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Manyshot and differently enhanced arrows


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A "simple" question: if a archer is using manyshot, what will happen if he use differently enhanced arrows?

As an extreme example a +5 arrow and a mundane arrow?

What attack bonus is used to hit the target?

As far as I can see it it is not possible to use arrows with different to hit bonuses in a manyshot attack.

In another thread Wraithstrike say that manyshot is "always" used, that you don't have/can't chose not to use it, but this simple question seem to point out that using it is a choice. One that is almost mandatory, but sometime people can choose differently, especially if hey have a "one of a kind" arrow that must hit and so want to fire it with the attack with the highest BAB.

Star Voter 2013

Diego Rossi wrote:

In another thread Wraithstrike say that manyshot is "always" used, that you don't have/can't chose not to use it

Feat are supposed to add not to restrict, it surprise that answer from wraithstrike.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ask your GM. Rule not defined.

If wraithstrike said that, he's probably just being pedantic to prove a point about RAW.

Star Voter 2013

As for the Op I think this need a FAQ.

Star Voter 2013

I would say you use the lower bonus since one attack roll determines both arrows outcome.

You would however get more damage off the +3 arrow.

Star Voter 2013

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Also makes you wonder how using different arrows affects clustered shots?

Does an arrow who isn't effected by the still count towards total damage to overcome DR?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Talonhawke wrote:

Also makes you wonder how using different arrows affects clustered shots?

Does an arrow who isn't effected by the still count towards total damage to overcome DR?

A discussion about Clustered shot was what prompted Wraitstrike comment. :-)

I think that you can always decide not to use a feat, at least one that is part of a action, Wraith was disagreeing and used manyshot as an example.

About the specific question, I think it will count, as clustered shot has a second benefit where summing up as much damage as possible is useful: "Special: If the massive damage optional rule is being used (Core Rulebook 189), that rule applies if the total damage you deal with this feat is equal to or exceeds half the opponent's full normal hit points (minimum 50 points of damage)."


I'd say you use your higher attack modifier. I really don't see how this would break the game in any way, it just adds an extra arrow to the damage, and if that arrow has a lower enhancement bonus, well then it does a little less damage.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

MyTThor seems to have the right of it by me, it is your first attack that fires both arrows therefore one roll and let the magic of the arrow correct as it can giving that arrow a bonus.


Diego Rossi wrote:

A "simple" question: if a archer is using manyshot, what will happen if he use differently enhanced arrows?

As an extreme example a +5 arrow and a mundane arrow?

What attack bonus is used to hit the target?

As far as I can see it it is not possible to use arrows with different to hit bonuses in a manyshot attack.

In another thread Wraithstrike say that manyshot is "always" used, that you don't have/can't chose not to use it, but this simple question seem to point out that using it is a choice. One that is almost mandatory, but sometime people can choose differently, especially if hey have a "one of a kind" arrow that must hit and so want to fire it with the attack with the highest BAB.

Just to be clear I was saying it is always on unless you don't want to use it because it was stated that the Cluster shot feat had to be activated, when it has similar wording to manyshot meaning it is always on also.

As to this question I think we have found a loophole in the rules, and it should be FAQ'd.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

+1 to MyTThor's approach.

If using different enchantments, I read the attack routine as 'Make only one attack roll for the two arrows fired with Manyshot, calculating success or failure individually.'

Insisting on the exact wording of rules, to use your +5 $enemy bane arrow to increase the hit chance of your accompanying +1 flaming shocking caustic cacophonic arrow of $enemy slaying is pretty much like insisting that 'I can swap out a known Sorc spell at even levels for any spell I want; as there isn't written that the new spell has to be in the Sorc spell list'.


On the other flip of the coin in which nobody has mentioned, what if you can't use two different arrows. What if, got you to use that +5 arrow, but both have to be. In which case there becomes no issue here.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

A "simple" question: if a archer is using manyshot, what will happen if he use differently enhanced arrows?

As an extreme example a +5 arrow and a mundane arrow?

What attack bonus is used to hit the target?

As far as I can see it it is not possible to use arrows with different to hit bonuses in a manyshot attack.

In another thread Wraithstrike say that manyshot is "always" used, that you don't have/can't chose not to use it, but this simple question seem to point out that using it is a choice. One that is almost mandatory, but sometime people can choose differently, especially if hey have a "one of a kind" arrow that must hit and so want to fire it with the attack with the highest BAB.

Just to be clear I was saying it is always on unless you don't want to use it because it was stated that the Cluster shot feat had to be activated, when it has similar wording to manyshot meaning it is always on also.

As to this question I think we have found a loophole in the rules, and it should be FAQ'd.

wraithstrike wrote:

It reads as always being on to me.

It says when "you use a full-attack action..."
It is the same as Manyshot-->"When making a full-attack action with a bow"

If you make a full attack with a bow it activates.

