You also cut the part where I said "I suspect I'd be reacting more the second way", but continue to assume it's all about underestimating her and protecting the damsel in distress.
ciretose |
ciretose wrote:And I think that you assuming she is naive rather than clever is something worth discussing.
I don't think you would make the same assumption if she were a man. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Because I'd totally expect that kind of backlash if I decided to ask for funding for an in depth review of video games. I mean how could she not have seen that one coming?
Maybe you can answer a question I asked earlier: What's so controversial about her topic?
So you assume she was naive?
I don't find the topic is controversial at all, personally. However I fully understand Nerd rage exists, and that segments of the internet will got nuts if you say the wrong thing about Dr. Who.
Do you believe she is so naive that she isn't aware of Nerd Rage?
thejeff |
Guy Humual wrote:When you compare this to rape, you might as well compare the people writing her to hitler, as you have functionally Godwined the thread and lost all credibility.Krensky wrote:Totally asking for itGuy Humual wrote:... the poor dear.Sissyl wrote:From a financial perspective, the death threats were a stroke of massive luck for her, considering the attention they brought. An unprincipled person could have faked such comments for the economic bottom line. Lucky she is not such a person.Lucky her . . .
Because rape threats and rape are completely unrelated.
It's like comparing someone ranting about how all the Jews need to die to Hitler. Obviously there are no similarities.
ciretose |
I don't think she's naive. I also don't think it's particularly clever to have a plan that relies on "Then my video goes viral and the money rolls in."
If she's mastered that then she's better than anyone else in the business.You also cut the part where I said "I suspect I'd be reacting more the second way", but continue to assume it's all about underestimating her and protecting the damsel in distress.
Never seen you rushing to the aid of James O'Keefe, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Keith Olberman, half of the video game reviewers who have ever written anything...etc...etc...
Do you not think that she, as a web publisher by more or less profession, doesn't understand her market?
Really?
Guy Humual |
Guy Humual wrote:When you compare this to rape, you might as well compare the people writing her to hitler, as you have functionally Godwined the thread and lost all credibility.Krensky wrote:Totally asking for itGuy Humual wrote:... the poor dear.Sissyl wrote:From a financial perspective, the death threats were a stroke of massive luck for her, considering the attention they brought. An unprincipled person could have faked such comments for the economic bottom line. Lucky she is not such a person.Lucky her . . .
When I compare cyber bullying to . . . cyber bullying that resulted in suicide it makes you feel uncomfortable? Quick! Call Godwin!
ciretose |
ciretose wrote:When I compare cyber bullying to . . . cyber bullying that resulted in suicide it makes you feel uncomfortable? Quick! Call Godwin!Guy Humual wrote:When you compare this to rape, you might as well compare the people writing her to hitler, as you have functionally Godwined the thread and lost all credibility.Krensky wrote:Totally asking for itGuy Humual wrote:... the poor dear.Sissyl wrote:From a financial perspective, the death threats were a stroke of massive luck for her, considering the attention they brought. An unprincipled person could have faked such comments for the economic bottom line. Lucky she is not such a person.Lucky her . . .
So you are comparing her to teenage girls.
Interesting...
Guy Humual |
Guy Humual wrote:ciretose wrote:And I think that you assuming she is naive rather than clever is something worth discussing.
I don't think you would make the same assumption if she were a man. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Because I'd totally expect that kind of backlash if I decided to ask for funding for an in depth review of video games. I mean how could she not have seen that one coming?
Maybe you can answer a question I asked earlier: What's so controversial about her topic?
So you assume she was naive?
I don't find the topic is controversial at all, personally. However I fully understand Nerd rage exists, and that segments of the internet will got nuts if you say the wrong thing about Dr. Who.
Do you believe she is so naive that she isn't aware of Nerd Rage?
So if you don't think the topic was controversial why keep touting it as such? What happened to her was controversial and completely undeserving.
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Whether Ms. Sarkeesian deserved the money or is doing a good job with it or whatever is ultimately irrelevant to anyone that did not back her Kickstarter, including myself, as we are not her "shareholders". For the rest of us, we simply have her arguments to consider.
