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Asmodeus dislikes your attitude


Pathfinder Campaign Setting General Discussion

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So today one of my players, an Chelish inquisitor of Asmodeus, makes the following comment in the following context.

The party's rogue have just finished snooping around in a place of interest, and as they ponder their next actions the inquisitor makes the following statement:

"We need to better organize our ressources. Lorastine (the rogue) should have had the invisibility potion, in case things went sour. It wont be long until I can turn invisible, but as I said, Lorastine should have it"

I decided this was a pretty arrogant and entitled statement by the character, despite the fact that it was probably just a brainfart on behalf of the player. Nevertheless, it was said in character, so I instantly grabbed it, seeing the opportunity to poke the inquisitor a bit and make him understand the forces he is dealing with. The next time they were in a fight, the inquisitor called on Asmodeus, but immediately felt a pang of pain and a heard a muffled echo of himself, claiming that soon he'd have the power to turn invisble. He then proceeded to try to cast spells, but his prayers were not answered. Only once the battle was over and he was not under duress was he able to cast the light spell, and only then after a full round of prayer, rather than a standard action's worth.

This is my way of showing that the prideful asmodeus does not approve of his attitude. That the Inquisitor should not take the boons of Asmodeus for granted.

Now I've decided to let the player suffer under this effect he can appease Asmodeus again. I don't want it to be a grand undertaking, because I think the Inquisitor only did Asmodeus a small slight.

So I was wondering: Do you guys have any ideas of what I could have the inquisitor do, to appease his disdainful god? I don't want it to be a quest, where I railroad him to a specific solution and if he comes up with a way on his own, then that'd be awesome. Still, I'd love to have some ideas ready that I could use next gamesession, that he may show he appreciated the miracles of Asmodeus.

The players are currently in Magnimar...

XXSPOILERSXX

...and are soon to be on their way to the belltower in the shadow. Any ideas of what he could do?

Thanks in advance

-Nearyn


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I ran a game a while ago where the party's two clerics and paladin got really pissed at the church and converted to Asmodeus. The condition for spells of 2-3rd level was that they had to set up a shrine in secret in any town that they visited and get a local to swear he would uphold the shrine in secret by sprinkling it in blood - not his own. It is amazing what people will do for healing ya know?

Anyway, they had to do that all the time just to have spells at all in my game. It might be a decent place to start for repentance.


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A good old ritualistic sacrifice to appease the evil god sounds right to me. Capture an enemy in battle, set up an alter, light a few candles, rub down the sacrifice in some unholy oils, spill his blood with an atheme and pray until asmodeus takes the offering. The whole thing should IMO take between 1 and 6 hours and cost an average of 1 to 2 hundred gold for all the ingredients. After its completed id say he's all good with his sadistic evil god


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Joegoat wrote:
A good old ritualistic sacrifice to appease the evil god sounds right to me. Capture an enemy in battle, set up an alter, light a few candles, rub down the sacrifice in some unholy oils, spill his blood with an atheme and pray until asmodeus takes the offering. The whole thing should IMO take between 1 and 6 hours and cost an average of 1 to 2 hundred gold for all the ingredients. After its completed id say he's all good with his sadistic evil god

I don't know. The point wasn't that the character wasn't evil enough. It was that he was too prideful in relation to the god, who wants him to cower a little more.

I like the idea of walking on hot coals or crawling under an arch or something.

Osirion

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A devotee of Asmodeus behaving in a confident leaderly take-charge manner? Seems to me like Asmodeus would be *pleased* at his attitude...

He's a diety associated with pride, after all, and many Chelish NPCs seem to be excessively prideful (without getting smited for it). Just as it's okay for a devotee of the goddess of lust (Calistria) to be lustful, or devotees of the god of drunken revelry (Cayden) to engage in some drunken revelry, I'd say that a worshippers of the god of pride acting prideful, overbearing and / or overconfident is *exactly* appropriate.


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So an inquisitor of Asmodeus is making tactical suggestions and telling other players what they should be doing and Asmodeus has a problem with this or does he have a problem with his inquisitor having pride in his abilities? I suppose if you're the god of pride you need to have followers that are meek and humble. Because nothings says "Asmodean" like meek and humble.


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ThatEvilGuy wrote:
So an inquisitor of Asmodeus is making tactical suggestions and telling other players what they should be doing and Asmodeus has a problem with this or does he have a problem with his inquisitor having pride in his abilities? I suppose if you're the god of pride you need to have followers that are meek and humble. Because nothings says "Asmodean" like meek and humble.