Clustered shot and manyshot are feats tat you decide to use. There is nothing stopping the player from saying "I will always use manyshot unless saying that I will not be using it" but for the character it is a choice. For every feat that is not purely reflexive using it is a choice, they never activate automatically simply because you are making a full attack or another kind of action.

For clustered shot that is even more crucial as it has a specific rule in the feat text: "Benefit: When you use a full-attack action to make multiple ranged weapon attacks against the same opponent, total the damage from all hits before applying that opponent's damage reduction.". That is an advantage but a drawback too. You don' get to see if your second arrow has killed your target and switch to a new one. You only get to see that it has hit, but you get to apply the damage to your target as a lump sum only after you have fired all teh arrows you want to fire against him in that round. Only at that point you get to know what was the effect of the damage you dealt.

Sure, most of the time you will be using feats like those and it will be more speedy to specify when you aren't using them but they aren't always on/automatically on.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

I removed an offensive post and the replies to it. Flag it and move on, folks.


Forcing the use of two same bonus arrows is a bad idea. It introduces meta-knowledge. I don't necessarily know what my arrows are enchanted to do. What happens if I pick up two different arrows off of a corpse and fire them. Do i suddenly find out they have different bonuses when my bow explodes? Probably not. Therefore the easiest way is to roll one, as has been said I know, and add the modifiers for each arrow separately.

Liberty's Edge

with a +5 and a mundane arrow, I'd tell the player to tell me the attack roll for the higher arrow, and I'd subtract 5 in my head to see if the second arrow hit as well. I'd tell him which arrows hit and to roll damage accordingly.

I feel like the magic on each arrow should guide each arrow's flight individually, so I'd just do a quick bit of mental math. It's something that's only going to come up very rarely, so I wouldn't mind taking another 2 seconds at the table that one turn to simulate how I feel like the world should work.


Diego Rossi wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

A "simple" question: if a archer is using manyshot, what will happen if he use differently enhanced arrows?

As an extreme example a +5 arrow and a mundane arrow?

What attack bonus is used to hit the target?

As far as I can see it it is not possible to use arrows with different to hit bonuses in a manyshot attack.

In another thread Wraithstrike say that manyshot is "always" used, that you don't have/can't chose not to use it, but this simple question seem to point out that using it is a choice. One that is almost mandatory, but sometime people can choose differently, especially if hey have a "one of a kind" arrow that must hit and so want to fire it with the attack with the highest BAB.

Just to be clear I was saying it is always on unless you don't want to use it because it was stated that the Cluster shot feat had to be activated, when it has similar wording to manyshot meaning it is always on also.

As to this question I think we have found a loophole in the rules, and it should be FAQ'd.

wraithstrike wrote:

It reads as always being on to me.

It says when "you use a full-attack action..."
It is the same as Manyshot-->"When making a full-attack action with a bow"

If you make a full attack with a bow it activates.

Clustered shot and manyshot are feats tat you decide to use. There is nothing stopping the player from saying "I will always use manyshot unless saying that I will not be using it" but for the character it is a choice. For every feat that is not purely reflexive using it is a choice, they never activate automatically simply because you are making a full attack or another kind of action.

For clustered shot that is even more crucial as it has a specific rule in the feat text: "Benefit: When you use a full-attack action to make multiple ranged weapon attacks against the same opponent, total the damage from all hits before applying that opponent's damage reduction.". That is an advantage...

There is not drawback, and while a player could choose to not use them, there is no reason not to. That is why I was saying they are always on.

As for clustered shot it also specifies the "multiple shots against the same opponent". It does not say the entire full attack has to be against the same opponent.

No matter whether you do the Dr subraction at the beginning or the end it is still the same result.

-X+Y and Y-X will give you the same result.

X=DR reduction.
Y=total damage.

I see what you are saying but as soon as a certain amount of damage is done the opponent still falls over. It is not like the feat will allow him to keep standing just because you are still firing arrows.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No Wraith, the damage is applied after you have made as many attacks (in the round) as you want against that target rolled all your to hit.
You get a count of how many hits you have made, but you don't get to assign the damage until you stop firing against him.

Your way don't follow the RAW of the feat. You total the damage from your hit and apply it with DR reducing it only once, you don't apply the DR only to the first attack and then apply the others without DR.

This is particularly relevant when you use the massive damage rule as the feat say: "Special: If the massive damage optional rule is being used (Core Rulebook 189), that rule applies if the total damage you deal with this feat is equal to or exceeds half the opponent's full normal hit points (minimum 50 points of damage)."

Done your way how you would manage that?
- third hit, the target his above 50% damage, I roll a ST not to die
- fourth hit, it is above 50% damage, I roll again for him to die
- and so on?
Great way to make it more potent.


If the GM is using optional rules that is up to him to figure out.

It seems the devs assumed all the attacks would be against one opponent.

edit:I agree with you about RAW. It just kills immersion for me so I am doubting RAI.

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