Anyway, I hesitate to come back in this thread, but... in the video, Sarkeesian recommends a couple of indie games that actually look at the death of a woman in an interesting way--Dear Esther, To The Moon, and Passage. I am not familiar with the latter, but I am familiar with the first two, and I want to strongly encourage anyone who would enjoy a very different kind of game to play these two.
Dear Esther is a little iffy in my mind, although it's definitely worth a play. It feels a little too disjointed and abstract to me. However, the writing is superb and it's an enjoyable and quick play-through that explores the effects of death upon a man.
To The Moon is one of my most favourite indie games, and I only wish there was more like it. Not only does it use the death of a woman in a positive and thoughtful way, it also has a look at the effects of ableism on a person which is not something I see in many games at all! Prepare your tissues however because dat ending ;_;
(Another cool thing about TTM: You can choose to play as a PoC woman who is all kinds of awesome, yet isn't a caricature or forced to become "The Black Woman". Yays.)
Both of them are relatively cheap, you can pick them up on Steam, GOG, and Origin for $10 or less (and actually you can grab Dear Esther as part of the Humble Indie Bundle 8 going on right now).
Alice, what is To the Moon about? (I know I said I'd leave, but I had to ask this. :) )
Dear Esther did bore me silly, but I did want to check out the other games listed as good examples.
Guy Humual |
So you are comparing her to teenage girls.Interesting...
It is interesting, really telling that you can't have an ounce of sympathy for four teen girls that couldn't stand the cyber bullying any longer and felt the need to take their own lives, and that you want to believe that cyber bullying is no big deal because to do otherwise would . . . I don't know, mean you have a soul? No let's keep deflecting the issue and pretend this is no big deal, I mean it's not happening to you, and she did get some money out of it, so she probably planned the whole thing. too bad those other girls couldn't cash in as well eh?
ciretose |
ciretose wrote:It is interesting, really telling that you can't have an ounce of sympathy for four teen girls that couldn't stand the cyber bullying any longer and felt the need to take their own lives, and that you want to believe that cyber bullying is no big deal because to do otherwise would . . . I don't know, mean you have a soul? No let's keep deflecting the issue and pretend this is no big deal, I mean it's not happening to you, and she did get some money out of it, so she probably planned the whole thing. too bad those other girls couldn't cash in as well eh?
So you are comparing her to teenage girls.Interesting...
I have sympathy for them.
She isn't a teenage girl.
If you think adult women are as fragile as teenagers, that such a comparison makes logical sense, that says a lot.
EDIT: Not to mention the difference between people who actually part of your social circle and random people on the internet...
Guy Humual |
If you are truly comparing rape to stupid anonymous comments on the internet, you are only worth my pity.
Yes, the four cases of cyber bullying I cited were totally about rape, but don't worry about the pity as I get the feeling that you might be incapable of feeling it. If you can please pass any you might spare onto Ms. Sarkeesian. I've got very thick skin and feed on hate.
Guy Humual |
If you think adult women are as fragile as teenagers, that such a comparison makes logical sense, that says a lot.
EDIT: Not to mention the difference between people who actually part of your social circle and random people on the internet...
Good to know, adults aren't bothered by comments on the internet. She probably disabled comments on her videos because she was tired of all the money her controversy was generating.
Dan Rope |
After receiving such quantity of money the a.t.m. only video of its Tropes vs. Women series is not much better than its old videos.
Other thing I don't like is that she ironically does not provide solutions or ideas to solve this perceived problem.
Maybe the reason behind the lack of femenist videogames is that they wouldn't be profitable, as simple as that. Investors don't care about machismo or femenism they care about what can get them profit. No evil agenda behind that, imho.
And she does not acknowledge that the portrayal of men in videogames is also sexist. I mean, they are also buffed with toned bodies, heavenly abs... you name it!
Aranna |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And she does not acknowledge that the portrayal of men in videogames is also sexist. I mean, they are also buffed with toned bodies, heavenly abs... you name it!