I think the problem was that the player was assuming he would make certain gains in power, assuming Asmodeus would do things for him.

Honestly, I agree that followers of the dark god should be prideful, because the dark god likes a hands off approach to evil whenever possible, but the GM isn't playing it that way. The GM is playing the evil god as being especially pissy about his followers presuming on what he is going to do, and that's another fine way of running it.

The evil worshiper can crap on people all he wants, but don't overlook the importance of his god.

Osirion

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I'm not sure a penalty is in order here. Asmodeus is a lawful being, and putting the group before the individual fits his ethos. Further, the evil dieties definitely want people to know that their followers get power. Go ahead, brag about the spells and other benfits you get. Spread the word. That's the real attraction to worshipping an evil diety, after all. You sell your soul into eternal damnation so that you can do things like turn invisible and smite anyone you like with the evil power granted by Asmodeus. Perhaps the player should have said, "I don't need this. The might of Asmodeus flows through me! His power can easily duplicate that of a simple magic potion. Let Lorastine use it instead. He is bereft of such gifts. Besides, it would make achieving my goals, and Asmodeus' glory, that much harder if he was caught." Regardless of the wording, I think evil dieties have thick skins and expect that some of their followers don't like what they have to do. That's all right, as long as they obey and do it anyway.


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If anything I think the Inquisitor of Asmodeus should be getting the back of Asmodeus's hand for not bragging enough about what Asmodeus will grant him. Instead of "It won't be long until I can turn invisible" he should have said "For soon the great and powerful Asmodeus will grant upon me the boon of invisibility, and due to his great powers I shall no longer need puny potions, so let the rogue have it."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm kind of confused as to why the character is being punished by Asmodeus. In my opinion, the inquisitor was well within his right to bring up the need to be more efficient with the allocation of their resources. In fact, that seems to fit the Lawful aspect of Asmodeus. His statement really to me was just to assure that when adventuring, the group takes the most ordered and efficient way of doing it.

Secondly, seems like a harsh punishment for something as innocuous as saying "We should be more prepared next time." I don't see it as being prideful or even taking his deity for granted. Actually I see it as the opposite, telling the group that his patron's boons can only do so much and therefore, they should better allocate resources. At that point, I can see the case being made that his faith in Asmodeus isn't great enough and thus, he has slighted his god. But even then, I think that might be stretching it. I think that you should let it go.

Imagine a similar scenario, where a cleric of healing says, "We should gather some healing potions for this adventure, as my abilities to heal are limited. I will be able to heal more soon, but in the meantime, we should have more potions." Is he being prideful? Or disdainful of his deity? Should he be punished? Or, is he simply being pragmatic about the dangers ahead?

Osirion

With different wording, I could *totally* see Asmodeus getting pissy about it.

If he'd said something like, 'Asmodeus has failed to provide me with the ability to turn invisible yet, but I will force him to so empower me shortly, so I don't need the potion.' I could see Asmodeus being a bit peeved. (On the other hand, that's how some real world religions have worked, with priests flat out *ordering* their gods to answer their boons...)


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You know, I'm with you here, Nearyn, I like that you gave Asmodeus a little personality. It may not be for everyone, but I love that you are making this Golarion god your own.


hellacious huni wrote:
You know, I'm with you here, Nearyn, I like that you gave Asmodeus a little personality. It may not be for everyone, but I love that you are making this Golarion god your own.

I actually didn't realize it was a Golarion god. I thought he was just talking about the old pencil sketch of the devil from the 1e MM. That's who I was talking about anyway.


cranewings wrote:
hellacious huni wrote:
You know, I'm with you here, Nearyn, I like that you gave Asmodeus a little personality. It may not be for everyone, but I love that you are making this Golarion god your own.
I actually didn't realize it was a Golarion god. I thought he was just talking about the old pencil sketch of the devil from the 1e MM. That's who I was talking about anyway.

Well, I gathered he was speaking specifically of the Golarion god when he mentioned it was a Chelish Inquisitor.


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I rather like OP's anecdote. I was expecting a "my players got pissy that I took something away" thread, but this is good. I like roleplay.

