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We scratched your back, you scratch ours


Pathfinder Online


Dear Goblinworks & Paizo,

You asked for 50,000 dollars. Tall order. We gave you something closer to 300,000 dollars. The fans were VERY good to you. And as a fan, I don't think we should have to "pay to play" as they say.

I'll buy the game. I'll buy expansions. Game companies did business like this for a long time, even with the costs of maintaining the game- And they profited.

I think in the wake of such generosity you should lay off our wallets, we have enough bills to pay. Charge whatever you want for the game, but after this I don't think we should pay a cent more.

My two cents.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

4 people marked this as a favorite.

You can play without paying. You just can't level. Training time costs money. Already confirmed, per the blog. Of course, you can buy training time with in game money, so if you grind like a madman...

Shadow Lodge

There's already free-to-play options intended to be available.

Aaaand ninja'd.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber

Customer entitlement is a funny thing.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Orthos wrote:

There's already free-to-play options intended to be available.

Aaaand ninja'd.

By a character with dex 7 ;)

Shadow Lodge

Alexander_Damocles wrote:
Orthos wrote:

There's already free-to-play options intended to be available.

Aaaand ninja'd.

By a character with dex 7 ;)

I've Wis 8, I probably bombed my perception ;)

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Orthos wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:
Orthos wrote:

There's already free-to-play options intended to be available.

Aaaand ninja'd.

By a character with dex 7 ;)
I've Wis 8, I probably bombed my perception ;)

Wis 7. Yeah. That was a *fuuuuun* first level.

"What is your AC at the moment?"
".....Two."

Goblinworks Executive Founder

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Let's look at what we, the donors, are actually entitled to:
An exclusive long video of the final Technology Demo.
A listing in a Special Thanks section of the Goblinworks website as well as in the release of the Pathfinder Online game.
Access to the PDF of the Thornkeep book.
Membership in the Goblin Squad.
A printed copy of the Thornkeep book (possibly autographed by author Rich Baker and members of the Goblinworks team)
A poster of the Thornkeep cover art by artist Wayne Reynolds
A special Goblinworks T-shirt.
A certificate suitable for framing.
a special Founder icon on the Goblinworks messageboards.
A Goblinworks Founder challenge coin
A gorgeous granite plaque with stand
A leather messenger bag with an embossed Goblinworks logo
A nifty e-gadget portfolio for your tablet.
A special Executive Founder icon on the Goblinworks messageboards.
Participation in the alpha playtest.
A unique chance to play the technology demo.
Lunch with members of the Goblinworks staff.
Five guests for a pathfinder session with a minor celebrity.
(Depending on how much you paid.)

Nope, nothing in there about getting a product that is likely to cost an order of magnitude more than was raised. Take your sense of entitlement and go home, or try to become at least a minimally productive member of the community.

Shadow Lodge

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Take your sense of entitlement and go home, or try to become at least a minimally productive member of the community.

+1

Goblinworks Founder

Arrogant customer always thinks she is right.

Goblin Squad Member

Plenty of backscratching in that list already, I agree.

We sure wish we could have pledged more than we did, would have loved the printed flip mats. Ah well! We'll have to settle for "pledging" in the future by buying the game and such. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

*Goblin Scratches your back with a Dog Cutter*

Goblin Squad Member

The total development for a modern MMO is something on the order of tens of millions of dollars and higher. Lets say that its 30 million - which is not unreasonable in this day and age. Lets also say we make 300K before the day is out. (makes for easier math)

That's 1% of the development costs. It would be more appropriate to ask for a 1% discount. That's. erm... hmm...

Nineteen cents off a 19.99 monthly fee.

Yup. Drop in the bucket :)

Goblin Squad Member

I think he meant "don't raise funds to develop the game via kickstarter" not "make the game with the 300k you have there".

If only pledging wasn't compulsory.

Shadow Lodge

Steve Geddes wrote:
I think he meant "don't raise funds to develop the game via kickstarter" not "make the game with the 300k you have there".

Neither really, what he said was "We gave you a bunch of money. Now make the game free-to-play after initial purchase."

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, but he also said

"I think in the wake of such generosity you should lay off our wallets, we have enough bills to pay. Charge whatever you want for the game, but after this I don't think we should pay a cent more."

Granted I'm struggling to make full sense of his op, so you may well be right. I could easily have misunderstood.

Goblin Squad Member

Those are both saying the same thing.

Goblin Squad Member

The "this" in "but after this" is "buying the game and expansions". Orthos has it right.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
The "this" in "but after this" is "buying the game and expansions". Orthos has it right.

You could well be right

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Steve Geddes wrote:
You could well be right

Wouldn't surprise me a bit! *grins*

But even then, I totally disagree. I think their current plan makes perfect sense, and I have no interest whatsoever in encouraging them to turn PFO into a free-to-play only title, like Guild Wars.