Women are objectified... being largely powerless even in their own stories and reduced to being possessions or prizes for men. And they have to look pretty for their men.
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.
Can you see the huge difference? I hope so.
Guy Humual |
Dan Rope wrote:As I suggested earlier, the money has raised the bar for her, despite her not asking for it or promising any better quality in return for it.After receiving such quantity of money the a.t.m. only video of its Tropes vs. Women series is not much better than its old videos.
I think it is a fair complaint and perhaps it will be something she addresses at some point. She might consider graphics or more of a set. She didn't promise anything but it would be nice to see that money spent on improving future videos.
Don Juan de Doodlebug |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mean DM and I have been PMing and we've decided to form our own organization that will stand aside as an independent faction within this thread. From here on in, we shall be the Objectifiers of Hawt Women For Anita! Fanclub (OHWFA! for short, which is the involuntary sound we make when we gaze upon her sharp but appealing Caucasian features and stare into her warm brown eyes, like, like, pools of chocolate....drool).
We wish Anita all the best, and much financial success, but wish she was a more interesting critic. On the other hand, if being such a mediocre feminist critic is enough to earn her death threats and rape comments, well, that speaks very poorly of all us boys.
In the future, though, I hope Ms. Sarkeesian will think about going back to The Hunger Games and teasing out some of the intersectional themes that might be a bit more interesting than "Ew--love triangle!"
Here's one for free:
Discuss how Katniss, who, after the death of her father was forced to assume traditionally male gender roles, and who was only ever thrown down the narrative path of the whole series because of her willingness to sacrifice for her sister, is devastated and victory is made hollow by this strike modelled on the patriarchalist imperialist white supremacist U.S. war of aggression in the Middle East and how only international proletarian socialist revolution can root out the special oppression of women by the extirpation of class society.
Vive le Galt!
"Ew--love triangle!"
Dan Rope |
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Can you see the huge difference? I hope so.
Women are equally idealized, are you implying that women can not desire men or that women can't envy female characters for their outstanding looks?
Aranna |
Why on earth are people vilifying her for asking to get paid a small amount to do what she felt there was a demand for? SO WHAT if she was doing a slightly lower budget thing for free already. Does that forever disqualify her from trying to get a modest $6k for her work? She raised six figures instead. Again bravo, clearly there was far more demand for this than even she thought there would be. I fail to see the issue here. And IF this money was partly or even mostly due to the pity cash after she was horribly attacked online, again NOT HER FAULT as people like Ciretose seem to claim, as if she were some diabolical mastermind. NO ONE could have predicted the massive backlash against her proposal OR the amount it would eventually raise.
thejeff |
thejeff wrote:I think it is a fair complaint and perhaps it will be something she addresses at some point. She might consider graphics or more of a set. She didn't promise anything but it would be nice to see that money spent on improving future videos.Dan Rope wrote:As I suggested earlier, the money has raised the bar for her, despite her not asking for it or promising any better quality in return for it.After receiving such quantity of money the a.t.m. only video of its Tropes vs. Women series is not much better than its old videos.
It's sort of a fair complaint, but it's also to be expected. This was an odd Kickstarter. The money donated was not because people thought her videos were so great that there was overwhelming demand for more of them, but as a response to the attacks. Thus the absolutely ridiculous jump between what she was asking for and what she got.
But you can't shutdown a Kickstarter part way, saying "I've got enough money, I don't need anymore."Can projects raise more money than their goal?
Yes. If a project reaches its funding goal before time expires, projects continue to accept pledges until the funding deadline. There is no option to end a project early.
After all, Kickstarter gets a cut of that.
Now she's stuck with trying to produce content that lives up to something she never planned for.
MeanDM |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mean DM and I have been PMing and we've decided to form our own organization that will stand aside as an independent faction within this thread. From here on in, we shall be the Objectifiers of Hawt Women For Anita! Fanclub (OHWFA! for short, which is the involuntary sound we make when we gaze upon her sharp but appealing Caucasian features and stare into her warm brown eyes, like, like, pools of chocolate....drool).