OP, keep in mind that a good deity will shape his servants into good and loyal slaves. Building a shrine (maybe an expensive one) or an Atonement spell (with sacrifice) would suffice "as a reminder", and the PC will respect his relationship with his deity more. Well done.

If you really want to turn it up now, or at some point in the future, have a servant or avatar of Asmodeus appear, and compel the PC to beg to show his loyalty to his god. Thinking he will be given a quest, the PC may indeed beg. Once he begs, the avatar may command him "then fall on your sword". If the PC shows he's willing to DIE for Asmodeus on command, he may be given a quest with a potentially great reward.

Idea comes from Flash Gordon:
http://www.hark.com/clips/wytxlzgbql-fall-on-your-sword

(Prince Thul did not get a reward for falling on HIS sword.)

But all of this is done (of course) in the interest of fun and creating a rich gaming world for your players.


The 1st ed MM is how I still imagine the old boy looking. Asmodeus thinks the new, hip, edgy gods look like fools.


Me too, Ciaran.

Keep in mind that Asmodeus is the deity of Evil on what, at least THREE campaign worlds that we know of? That's a lot of Evil to keep track of. Add-in the fact that he's a True God who plays his arch-devil lords off against one another and you've got one bad mo-fo.

Sczarni

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I think you've done enough.


To me this just seems to be the reverse of the age old case of the Paladin being picked on for not being lawful good enough.

Besides being inappropriately applied, since Inquisitors are supposed to have more leeway than Clerics and Paladins, it's not exactly what I'd call fun loosing your abilities at the whims of the GM.


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This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lastoth wrote:
This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.

Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.

However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".

I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.


I generally assume Gods don't pay too much attention to specific followers until they actually come calling for a Miracle or something.

I agree with the players that say this would put them off playing divine casters in your campaign.


I think Asmodeus would have been proud, not angry.


Oh... Eek. I am really, reeaaahhheeaaaallly truly and firmly in the camp of everyone that says 'don't do anything'. If it was a different god I would maybe say do something. Maybe. Still probably not, though. For one thing, I guess I don't understand the problem with what he said. He was giving constructive advice, and whether or not it was the character or the player that had a brain-fart, it affected the players, so it should be handled in-character.

Asmodeus's whole dig is that he's lawful, and respects contracts. Oftentimes inquisitors, clerics, etc are in a sort of contract with Asmodeus. Give me powers, and I will give you my soul. His only other dig is that he's prideful, and he expects his worshipers to be prideful too. He expects them to flatter him, but takes it with a grain of salt for what it is, pure flattery.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I guess where you're coming from can be argued (there is plenty of logic to it), but I did do a bit of a double take when you said Asmodeus was upset about his actions - I thought, as others have expressed, that what he was doing was actually in line with Asmodeus' doctrine. It seems the whole situation in Cheliax (i.e., everyone claiming that Hell serves Cheliax) would be difficult to have if Asmodeus was as touchy about his followers making demand from him as you've interpreted him to be.

That being said, the way you've read into it seems perfectly fine too. I wouldn't do anymore than you've already done though for fear of frustrating your player. To lose your class abilities, the things your character is supposed to be able to do, over an OoC slip of the tongue is a bit harsh. If your player is cool with it for now, super, but I really wouldn't push that sort of thing and would allow it to resolve quickly.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Asmodeus dislikes your attitude and you should feel bad


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LoreKeeper wrote:

Asmodeus dislikes your attitude and you should feel bad

:O

Osirion

Odraude wrote:

Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.

However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".

I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.

That sounds like the most asinine GM on the planet. I wish I could say so to his or her face, too (online writing is too detached for something that deserves a good punch in the face). Your Paladin did exactly what was proper for a lawful and good being to do. Clearly the GM had no idea what is appropriate behavior and furthermore is a moron for being so far off base. Hopefully you're not still playing with that group, or at least have a different GM.


Odraude wrote:
Lastoth wrote:
This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.

Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.

However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".

I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.

Your GM is a jerk, and an idiot.


Odraude wrote:
Lastoth wrote:
This move would tell me to never play a divine caster while you DM because I would be afraid you'd try to grasp for ways to undermine my character.

Indeed. This reminds me of a game that caused me to stop playing divine characters. I had a paladin with a group that was taking on a devil worshiping cleric. We defeated him and foiled his plan and the cleric begged and pleaded for mercy. I obliged and though I did restrain him so he could be sent to the kingdom's judicial system, I did not harm him and in fact, I tended his wounds.