Shadow Lodge

Steve Geddes wrote:
I could easily have misunderstood.

s'OK. It happens to the best of us. =)


Doctor Carrion wrote:

I don't think we should pay a cent more.

My two cents.

Amusement.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Someone doesn't grok how Kickstarter works...

Goblin Squad Member

I personally think a subscription model would help keeping the cities active/viable as only paying players would keep their homes and keeps and we will be constantly "renting" server-space.


I am a guy who didn't follow the financial side of things too well, and didn't donate! I just posited this idea to get the discussion going, because of course there are people who know more than I.

I didn't assert a demand, I posed an idea. The bulk of you, most of you less ignorant on the dev process than I, disagreed with me. After reading your posts, I'm seeing that I was likely wrong.

But the personal attacks got me all :-/

Goblin Squad Member

Pointless thread is pointless?

Osirion

Yes. Senseless post is senseless. (Also a copout, I should think) But, pointless.

Goblin Squad Member

Alexander_Damocles wrote:
You can play without paying. You just can't level. Training time costs money. Already confirmed, per the blog. Of course, you can buy training time with in game money, so if you grind like a madman...

where is the correct place to suggest a multi step system?

free: no level up
discount: NPC levels
standard: PC levels
premium: Prestige Class levels

Goblin Squad Member

DropBearHunter wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:
You can play without paying. You just can't level. Training time costs money. Already confirmed, per the blog. Of course, you can buy training time with in game money, so if you grind like a madman...

where is the correct place to suggest a multi step system?

free: no level up
discount: NPC levels
standard: PC levels
premium: Prestige Class levels

what would an NPC level even be in this skills system that is being used? Odds are with the limited information on what we know, things like HP, BAB etc... are most likely not going to be tied to "class levels", as they do not intend for say a 20 wiz/20 barbarian, to have 3x more HP than a pure 20 wiz. At least I think they wouldn't otherwise their comment that a 20/20/20/20 will not be more powerful than a single 20, only more versatile, comment was a direct lie. As overall the concepts in the P&P for NPC classes, is more or less is a class that gets normal benefits (IE HP BAB etc... from a class level, minus more or less the actual special abilities that a PC class would have.


DropBearHunter wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:
You can play without paying. You just can't level. Training time costs money. Already confirmed, per the blog. Of course, you can buy training time with in game money, so if you grind like a madman...

where is the correct place to suggest a multi step system?

free: no level up
discount: NPC levels
standard: PC levels
premium: Prestige Class levels

Seems a mite pay-2-win, that. Though, then again the whole thing would be if there aren't enough alternate means of attaining in-game power beyond level alone.

If I can be a powerful character in some sense (wealth, influence, etc.)without paying, and acquire such power at a low level, then it's fine by me. If not, what's the point of giving free players PC classes at all? 's not like they'd be able to do anything your above-average commoner NPC couldn't.

Dunno about all you gents, but I am not a wealthy man, only being able to afford the oh-so-small kickstarter donation of $5. It would be neat if I were able to fully enjoy this game without destroying my wallet, or watching the more financially endowed surpass me with no means of catching up.


Doctor Carrion wrote:

I am a guy who didn't follow the financial side of things too well, and didn't donate! I just posited this idea to get the discussion going, because of course there are people who know more than I.

I didn't assert a demand, I posed an idea. The bulk of you, most of you less ignorant on the dev process than I, disagreed with me. After reading your posts, I'm seeing that I was likely wrong.

But the personal attacks got me all :-/

You worded it in an aggressive manner though, and I assumed like many others that you paid due to usage of "I" and "we" during your initial post.

Had you said those that paid should have to pay because...., and post it more as a question then I think the replies would have been different.

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah there is an underlying humor in these posts: mischievous?! That said pricing is serious business.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Doctor Carrion wrote:

I am a guy who didn't follow the financial side of things too well, and didn't donate! I just posited this idea to get the discussion going, because of course there are people who know more than I.

I didn't assert a demand, I posed an idea. The bulk of you, most of you less ignorant on the dev process than I, disagreed with me. After reading your posts, I'm seeing that I was likely wrong.

But the personal attacks got me all :-/

you didn't donate...

but you said "We" raised 300k and want everything now for free!

/confused

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

You guys probably aren't used to them on this forum, but I smell a Troll. With a particularly strong carrion stench. Just throw some dirt over it, and walk away.

Goblin Squad Member

Continual development and infrastructure costs are not free. Goblinworks cannot be reliant on box costs to cover these costs otherwise Pathfinder Online is going to crash and burn very quickly.

Goblin Squad Member

Wow. Just....wow.

I hope for the sake of humanity that the OP is just a troll and not being serious.


This may be the worst thread on these forums. For more than one reason, and not only for the ones pointed out already.

Sad day.

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