We wish Anita all the best, and much financial success, but wish she was a more interesting critic. On the other hand, if being such a mediocre feminist critic is enough to earn her death threats and rape comments, well, that speaks very poorly of all us boys.
In the future, though, I hope Ms. Sarkeesian will think about going back to The Hunger Games and teasing out some of the intersectional themes that might be a bit more interesting than "Ew--love triangle!"
Here's one for free:
** spoiler omitted **
"Ew--love triangle!"
** spoiler omitted **
Nope! It deserves to exist! Viva la OHWFA!
ciretose |
ciretose wrote:Good to know, adults aren't bothered by comments on the internet. She probably disabled comments on her videos because she was tired of all the money her controversy was generating.If you think adult women are as fragile as teenagers, that such a comparison makes logical sense, that says a lot.
EDIT: Not to mention the difference between people who actually part of your social circle and random people on the internet...
Just like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins...oh wait...
Adults are adults. If you can't wear big girl pants in the face of attacks from Anonymous Internet Tough Guys, you probably shouldn't choose posting opinions on the internet as your profession.
I think she is an adult, was aware of how the internet works, and is now wealthy and famous.
Good for her!
Aranna |
Aranna wrote:Women are equally idealized, are you implying that women can not desire men or that women can't envy female characters for their outstanding looks?
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Can you see the huge difference? I hope so.
The fault in your statement is "equally".
Some games idealize both men and women usually fighting games with both male and female playable characters. This is even held up by Ms. Sarkeesian as a positive example, if people actually bother to listen to her videos. BUT a large number of games objectify women, you would be hard pressed to even find one game that objectifies men.thejeff |
Aranna wrote:Women are equally idealized, are you implying that women can not desire men or that women can't envy female characters for their outstanding looks?
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Can you see the huge difference? I hope so.
It's all perfectly equal.
Women are idealized for male standards. And so are the men.No sexism at all.
Sissyl |
Sissyl wrote:If you are truly comparing rape to stupid anonymous comments on the internet, you are only worth my pity.Yes, the four cases of cyber bullying I cited were totally about rape, but don't worry about the pity as I get the feeling that you might be incapable of feeling it. If you can please pass any you might spare onto Ms. Sarkeesian. I've got very thick skin and feed on hate.
All I am saying is that while stupid comments can be bad, and of course there are systematic psychological abuse campaigns over a long time period that could result in suicides, the simple fact is that actually raping someone is a completely different ballgame to comments. Do yourself a favour and recognize that. Just a friendly hint.
Kevin Mack |
Kevin Mack wrote:Guy Humual wrote:Icyshadow wrote:
So what do you call those people who do say/believe such claims, then? Feminazis?Usually I'd call them imaginary constructs.
Icyshadow wrote:As to why she disabled responses, video or otherwise, I'd think that would have something to do with the death threats, personal attacks, and misrepresentation of her work. Just a guess however.And really, the fact that so many responses to Anita's video pointed out flaws in it speaks for itself.
By responses I mean video responses, not posts on the video itself. If I remember right, she disabled those.
Which is one thing that does bother me about all this while I do believe the comments were vile and horrific I cant help but think she set out to set up the situation to be this way
What I mean is she seems to have comments on all her other videos disabled except for this one, uses the comments to gain attention, then when she has her funding disables the comments again.
If she Disables comments normally to avoid such remarks why allow them on this video and then only disable them once she has got her funding?
Did she have comments disabled before the firestorm started?
On her older videos, I mean?
Yes she does far as I remember. It was a big critasism of it at the time.
Dan Rope |
It's all perfectly equal.
Women are idealized for male standards. And so are the men.No sexism at all.
Sarcasm, eh? That's original. You just proved my point. If a woman is sexy is to serve the male gaze. If a man is sexy is just a wish fulfillment for men.
What are the female standards for men; care to enlighten me, please?
Don Juan de Doodlebug |
Can one cite female standards women are 'supposed' to idealize without sounding sexist, and also have them completely different from men?