However, the skies opened up and an angel came down before me and with quite a bit of disdain, told me my god disapproved of showing evil mercy and stripped me of all of my powers. Mind you, I have shown mercy to all evil doers we had come across and my cohort was even an ex-demon worshiper I turned to good. My god (Pelor) also preached mercy. Needless to say, I was displeased. Worse still was the fact that now, the angel wanted to put my paladin on trial, penalty of death for allowing a diabolist to live. So, my paladin was taken to heaven and tried and sent to Hell to, as my GM so eloquently put it, "fraternize with the devils I love so much".

I don't play paladins anymore because of this. Don't make the same mistake.

LOL that's hot.


Little Inquisitor Fu-Fu, hopping through the forest, picking up the demons and bopping them on the head. And down came the EEEEEEVIL devil, and HE said, Little Inquisitor Fu-Fu, I don't like your attitude...


I smell a control freak DM.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Don't arbitrarily punish divine characters.


Paladins can't have nice things, and apparently the evil guys can't either now.


So far you are the person in the wrong here. I'm trying to figure out what the inquisitor did wrong here. Asmodeus is the God of Sin, Pride is a sin. I'd start demanding he become a little more sinful if he wanted to see those new spells. Seriously, I'd apologize to your player and reward him for your mistake.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

The character seemed to be acting, more or less, exactly like many of the Asmodeus worshiping Chelish Nobles.
There are just too many examples to list to let you know this to be true.
Maybe, you say Asmodeus was just trolling the PC, because the situation seemed to call for a reward, not a punishment.


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8 Red Wizards wrote:
So far you are the person in the wrong here. I'm trying to figure out what the inquisitor did wrong here. Asmodeus is the God of Sin, Pride is a sin. I'd start demanding he become a little more sinful if he wanted to see those new spells. Seriously, I'd apologize to your player and reward him for your mistake.

I want to tell you a little story of my own superdickery. This story takes place about 5 years ago in a little apartment I used to have for a player group numbering about 12.

Why I was salty:
The group exploded. Friends invited friends without asking and me hating to put a wet blanket on a hot party, decided to let them stay. Being a paramedic, I had a lot of downtime at work I could use to write games, so I generated a boat load of material and ran this game like a boss. After about a month and a half, and the party was starting to hit 4th level (at least a few people) I started to detect the stink of cheating. I already new one girl rolled natural 20s unless I sat next to her, and her boyfriend liked to lie about rules unless I looked them up myself, and some of these people were her friends, so I started looking for it. Sure enough it was there.

The average HP total for the 3rd level characters was... 30. The druid with the +2 Con bonus managed 32 HP. The third level wizard with the +2 Con and the Toad Familiar managed a 22. Not bad in 3.5. I was starting to get a little salty, so the kids gloves came off (I asked everyone to adjust their HP total to average rounded up, full first HD, and 10 characters lost a total of 60+ HP. This includes the fact that honest guys rogue gained 11 because of how low he rolled).

So here comes the game:

The party meets a guy named "Lord Cupwulf." Cupwulf is the lord of a city on the boarder of another kingdom. He is planning a raid on a monastery in the other kingdom to retrieve the Rod of Rulership. The monastery worships the same god as he does, but that isn't going to stop him. He asks the party to come and help him.

Well, the party leaves to deliberate on this. They ask me out of character, because the party includes two clerics AND a paladin of this god, what normally happens. I told them exactly this: "Nobles of the two kingdoms and the people worship the same god. The monastery is rich and this isn't unheard of. Generally speaking, when the walls of another civilized land are breached, the defenders will surrender and tribute will be paid."

So the party goes along with it. Honest guy's rogue decides this is really, really stupid so he tells the party he is going ahead. He gets to the monastery, tells them what is happening, and so they just give him the rod so he can protect it. He takes the rod to a druid they met first game and the druid destroys it.

The gnome wizard in the party does some digging, and he finds out Cupwulf's plan. He only has some 1000 knights riding with him, and against a fortified monastery with 5000+ men and women inside, there is literally no way they could win. He had a plan though. A secret weapon. In this low magic, E8 world, Cupwulf's wizard taught him to read spell scrolls and he had a single 10d6 lightning bolt in his back pocket he was going to use to open the gate.

