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Eidolon Claws Question


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

This is from the rulebook about the Summoner's Eidolon's Claws evolution

An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the end of its limbs, giving it two claw attacks. These attacks are primary attacks. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs evolution to take this evolution. This evolution can only be applied to the limbs (legs) evolution once

My question is, with a level 1 biped Eidolon-

1. Can It place its claws (which it gets free) on its legs rather than its arms?
2. If I use its arms to hold a sword, can I use those claws as secondary natural attacks as per the rules for combining manufactured and natural weapons?

It just occurred to me that possibly you weren't allowed to have claws on your legs and attack with them, meaning I could have them on the legs and have them be decorative but I'd need a 2nd set of arms to attack with my weapon AND with claws.

Cheers!

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

Quote:
1. Can It place its claws (which it gets free) on its legs rather than its arms?

Its not specifically allowed and many DM's will call it munchkining cheese/illegal. I do not believe its the intent for the claws to go on the feet: you're busy standing on those.

Quote:


2. If I use its arms to hold a sword, can I use those claws as secondary natural attacks as per the rules for combining manufactured and natural weapons?

If you find a way to get extra limbs the rules for mixing natural and unarmed attacks are under natural attacks. You attack with your weapon normally and your natural weapons all become secondary.(you take a -5 to attack and only deal half your strength bonus in damage)

Shadow Lodge

Hmm understood. Assuming I cannot put my claws on legs, then can I ask this-

1. Can I have claws on my arms and use those arms to wield a sword and just not use the claws?
2. Biped gets claws for free. Can I just drop them/ignore them?

Essentially, I want my level 1 biped Eidolon to wield a sword without needing to spend 2 points to get an extra set of arms to wield it, with my first set using the claws.

Scarab Sages

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
1. Can It place its claws (which it gets free) on its legs rather than its arms?
Its not specifically allowed and many DM's will call it munchkining cheese/illegal. I do not believe its the intent for the claws to go on the feet: you're busy standing on those.

Would you have the same opinion if I had the hooves evolution?

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

Artanthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
1. Can It place its claws (which it gets free) on its legs rather than its arms?
Its not specifically allowed and many DM's will call it munchkining cheese/illegal. I do not believe its the intent for the claws to go on the feet: you're busy standing on those.
Would you have the same opinion if I had the hooves evolution?

Only if you're trying to get in 4 kicks. Its not written anywhere but i don't think its that much of an extrapolation from the vast majority of monsters to say that you have to stand on two limbs to use the rest of them: its why a tiger or lion can't claw you 4 times without using rake.

Scarab Sages

Arkwright wrote:

Hmm understood. Assuming I cannot put my claws on legs, then can I ask this-

1. Can I have claws on my arms and use those arms to wield a sword and just not use the claws?
2. Biped gets claws for free. Can I just drop them/ignore them?

Essentially, I want my level 1 biped Eidolon to wield a sword without needing to spend 2 points to get an extra set of arms to wield it, with my first set using the claws.

1. Yes. You are not forced to use your claws.

2. Unfortunatly, you are stuck with them unless you spend an evolution point on Slam or Hooves.

Scarab Sages

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Only if you're trying to get in 4 kicks. Its not written anywhere but i don't think its that much of an extrapolation from the vast majority of monsters to say that you have to stand on two limbs to use the rest of them: its why a tiger or lion can't claw you 4 times without using rake.

We are talking a biped using a secondary attack form attached to it's legs.

If we were talking Quads, eidolons are specifically permitted claws on 1 pair of legs and hooves on 1 pair of legs.

The issue at first level is number of attacks; you cannot start with both claws and hooves.

Shadow Lodge

So.... consensus is that I can wield my sword in a clawed arm and just forfeit claws as a natural attack?

Shadow Lodge

And again, given this statement:

"This evolution can only be applied to the limbs (legs) evolution once"

I think one can definitely put it on an Eidolon's legs and can maybe even use them to attack as well

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter 2014

Arkwright wrote:

And again, given this statement:

"This evolution can only be applied to the limbs (legs) evolution once"

I think one can definitely put it on an Eidolon's legs and can maybe even use them to attack as well

Its for a quadruped. You put hooves on the front pair and use them to attack.

Dark Archive

I think your failing to remember that we can design the eidolon unlike anything we make have been exposed to in the real world. I was happy to put claws on the biped feet for a while and attack with them that way. Than it could hold things like a wand or shield in hand or use the arms for the slam attack
Examples:
Kangaroo
Claws on the knees(feet) and/or elbows(hands) striking
Raptor
Bullet jumping
Dangling feat from a flyer
Body forms out of c'thulu that not only would damage your brain to behold but are impossible to even read a description of without fainting in front of your screen


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
1. Can It place its claws (which it gets free) on its legs rather than its arms?

Its not specifically allowed and many DM's will call it munchkining cheese/illegal. I do not believe its the intent for the claws to go on the feet: you're busy standing on those.

Quote:


2. If I use its arms to hold a sword, can I use those claws as secondary natural attacks as per the rules for combining manufactured and natural weapons?

If you find a way to get extra limbs the rules for mixing natural and unarmed attacks are under natural attacks. You attack with your weapon normally and your natural weapons all become secondary.(you take a -5 to attack and only deal half your strength bonus in damage)

I disagree completely. It IS specifically allowed.

You get claws as a free evolution, and you are allowed to apply claws to legs up to once. There are no other restrictions. If you personally think there should be further restrictions, that's up to you but it is not the RAW.
Standing on feet doesn't mean you can't attack with them (see previous examples of raptor/kangaroo etc)
But the important part is that the RULES say you CAN. If it was meant to only be allowed for Quadrupeds, it would be mentioned as such like the other quadruped specific evolutions. If it was meant to only be used if you already had claws on arms, then that too would be mentioned.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
1. Can It place its claws (which it gets free) on its legs rather than its arms?
Its not specifically allowed and many DM's will call it munchkining cheese/illegal. I do not believe its the intent for the claws to go on the feet: you're busy standing on those.
Would you have the same opinion if I had the hooves evolution?
Only if you're trying to get in 4 kicks. Its not written anywhere but i don't think its that much of an extrapolation from the vast majority of monsters to say that you have to stand on two limbs to use the rest of them: its why a tiger or lion can't claw you 4 times without using rake.

When I had the same doubt my player running a summoner pointed me in teh direction of the velociraptor.

Bipedal, 2 talon attacks.

Shadow Lodge

Thanks, guys :)


To add my two cents. Yes, as it states, you can put claws on feet/legs. Only one pair though.

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