Seprate but equal, I guess?
IIRC, there is a checklist you can find in her video on True Grit.
(When she rolls her eyes and sighs, I die...OHWFA!)
Kevin Mack |
Aranna wrote:Women are equally idealized, are you implying that women can not desire men or that women can't envy female characters for their outstanding looks?
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Can you see the huge difference? I hope so.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7290-Objectificati on-And-Men
Explains it better than I could.
Chris Lambertz Digital Products Assistant |
Guy Humual |
thejeff wrote:
It's all perfectly equal.
Women are idealized for male standards. And so are the men.No sexism at all.
Sarcasm, eh? That's original. You just proved my point. If a woman is sexy is to serve the male gaze. If a man is sexy is just a wish fulfillment for men.
What are the female standards for men; care to enlighten me, please?
I'll let the Shortpacked! comic do that
Aranna |
Aranna wrote:
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Just like women on fashion magazines!
I bet you think those are wonderful for women, right?
Apples and Oranges.
I have never once said "I wish I was just like a video game character". The idealization in video games isn't real just a silly fantasy and we all know it... at least I hope we all do. I shudder to think of the boy who charges into a real life street guns blazing while dressed all cool just because he saw it on a video game.Fashion magazines try to tell us this is how we should look and act in real life. Not very productive unless taken with a grain of salt. On the other hand I actually use these magazines to see new looks and tips that I might want to try myself. And I understand that that is why they idealize the models. So that those of us looking for a new look will pay to see the latest trends from some idealized models. I also don't expect to look just like the model does... many younger girls do think they should look like that and it is damaging. But since this thread is about video games it is kinda pointless to drag fashion magazines into it. Apples and Oranges. Like I mentioned no one tries to copy an idealized video game character in real life, we all seem to realize this isn't reality.
Aranna |
Dan Rope wrote:Aranna wrote:Women are equally idealized, are you implying that women can not desire men or that women can't envy female characters for their outstanding looks?
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Can you see the huge difference? I hope so.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7290-Objectificati on-And-Men
Explains it better than I could.
Is your real name Jim Sterling?
You love linking his work. He has it mostly right though so I shouldn't complain.
He kinda reminds me of Rush Limbaugh in a video game way.
Guy Humual |
Guy Humual wrote:All I am saying is that while stupid comments can be bad, and of course there are systematic psychological abuse campaigns over a long time period that could result in suicides, the simple fact is that actually raping someone is a completely different ballgame to comments. Do yourself a favour and recognize that. Just a friendly hint.Sissyl wrote:If you are truly comparing rape to stupid anonymous comments on the internet, you are only worth my pity.Yes, the four cases of cyber bullying I cited were totally about rape, but don't worry about the pity as I get the feeling that you might be incapable of feeling it. If you can please pass any you might spare onto Ms. Sarkeesian. I've got very thick skin and feed on hate.
Do yourself a favor and maybe read the post before assuming. My links were about cyber bullying, two of the girls were also sexual assaulted, but it was the long term psychological abuse that was common in all four examples. Maybe we could view abuse as being bad instead of trying to grade it? Maybe threats are sure not as serious as actual murder and rape, but they're horrible, and while you might think it's the sort of thing you could laugh off not everyone is capable of that. How about we stop pretending it's no big deal? Just a friendly suggestion.
ciretose |
ciretose wrote:Aranna wrote:
Men are idealized... They are given all the power to face down any threat (usually through violence) and they have to look awesome doing it so other men can envy them.Just like women on fashion magazines!
I bet you think those are wonderful for women, right?
Apples and Oranges.
I have never once said "I wish I was just like a video game character". The idealization in video games isn't real just a silly fantasy and we all know it... at least I hope we all do.
So tropes for men are silly fantasy, but tropes for women are "serious business".
You can't argue men are taught by these games, and not deal with the idealized expectation put on them as well.
Having to deal with both edges of the sword causes problems with your argument is your problem, not mine.
It is, in fact, my entire issue on here. You can't be both the victim and the hero.