It was winter. If the party stopped his attack on the monastery, he would have to wait a season. All they had to do was pour some water on his scroll or get it in the snow and he would have been screwed and had to go home, but for some MAGICAL reason, the gnome didn't tell anyone about it. He wasn't trying to make a problem. He just didn't get the significance of it or think it was worth mentioning and I didn't bother prodding him.

The party meets up with another warband. Honest guy made a new character, one of Cupwulf's cronies, a 7th level Chaotic Evil Barbarian Archer named "Karn the Betrayer." Well, with the PCs, the warband, and all the knights, Cupwulf rides right up to the gates, blows them open with the lightning bolt (to the PC group's surprise) and after a short fight with the 300 knights defending the monastery, receives their surrender.

Well, the men start looking for the Rod of Rulership, only to learn the little bastard Tony Thornberry made off with it close to a week ago. They knew the halfling was associated with the party, and Cupwulf says loudly enough that one PC overheard it, "These people must have been in on it or known something. Round them up. We can't go after the halfling with all these men on our tails. Kill all the prisoners and bring me the Abbot as a hostage."

So the party gets while the getting is good, fleeing the scene while Cupwulf brutally kills all the knights.

In the mean time, Karn and his warband go to the temple, kill the priest and do their worst to the nuns. After setting the temple ablaze, Karn emerges yelling to Crom, flames billowing behind him, the head of the priest held to the moon.

As the party ran, I awarded no XP for a job badly done AND stripped the paladin and the two clerics of their powers for failing to have the wisdom to foresee what would happen and stopping it.

The only people I play with now from that group are the people who thought that it was really, kind of funny.

_____________________________________________________________________

My story here ends with a point. The OP was asking for ideas on what to do next; he wasn't asking if he was in the wrong any more than I am.

I don't care. I doubt the OP does either.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

What?


Well, sounds like you have fun jerking players around. I suppose if they like it, more power to you.


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I still think the GM is a jerk, but to answer the OP's question which CW has made a legit point with in his last post, ask the GM, because he is so far off from how many of us run our games that nothing we say will most likely matter.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I don't think the DM is a jerk, just confused.
We all make mistakes.


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I think the perceived slight on Asmodeus was barely there if at all, Asmodeus as an immortal being with a great deal of foresight will recognize that as long as the inquisitor serves him and ends up in hell there is really no need to punish him unless it damages the faith of Asmodeus in some meaningful way. Inquisitors are supposedly allowed a bit more leeway than other clergy members, that he might pay the price after the inquisitor is dead is of no concern now. Also do not abuse the divine retribution card too much, if you are punishing the faithful it stands to reason that you also intervene to aid them sometimes, why do gods allow things to happen at all to their priests and churches /

I would definately not punish him more, while Asmodeus might be inclined to disagree with his faithful assuming he serves them, the fact that the inquisitor was being watched at all is because he is impressed.
I'd send him a servitor like an imp as a reward tos how that Asmodeus can be good to him as well, ofcourse the imp is ultimately loyal to hell and Asmodeus (and reports to hell incase he strays)which you might hint at in a subtle manner on occasion. Punishment/reward, this way the player will actually enjoy the 'attention' he gets and will take care not to offend Asmodeus anymore.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I don't think the DM is a jerk, just confused.

We all make mistakes.

Maybe so. I will give him the benefit of the doubt of being new. That is the only way I can explain embracing your deity's portfolio getting you punished.


Book of Job?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Misunderstanding DM is misunderstanding.


cranewings wrote:
Book of Job?

Only if the above situation somehow involved Asmodeus and Cayden having a bet over the inquisitors response.


So, Asmodeus, the god of tyranny, pride and contracts, get upset because his priest is bossy with his group and does not doubt the power of his god, proudly proclaiming that mighty Asmodeus will provide for his own, and thus he need no trinkets and baubles?

Asmodeus expects flattery, but also that his followers adhere to his dogma, and represents his portfolios.


Don't listen to the naysayers, Nearyn. I seem to recall that something exactly like this happened to Moses in the desert. He struck a stone with his staff, and water poured forth so the Israelites could drink. Because HE took credit for it, God punished him.

You have precedent.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Let's walk away from real world religion. It will get all sorts of ugly, real fast.


Yeah, I can't see what Asmodeus wouldn't like about this guy. Asmodeus is the god of pride and contracts and you think the Inquisitor has transgressed by being prideful and assuming his deal with his god is going to go as planned (contracted?).

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