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Leadership and CR


Rules Questions


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-9/Krun-Thuul

I saw this on this on the SRD. This caught my eye:

"Krun Thuul’s Leadership score is 12. His cohort is an 8th-level orc cleric. His most loyal followers include 2 orc berserkers, 2 orc shamans, and 4 orc skolls. The rest of his horde consists of 50 mercenary Orc warriors."

All of that together is a CR 9? With Leadership you have to split your money with everything so no one but Krun would be well equipped but still.

Or does the CR go up? By how much?


The remaining bodies are part of the main character's Feats and gear so yes. CR9.

You don't adjust CR for any other feats do you?

BUT looking at the chart, Leadership 12 only grants an 8th level Cohort and 8 1st level fighters.

Anything above that is extra bodies and should increase the CR


Is this a NPC? PC get Leadership not NPC...
So some one goofed.

For CR you count each one add it up.

Liberty's Edge

Leadership is just an overpowered feat. Technically it's CR 9 but in practice it certainly isn't.


Tom S 820 wrote:

Is this a NPC? PC get Leadership not NPC...

So some one goofed.

For CR you count each one add it up.

Wrong. Part of the basic rules of pathfinder is that any rule or ability that applies to PCs also applies to NPCs. NPCs can take any feat that a PC can take. The only rule that applies to NPCs and not to PCs is that Diplomacy doesn't work on PCs.

Speaking generally, the cohorts and followers provided by Leadership are considered part of the main creature's CR. If he took leadership then he didn't get a different feat at level 7 that provides additional power. Their gear all comes out of the standard NPC wealth by level table values -- for the leader ONLY. They probably won't be well equipped.

However the specific NPC may be part of an adventure path or module, I'm not familiar with him, so you'd have to look at that particular thing to see what the overall encounter looks like.


How about when your level 8-9 player has "Leadership feat" and has a cohort of level 5-6. Does this mean that the CR of the encounters should be adjusted accordingly?
What about experience gained? Party of 4 players, 1 cohort receives 2000 experience. => 400 or 500 per player?


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Tom S 820 wrote:

Is this a NPC? PC get Leadership not NPC...

So some one goofed.

For CR you count each one add it up.

Wrong. Part of the basic rules of pathfinder is that any rule or ability that applies to PCs also applies to NPCs. NPCs can take any feat that a PC can take. The only rule that applies to NPCs and not to PCs is that Diplomacy doesn't work on PCs.

Speaking generally, the cohorts and followers provided by Leadership are considered part of the main creature's CR. If he took leadership then he didn't get a different feat at level 7 that provides additional power. Their gear all comes out of the standard NPC wealth by level table values -- for the leader ONLY. They probably won't be well equipped.

However the specific NPC may be part of an adventure path or module, I'm not familiar with him, so you'd have to look at that particular thing to see what the overall encounter looks like.

That sound goods... but in reality you are wrong. Follower/ cohorts/pet ect all add to the CR or a fight.

If have Fighter A level 10 with out leadership he is CR 9.

If I have Fighter B level 10 with Cohort level 8, then it CR 9 and 7 or CR 10.

Lock at this why this I as put both fig on the field you Exp for both not just one.

Same way for pet Druid level 10 with wolf is CR 9 and CR CR 1. Is the Pet stronger that any other CR one yes but the difference is made up in the CR of the Druid.

Would rather face Druid with a pet or one with out.
If just face the pet do get no EXP for the fight cause you did not defeat the druid or do you get the exp for the pet.

Work for summon moster as well if the monster is sommed before the fight the you get exp for the monster. If it summed during the fight it just like casting any other spell.

If cast Summon Monster 2 be for a fight and get small fire elemental CR 1 it tha same fight as if fought a small fire elemental.

Bottom line do not gip you players on exp be fair.

Or say Boss CR 15 has leadership and goon CR 13 who has Leadership and has CR 11 goon who has leadership who has CR 9 goon who has leadership who has leadership and has CR 7 goon who has CR 5 goon. They are also all druids with pets. You fight them all you one want exp to the CR 15 boss and not any of the others...


Rickmeister wrote:

How about when your level 8-9 player has "Leadership feat" and has a cohort of level 5-6. Does this mean that the CR of the encounters should be adjusted accordingly?

That is up to the you as the GM.

What about experience gained? Party of 4 players, 1 cohort receives 2000 experience. => 400 or 500 per player?

Easy answer

Copyed form the SRD

A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.

If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level.


slade867 wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-9/Krun-Thuul

I saw this on this on the SRD. This caught my eye:

"Krun Thuul’s Leadership score is 12. His cohort is an 8th-level orc cleric. His most loyal followers include 2 orc berserkers, 2 orc shamans, and 4 orc skolls. The rest of his horde consists of 50 mercenary Orc warriors."

All of that together is a CR 9? With Leadership you have to split your money with everything so no one but Krun would be well equipped but still.

Or does the CR go up? By how much?

The easy answer is who ever put it or made this NPC up dose not understand Leadership, CR system. or just brain farted. We all do that form time to time.

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